Been arressted - am I perverting the course of justice?
Discussion
Hi Guys
I do not like it when threads are started and not updated. Although my particular case is not resolved as yet, I would like to update.
Ok, the last time I posted I believe I was in the process of seeking legal advice. A chap I know through my work is a criminal lawyer for a very well regarded London law firm. I spoke with him and he invited me into their offices as he believed a colleague of his would be an ideal person to deal with it for me.
I had a meeting with both lawyers going back quite a while (just after my last post on here). I agreed that they would deal with the case.
I provided them with screen shots of all the multimedia messages that haven been sent between and my ex going back a long time.
My first bail date was the 14/04 and this was put back a couple of weeks and has once again been put back. It is now set for the 21st and this will not changed.
The reason for the bail date being changed is any offence of a domestic nature requires the Police to hand the case over to the CPS.
I have spoken with the Police a few times as they have been very good in keeping me in the loop as to what is going on.
Likewise my legal team have been fantastic. A family lawyer from the firm has been dealing with my ex and as of last week I have been seeing my daughter again on a very regular basis
This alone, although costly is worth every penny.
My lawyer requested the interview tape from the Police to which it has been released which I believe is quite rare. The Police do not have to release the tape and I have been informed that they have only done this as I am a man of good character and they can see both sides of this case. A courier collected the tape from the Police last week.
My lawyer is now in the process of making representations to the CPS as to why they believe both allegations should be dropped.
Firstly the removal of the door handle; you can not be charged with criminal damage if you believe the property to belong to you (even if this belief is incorrect). As I have made clear, I purchased the door and the handle and did believe them to be my property.
Secondly; It could be seen that I was removing the lock as to protect my personal belongings in the garage. Again this is the case as my ex had mentioned that she would push the car and all the contents of the garage into the road.
The text messages represent more of a challenge but there are areas that should be considered. For example, although the messages sent maybe deemed offensive, are they grossly offensive....
There is also a defence that my messages were not aimed to cause anxiety or distress but to re-establish contact with my daughter.
There are a few other mechanisms of defence that I will not go into now.
I will of course update once I have attended my bail hearing.
Many thanks
I do not like it when threads are started and not updated. Although my particular case is not resolved as yet, I would like to update.
Ok, the last time I posted I believe I was in the process of seeking legal advice. A chap I know through my work is a criminal lawyer for a very well regarded London law firm. I spoke with him and he invited me into their offices as he believed a colleague of his would be an ideal person to deal with it for me.
I had a meeting with both lawyers going back quite a while (just after my last post on here). I agreed that they would deal with the case.
I provided them with screen shots of all the multimedia messages that haven been sent between and my ex going back a long time.
My first bail date was the 14/04 and this was put back a couple of weeks and has once again been put back. It is now set for the 21st and this will not changed.
The reason for the bail date being changed is any offence of a domestic nature requires the Police to hand the case over to the CPS.
I have spoken with the Police a few times as they have been very good in keeping me in the loop as to what is going on.
Likewise my legal team have been fantastic. A family lawyer from the firm has been dealing with my ex and as of last week I have been seeing my daughter again on a very regular basis
This alone, although costly is worth every penny.
My lawyer requested the interview tape from the Police to which it has been released which I believe is quite rare. The Police do not have to release the tape and I have been informed that they have only done this as I am a man of good character and they can see both sides of this case. A courier collected the tape from the Police last week.
My lawyer is now in the process of making representations to the CPS as to why they believe both allegations should be dropped.
Firstly the removal of the door handle; you can not be charged with criminal damage if you believe the property to belong to you (even if this belief is incorrect). As I have made clear, I purchased the door and the handle and did believe them to be my property.
Secondly; It could be seen that I was removing the lock as to protect my personal belongings in the garage. Again this is the case as my ex had mentioned that she would push the car and all the contents of the garage into the road.
The text messages represent more of a challenge but there are areas that should be considered. For example, although the messages sent maybe deemed offensive, are they grossly offensive....
There is also a defence that my messages were not aimed to cause anxiety or distress but to re-establish contact with my daughter.
There are a few other mechanisms of defence that I will not go into now.
I will of course update once I have attended my bail hearing.
Many thanks
TROOPER88 said:
Likewise my legal team have been fantastic. A family lawyer from the firm has been dealing with my ex and as of last week I have been seeing my daughter again on a very regular basis
This alone, although costly is worth every penny.
Many thanks
"Big Softy Alert"This alone, although costly is worth every penny.
Many thanks
That's fantatic news Trooper
I was welling up with happiness after reading this paragraph. Luckily i havent been through anything like this but i have daughter of similar age and the thought of someone stopping me seeing her makes me cry.
I think we are all wishing you the best on this one.
Earthboundmisfit said:
"Big Softy Alert"
That's fantatic news Trooper
I was welling up with happiness after reading this paragraph. Luckily i havent been through anything like this but i have daughter of similar age and the thought of someone stopping me seeing her makes me cry.
I think we are all wishing you the best on this one.
HahaThat's fantatic news Trooper
I was welling up with happiness after reading this paragraph. Luckily i havent been through anything like this but i have daughter of similar age and the thought of someone stopping me seeing her makes me cry.
I think we are all wishing you the best on this one.
just the dealing with my ex (none of the criminal side) is over £1000.
I had her with me last week and she was in the lounge whilst I was in another room. I heard her laugh and thought to myself 'that's the best £1000 I've ever spent.......'
TROOPER88 said:
Haha
just the dealing with my ex (none of the criminal side) is over £1000.
I had her with me last week and she was in the lounge whilst I was in another room. I heard her laugh and thought to myself 'that's the best £1000 I've ever spent.......'
Good on you. Just keep that in mind, all the other stuff will sort itself out one way or another. Caution/no caution...... Doesnt really matter as long as you still can hear your daughter laugh. Its worth all the money in the world.just the dealing with my ex (none of the criminal side) is over £1000.
I had her with me last week and she was in the lounge whilst I was in another room. I heard her laugh and thought to myself 'that's the best £1000 I've ever spent.......'
Glad you got some legal advice and that the family side is getting sorted out.
Couple of quick points, a domestic doesn't need to go to the CPS. Police supervisors have an obligation to not send them incidents which have no hope of a successful prosecution.
I'm pretty sure you're entitled to your tapes / disk from an interview (pre-charge) and should be served with a notice at the conclusion as to how you can get a copy.
Couple of quick points, a domestic doesn't need to go to the CPS. Police supervisors have an obligation to not send them incidents which have no hope of a successful prosecution.
I'm pretty sure you're entitled to your tapes / disk from an interview (pre-charge) and should be served with a notice at the conclusion as to how you can get a copy.
Earthboundmisfit said:
Good on you. Just keep that in mind, all the other stuff will sort itself out one way or another. Caution/no caution...... Doesnt really matter as long as you still can hear your daughter laugh. Its worth all the money in the world.
A caution can matter you've admitted you are guilty, so you have a record. That may be significant if your job involves clearances. Don't accept a caution for the wrong reasons.Ok very similar to my issue which has now come to full conclusion so thought I would give you my experience.
I have a daughter, 13yrs who has now refused to see me for over a year, this is due to my ex brainwashing her over the course of the last 4 years since we divorced.
My ex has tried everything to get me into trouble, claiming I had beaten her, attacked her dad and all sorts of shizzle. Each time the police were brilliant and nothing ever came of her accusations.
So we rewind to last May and my daughter was booked to attend a very important event with myself, which was my brothers wedding hotel was booked and rooms all sorted (hotel chosen by my daughter as she wanted to stay in a specific hotel) daughter was excited to be going and becoming a bridesmaid. After booking and paying in full for the trip, my ex decided that my daughter could not attend and would block all attempts to let her leave the country. Daughter ended up not going to the wedding and missed out on a fantastic holiday.
Brother and his wife return home and had pre-booked a reception for friends and family who could not attend the wedding, it was a month after the return from the wedding. All contact with my daughter ceased just before the wedding, no texts were being replied to or calls answered.
Naturally I raised my concerns with my ex via email, to which she ignored my attempts to find out what was going on.
The night of the reception I suddenly get a flurry of text messages from my daughter asking about her attending the reception, to which I replied I would come collect her etc... to save her mum having to change her plans. Her mum refused to allow me to collect my own daughter, citing that she was resident parent blah blah on email. When it was explained that my daughter was more than welcome to the reception but her my ex was not welcome, I received a tirade of abuse from my ex telling me how terrible the bride was etc... (she and the bride had been friends in the past) and how my family were scum etc... ending in a f
k you!
I replied to this email in kind and stated that she should go get laid or buy herself a dildo as she needs to be less clingy to our daughter etc...
Daughter attended the reception with her mother sitting in car etc.. Attitude from my daughter was good she enjoyed herself and was adored by the family etc...
Since that night I have not had any contact with my daughter, her mother decided to ignore all my emails asking for the reasons I was not seeing my daughter. Over the course of 8 months I sent her mother 40 emails asking what was going on. When my daughter de-friended me on facebook I sent my ex an email saying how it was unacceptable that this was happening and she as resident parent had a responsibility to encourage and ensure that contact between myself and my daughter continued. Her reply was "take me to court" to which I didn't want to do as she had already primed my daughter by telling her if I took her to court she wouldnt be able to afford a holiday in November (this was confirmed by a mutual friend who my daughter had told).
Last October I was arrested by two very nice police officers who travelled over 80 miles round trip to arrest me, and charged with harassment of my ex-wife via email.
I was taken to the station and made to wait for 13hours before being interviewed by a PC who seemed he would fall asleep of boredom during the interview, my solicitor actually asked him if he was bored!
I was charged and bailed and told not to contact my ex or my daughter until my court hearing which was 8 weeks away. Even though the emails were sent to my ex she had in her statement stated that she feared for her and my daughters safety..... not once had I threatened her or my daughter (how absurd!) So the bail conditions were set, event though there was a court order in place for contact.
Suited and booted with a great solicitor I attended the first magistrates hearing I pleaded not guilty to harassment and it was listed for trial.
At trial my ex put on the waterworks and even requested special measures, so she had a screen up whilst giving evidence against me, even had a support person asking her if she was ok to continue, the drama was amazing. She stated she was so upset with the whole situation and that our daughter was out of control and her relationship with my daughter had suffered due to the emails. And she stated there was nothing she could do as my daughter did not want to see me, but not once did she state why my daughter did not want to see me, just told the court how a terrible person I was, making all sorts of accusations about me!
My solicitor was already clued up about all her drama and tore her to bits, stating that she had ignored 90% of my emails and only had replied in order to abuse me or have a go at me. My emails were all asking why I couldnt see my daughter and had she gotten to the bottom of the issue that my daughter did not want to see me (at the begining I tried to deal with this as a "can you help" issue). Not one email was me directly abusing her or threatening her in any way at all. Her story changed on the stand and she had a tantrum about how as resident parent she had special rights. We even proved she had engineered stories in order to cast me in a bad light to the court and also my daughter, we proved she had deliberately blocked contact with my daughter. We also proved she had manipulated my daughter in order to damage my relationship with my daughter.
The magistrates consisted of one gentleman and two ladies, with a lady who was the "legal advisor".
I was found guilty of section 2 harrasment, as I had emailed her 40 times and 3 of those emails were classed as derogatory, one as explained above about the dildo and the others by telling my ex to stop being a dick and sort out my daughter. My ex had actually emailed me much more abuse in the previous 6 months abusing me no less than 14 times! But as she was not on trial this made no odds.
In sentencing the male magistrate stated he could not actually punish me per se but had to impose a short restraining order upon me as the prosecution had specifically requested it, this applied to my ex-wife not my daugher. He also advised me to take the case to the family court and have my ex-wife dealt with there as the court could see that the manipulation etc .... So I ended up with a criminal conviction for trying to see my daugher!
Later I was told the CPS had seen me as an easy target as I had a totally clean record and had admitted to sending the emails, all the supporting evidence to show that my ex has been manipulating everything was completely ignored! My solicitor wanted to appeal and take it further as he felt it was such a strong defence and could not believe that the 40 emails over 8 months were enough to convict even though they were not threatening. At this point I had taken as much as I could and just wanted it all to go away.
So I took it all to the family court to try and see my daugher, CAFCASS can show my daugher is manipulated and turned against me, my ex actually lied to them on a number of occasions. During their needs and wishes report of my daughter they highlighted that my daughter was parroting my ex etc..... This was then taken to the court and shown to the judge who closed the case saying "I wish I could wave a magic wand and fix this, but I can't!" because my daughter stated she didn't want to see me then there is nothing that can be done, despite all the proof my ex has manipulated the situation and lied repeatedly. My family solicitor was spitting bullets about it all but couldn't even get the judge to try and order mediation for myself and my daugher or ex as he just said he can't force her to see me etc...
So in closing I spend nearly £10K defending myself and trying to get to see my daughter. The criminal courts wanted a result and allowed a pathetic drama to play out from someone who was clearly taking the piss in the criminal court.
The family courts are toothless when your child hits the teens and can see manipulation etc but will not do a thing about it other than to chastise my ex for her conduct within the court room.
My ex has now told all and saundry her side of the story and tried to have me sacked from a very good job with a lot of trust, she has emailed our HR department telling them all about my conviction for harassing her. Luckily the company I work for have seen her repeated attempts to cause me issues at work and so just file them away.
My ex has informed mutual friends, some of whom she hasn't seen since we split, all about the conviction also, going round their houses to tell them etc... No doubt if I was to report all this as harassment I would be ignored and called petty, but 40 non threatening emails is like case of the year to them!
I havent seen or spoken to my daughter in over a year, no-one on my side of the family has
I have very little faith in the police after this run in, I wasn't warned or cautioned at all and the case was sent straight to the CPS.
I have very little faith in the criminal courts
I have less faith in the family courts
Moral of the story get a solicitor, don't admit to anything and do not trust anyone. Don't think your case is water-tight as the court doesn't care how much proof you have of wrong doing by your ex, they just want to nail you, you are the one on trial and as such your ex could be the devil incarnate, they just don't care.
I have a daughter, 13yrs who has now refused to see me for over a year, this is due to my ex brainwashing her over the course of the last 4 years since we divorced.
My ex has tried everything to get me into trouble, claiming I had beaten her, attacked her dad and all sorts of shizzle. Each time the police were brilliant and nothing ever came of her accusations.
So we rewind to last May and my daughter was booked to attend a very important event with myself, which was my brothers wedding hotel was booked and rooms all sorted (hotel chosen by my daughter as she wanted to stay in a specific hotel) daughter was excited to be going and becoming a bridesmaid. After booking and paying in full for the trip, my ex decided that my daughter could not attend and would block all attempts to let her leave the country. Daughter ended up not going to the wedding and missed out on a fantastic holiday.
Brother and his wife return home and had pre-booked a reception for friends and family who could not attend the wedding, it was a month after the return from the wedding. All contact with my daughter ceased just before the wedding, no texts were being replied to or calls answered.
Naturally I raised my concerns with my ex via email, to which she ignored my attempts to find out what was going on.
The night of the reception I suddenly get a flurry of text messages from my daughter asking about her attending the reception, to which I replied I would come collect her etc... to save her mum having to change her plans. Her mum refused to allow me to collect my own daughter, citing that she was resident parent blah blah on email. When it was explained that my daughter was more than welcome to the reception but her my ex was not welcome, I received a tirade of abuse from my ex telling me how terrible the bride was etc... (she and the bride had been friends in the past) and how my family were scum etc... ending in a f
k you! I replied to this email in kind and stated that she should go get laid or buy herself a dildo as she needs to be less clingy to our daughter etc...
Daughter attended the reception with her mother sitting in car etc.. Attitude from my daughter was good she enjoyed herself and was adored by the family etc...
Since that night I have not had any contact with my daughter, her mother decided to ignore all my emails asking for the reasons I was not seeing my daughter. Over the course of 8 months I sent her mother 40 emails asking what was going on. When my daughter de-friended me on facebook I sent my ex an email saying how it was unacceptable that this was happening and she as resident parent had a responsibility to encourage and ensure that contact between myself and my daughter continued. Her reply was "take me to court" to which I didn't want to do as she had already primed my daughter by telling her if I took her to court she wouldnt be able to afford a holiday in November (this was confirmed by a mutual friend who my daughter had told).
Last October I was arrested by two very nice police officers who travelled over 80 miles round trip to arrest me, and charged with harassment of my ex-wife via email.
I was taken to the station and made to wait for 13hours before being interviewed by a PC who seemed he would fall asleep of boredom during the interview, my solicitor actually asked him if he was bored!
I was charged and bailed and told not to contact my ex or my daughter until my court hearing which was 8 weeks away. Even though the emails were sent to my ex she had in her statement stated that she feared for her and my daughters safety..... not once had I threatened her or my daughter (how absurd!) So the bail conditions were set, event though there was a court order in place for contact.
Suited and booted with a great solicitor I attended the first magistrates hearing I pleaded not guilty to harassment and it was listed for trial.
At trial my ex put on the waterworks and even requested special measures, so she had a screen up whilst giving evidence against me, even had a support person asking her if she was ok to continue, the drama was amazing. She stated she was so upset with the whole situation and that our daughter was out of control and her relationship with my daughter had suffered due to the emails. And she stated there was nothing she could do as my daughter did not want to see me, but not once did she state why my daughter did not want to see me, just told the court how a terrible person I was, making all sorts of accusations about me!
My solicitor was already clued up about all her drama and tore her to bits, stating that she had ignored 90% of my emails and only had replied in order to abuse me or have a go at me. My emails were all asking why I couldnt see my daughter and had she gotten to the bottom of the issue that my daughter did not want to see me (at the begining I tried to deal with this as a "can you help" issue). Not one email was me directly abusing her or threatening her in any way at all. Her story changed on the stand and she had a tantrum about how as resident parent she had special rights. We even proved she had engineered stories in order to cast me in a bad light to the court and also my daughter, we proved she had deliberately blocked contact with my daughter. We also proved she had manipulated my daughter in order to damage my relationship with my daughter.
The magistrates consisted of one gentleman and two ladies, with a lady who was the "legal advisor".
I was found guilty of section 2 harrasment, as I had emailed her 40 times and 3 of those emails were classed as derogatory, one as explained above about the dildo and the others by telling my ex to stop being a dick and sort out my daughter. My ex had actually emailed me much more abuse in the previous 6 months abusing me no less than 14 times! But as she was not on trial this made no odds.
In sentencing the male magistrate stated he could not actually punish me per se but had to impose a short restraining order upon me as the prosecution had specifically requested it, this applied to my ex-wife not my daugher. He also advised me to take the case to the family court and have my ex-wife dealt with there as the court could see that the manipulation etc .... So I ended up with a criminal conviction for trying to see my daugher!
Later I was told the CPS had seen me as an easy target as I had a totally clean record and had admitted to sending the emails, all the supporting evidence to show that my ex has been manipulating everything was completely ignored! My solicitor wanted to appeal and take it further as he felt it was such a strong defence and could not believe that the 40 emails over 8 months were enough to convict even though they were not threatening. At this point I had taken as much as I could and just wanted it all to go away.
So I took it all to the family court to try and see my daugher, CAFCASS can show my daugher is manipulated and turned against me, my ex actually lied to them on a number of occasions. During their needs and wishes report of my daughter they highlighted that my daughter was parroting my ex etc..... This was then taken to the court and shown to the judge who closed the case saying "I wish I could wave a magic wand and fix this, but I can't!" because my daughter stated she didn't want to see me then there is nothing that can be done, despite all the proof my ex has manipulated the situation and lied repeatedly. My family solicitor was spitting bullets about it all but couldn't even get the judge to try and order mediation for myself and my daugher or ex as he just said he can't force her to see me etc...
So in closing I spend nearly £10K defending myself and trying to get to see my daughter. The criminal courts wanted a result and allowed a pathetic drama to play out from someone who was clearly taking the piss in the criminal court.
The family courts are toothless when your child hits the teens and can see manipulation etc but will not do a thing about it other than to chastise my ex for her conduct within the court room.
My ex has now told all and saundry her side of the story and tried to have me sacked from a very good job with a lot of trust, she has emailed our HR department telling them all about my conviction for harassing her. Luckily the company I work for have seen her repeated attempts to cause me issues at work and so just file them away.
My ex has informed mutual friends, some of whom she hasn't seen since we split, all about the conviction also, going round their houses to tell them etc... No doubt if I was to report all this as harassment I would be ignored and called petty, but 40 non threatening emails is like case of the year to them!
I havent seen or spoken to my daughter in over a year, no-one on my side of the family has
I have very little faith in the police after this run in, I wasn't warned or cautioned at all and the case was sent straight to the CPS.
I have very little faith in the criminal courts
I have less faith in the family courts
Moral of the story get a solicitor, don't admit to anything and do not trust anyone. Don't think your case is water-tight as the court doesn't care how much proof you have of wrong doing by your ex, they just want to nail you, you are the one on trial and as such your ex could be the devil incarnate, they just don't care.
Kaelic said:
Moral of the story get a solicitor, don't admit to anything and do not trust anyone. Don't think your case is water-tight as the court doesn't care how much proof you have of wrong doing by your ex, they just want to nail you, you are the one on trial and as such your ex could be the devil incarnate, they just don't care.
Your post suggests you think your conviction was unjust, and you were not guilty of S.2 harassment. You said you had a great solicitor, were they of the same opinion? If so, why didn't you appeal to the Crown Court?
Kaelic said:
Ok very similar to my issue which has now come to full conclusion so thought I would give you my experience.
I have a daughter, 13yrs who has now refused to see me for over a year, this is due to my ex brainwashing her over the course of the last 4 years since we divorced.
My ex has tried everything to get me into trouble, claiming I had beaten her, attacked her dad and all sorts of shizzle. Each time the police were brilliant and nothing ever came of her accusations.
So we rewind to last May and my daughter was booked to attend a very important event with myself, which was my brothers wedding hotel was booked and rooms all sorted (hotel chosen by my daughter as she wanted to stay in a specific hotel) daughter was excited to be going and becoming a bridesmaid. After booking and paying in full for the trip, my ex decided that my daughter could not attend and would block all attempts to let her leave the country. Daughter ended up not going to the wedding and missed out on a fantastic holiday.
Brother and his wife return home and had pre-booked a reception for friends and family who could not attend the wedding, it was a month after the return from the wedding. All contact with my daughter ceased just before the wedding, no texts were being replied to or calls answered.
Naturally I raised my concerns with my ex via email, to which she ignored my attempts to find out what was going on.
The night of the reception I suddenly get a flurry of text messages from my daughter asking about her attending the reception, to which I replied I would come collect her etc... to save her mum having to change her plans. Her mum refused to allow me to collect my own daughter, citing that she was resident parent blah blah on email. When it was explained that my daughter was more than welcome to the reception but her my ex was not welcome, I received a tirade of abuse from my ex telling me how terrible the bride was etc... (she and the bride had been friends in the past) and how my family were scum etc... ending in a fk you!
I replied to this email in kind and stated that she should go get laid or buy herself a dildo as she needs to be less clingy to our daughter etc...
Daughter attended the reception with her mother sitting in car etc.. Attitude from my daughter was good she enjoyed herself and was adored by the family etc...
Since that night I have not had any contact with my daughter, her mother decided to ignore all my emails asking for the reasons I was not seeing my daughter. Over the course of 8 months I sent her mother 40 emails asking what was going on. When my daughter de-friended me on facebook I sent my ex an email saying how it was unacceptable that this was happening and she as resident parent had a responsibility to encourage and ensure that contact between myself and my daughter continued. Her reply was "take me to court" to which I didn't want to do as she had already primed my daughter by telling her if I took her to court she wouldnt be able to afford a holiday in November (this was confirmed by a mutual friend who my daughter had told).
Last October I was arrested by two very nice police officers who travelled over 80 miles round trip to arrest me, and charged with harassment of my ex-wife via email.
I was taken to the station and made to wait for 13hours before being interviewed by a PC who seemed he would fall asleep of boredom during the interview, my solicitor actually asked him if he was bored!
I was charged and bailed and told not to contact my ex or my daughter until my court hearing which was 8 weeks away. Even though the emails were sent to my ex she had in her statement stated that she feared for her and my daughters safety..... not once had I threatened her or my daughter (how absurd!) So the bail conditions were set, event though there was a court order in place for contact.
Suited and booted with a great solicitor I attended the first magistrates hearing I pleaded not guilty to harassment and it was listed for trial.
At trial my ex put on the waterworks and even requested special measures, so she had a screen up whilst giving evidence against me, even had a support person asking her if she was ok to continue, the drama was amazing. She stated she was so upset with the whole situation and that our daughter was out of control and her relationship with my daughter had suffered due to the emails. And she stated there was nothing she could do as my daughter did not want to see me, but not once did she state why my daughter did not want to see me, just told the court how a terrible person I was, making all sorts of accusations about me!
My solicitor was already clued up about all her drama and tore her to bits, stating that she had ignored 90% of my emails and only had replied in order to abuse me or have a go at me. My emails were all asking why I couldnt see my daughter and had she gotten to the bottom of the issue that my daughter did not want to see me (at the begining I tried to deal with this as a "can you help" issue). Not one email was me directly abusing her or threatening her in any way at all. Her story changed on the stand and she had a tantrum about how as resident parent she had special rights. We even proved she had engineered stories in order to cast me in a bad light to the court and also my daughter, we proved she had deliberately blocked contact with my daughter. We also proved she had manipulated my daughter in order to damage my relationship with my daughter.
The magistrates consisted of one gentleman and two ladies, with a lady who was the "legal advisor".
I was found guilty of section 2 harrasment, as I had emailed her 40 times and 3 of those emails were classed as derogatory, one as explained above about the dildo and the others by telling my ex to stop being a dick and sort out my daughter. My ex had actually emailed me much more abuse in the previous 6 months abusing me no less than 14 times! But as she was not on trial this made no odds.
In sentencing the male magistrate stated he could not actually punish me per se but had to impose a short restraining order upon me as the prosecution had specifically requested it, this applied to my ex-wife not my daugher. He also advised me to take the case to the family court and have my ex-wife dealt with there as the court could see that the manipulation etc .... So I ended up with a criminal conviction for trying to see my daugher!
Later I was told the CPS had seen me as an easy target as I had a totally clean record and had admitted to sending the emails, all the supporting evidence to show that my ex has been manipulating everything was completely ignored! My solicitor wanted to appeal and take it further as he felt it was such a strong defence and could not believe that the 40 emails over 8 months were enough to convict even though they were not threatening. At this point I had taken as much as I could and just wanted it all to go away.
So I took it all to the family court to try and see my daugher, CAFCASS can show my daugher is manipulated and turned against me, my ex actually lied to them on a number of occasions. During their needs and wishes report of my daughter they highlighted that my daughter was parroting my ex etc..... This was then taken to the court and shown to the judge who closed the case saying "I wish I could wave a magic wand and fix this, but I can't!" because my daughter stated she didn't want to see me then there is nothing that can be done, despite all the proof my ex has manipulated the situation and lied repeatedly. My family solicitor was spitting bullets about it all but couldn't even get the judge to try and order mediation for myself and my daugher or ex as he just said he can't force her to see me etc...
So in closing I spend nearly £10K defending myself and trying to get to see my daughter. The criminal courts wanted a result and allowed a pathetic drama to play out from someone who was clearly taking the piss in the criminal court.
The family courts are toothless when your child hits the teens and can see manipulation etc but will not do a thing about it other than to chastise my ex for her conduct within the court room.
My ex has now told all and saundry her side of the story and tried to have me sacked from a very good job with a lot of trust, she has emailed our HR department telling them all about my conviction for harassing her. Luckily the company I work for have seen her repeated attempts to cause me issues at work and so just file them away.
My ex has informed mutual friends, some of whom she hasn't seen since we split, all about the conviction also, going round their houses to tell them etc... No doubt if I was to report all this as harassment I would be ignored and called petty, but 40 non threatening emails is like case of the year to them!
I havent seen or spoken to my daughter in over a year, no-one on my side of the family has
I have very little faith in the police after this run in, I wasn't warned or cautioned at all and the case was sent straight to the CPS.
I have very little faith in the criminal courts
I have less faith in the family courts
Moral of the story get a solicitor, don't admit to anything and do not trust anyone. Don't think your case is water-tight as the court doesn't care how much proof you have of wrong doing by your ex, they just want to nail you, you are the one on trial and as such your ex could be the devil incarnate, they just don't care.
Good god, I don't know what to say.I have a daughter, 13yrs who has now refused to see me for over a year, this is due to my ex brainwashing her over the course of the last 4 years since we divorced.
My ex has tried everything to get me into trouble, claiming I had beaten her, attacked her dad and all sorts of shizzle. Each time the police were brilliant and nothing ever came of her accusations.
So we rewind to last May and my daughter was booked to attend a very important event with myself, which was my brothers wedding hotel was booked and rooms all sorted (hotel chosen by my daughter as she wanted to stay in a specific hotel) daughter was excited to be going and becoming a bridesmaid. After booking and paying in full for the trip, my ex decided that my daughter could not attend and would block all attempts to let her leave the country. Daughter ended up not going to the wedding and missed out on a fantastic holiday.
Brother and his wife return home and had pre-booked a reception for friends and family who could not attend the wedding, it was a month after the return from the wedding. All contact with my daughter ceased just before the wedding, no texts were being replied to or calls answered.
Naturally I raised my concerns with my ex via email, to which she ignored my attempts to find out what was going on.
The night of the reception I suddenly get a flurry of text messages from my daughter asking about her attending the reception, to which I replied I would come collect her etc... to save her mum having to change her plans. Her mum refused to allow me to collect my own daughter, citing that she was resident parent blah blah on email. When it was explained that my daughter was more than welcome to the reception but her my ex was not welcome, I received a tirade of abuse from my ex telling me how terrible the bride was etc... (she and the bride had been friends in the past) and how my family were scum etc... ending in a f
k you! I replied to this email in kind and stated that she should go get laid or buy herself a dildo as she needs to be less clingy to our daughter etc...
Daughter attended the reception with her mother sitting in car etc.. Attitude from my daughter was good she enjoyed herself and was adored by the family etc...
Since that night I have not had any contact with my daughter, her mother decided to ignore all my emails asking for the reasons I was not seeing my daughter. Over the course of 8 months I sent her mother 40 emails asking what was going on. When my daughter de-friended me on facebook I sent my ex an email saying how it was unacceptable that this was happening and she as resident parent had a responsibility to encourage and ensure that contact between myself and my daughter continued. Her reply was "take me to court" to which I didn't want to do as she had already primed my daughter by telling her if I took her to court she wouldnt be able to afford a holiday in November (this was confirmed by a mutual friend who my daughter had told).
Last October I was arrested by two very nice police officers who travelled over 80 miles round trip to arrest me, and charged with harassment of my ex-wife via email.
I was taken to the station and made to wait for 13hours before being interviewed by a PC who seemed he would fall asleep of boredom during the interview, my solicitor actually asked him if he was bored!
I was charged and bailed and told not to contact my ex or my daughter until my court hearing which was 8 weeks away. Even though the emails were sent to my ex she had in her statement stated that she feared for her and my daughters safety..... not once had I threatened her or my daughter (how absurd!) So the bail conditions were set, event though there was a court order in place for contact.
Suited and booted with a great solicitor I attended the first magistrates hearing I pleaded not guilty to harassment and it was listed for trial.
At trial my ex put on the waterworks and even requested special measures, so she had a screen up whilst giving evidence against me, even had a support person asking her if she was ok to continue, the drama was amazing. She stated she was so upset with the whole situation and that our daughter was out of control and her relationship with my daughter had suffered due to the emails. And she stated there was nothing she could do as my daughter did not want to see me, but not once did she state why my daughter did not want to see me, just told the court how a terrible person I was, making all sorts of accusations about me!
My solicitor was already clued up about all her drama and tore her to bits, stating that she had ignored 90% of my emails and only had replied in order to abuse me or have a go at me. My emails were all asking why I couldnt see my daughter and had she gotten to the bottom of the issue that my daughter did not want to see me (at the begining I tried to deal with this as a "can you help" issue). Not one email was me directly abusing her or threatening her in any way at all. Her story changed on the stand and she had a tantrum about how as resident parent she had special rights. We even proved she had engineered stories in order to cast me in a bad light to the court and also my daughter, we proved she had deliberately blocked contact with my daughter. We also proved she had manipulated my daughter in order to damage my relationship with my daughter.
The magistrates consisted of one gentleman and two ladies, with a lady who was the "legal advisor".
I was found guilty of section 2 harrasment, as I had emailed her 40 times and 3 of those emails were classed as derogatory, one as explained above about the dildo and the others by telling my ex to stop being a dick and sort out my daughter. My ex had actually emailed me much more abuse in the previous 6 months abusing me no less than 14 times! But as she was not on trial this made no odds.
In sentencing the male magistrate stated he could not actually punish me per se but had to impose a short restraining order upon me as the prosecution had specifically requested it, this applied to my ex-wife not my daugher. He also advised me to take the case to the family court and have my ex-wife dealt with there as the court could see that the manipulation etc .... So I ended up with a criminal conviction for trying to see my daugher!
Later I was told the CPS had seen me as an easy target as I had a totally clean record and had admitted to sending the emails, all the supporting evidence to show that my ex has been manipulating everything was completely ignored! My solicitor wanted to appeal and take it further as he felt it was such a strong defence and could not believe that the 40 emails over 8 months were enough to convict even though they were not threatening. At this point I had taken as much as I could and just wanted it all to go away.
So I took it all to the family court to try and see my daugher, CAFCASS can show my daugher is manipulated and turned against me, my ex actually lied to them on a number of occasions. During their needs and wishes report of my daughter they highlighted that my daughter was parroting my ex etc..... This was then taken to the court and shown to the judge who closed the case saying "I wish I could wave a magic wand and fix this, but I can't!" because my daughter stated she didn't want to see me then there is nothing that can be done, despite all the proof my ex has manipulated the situation and lied repeatedly. My family solicitor was spitting bullets about it all but couldn't even get the judge to try and order mediation for myself and my daugher or ex as he just said he can't force her to see me etc...
So in closing I spend nearly £10K defending myself and trying to get to see my daughter. The criminal courts wanted a result and allowed a pathetic drama to play out from someone who was clearly taking the piss in the criminal court.
The family courts are toothless when your child hits the teens and can see manipulation etc but will not do a thing about it other than to chastise my ex for her conduct within the court room.
My ex has now told all and saundry her side of the story and tried to have me sacked from a very good job with a lot of trust, she has emailed our HR department telling them all about my conviction for harassing her. Luckily the company I work for have seen her repeated attempts to cause me issues at work and so just file them away.
My ex has informed mutual friends, some of whom she hasn't seen since we split, all about the conviction also, going round their houses to tell them etc... No doubt if I was to report all this as harassment I would be ignored and called petty, but 40 non threatening emails is like case of the year to them!
I havent seen or spoken to my daughter in over a year, no-one on my side of the family has
I have very little faith in the police after this run in, I wasn't warned or cautioned at all and the case was sent straight to the CPS.
I have very little faith in the criminal courts
I have less faith in the family courts
Moral of the story get a solicitor, don't admit to anything and do not trust anyone. Don't think your case is water-tight as the court doesn't care how much proof you have of wrong doing by your ex, they just want to nail you, you are the one on trial and as such your ex could be the devil incarnate, they just don't care.
Really feel for you fella.
Kaelic thats some pretty shocking and very sad stuff. At least if you keep all the paperwork pertaining to this maybe one day when your daughter gets older she can see you tried as hard as you could.
As a sidenote, if your ex emailed you far more derogatory things than that which got you charged and convicted then why can't you make a similar complaint against her? If she is willing to go to your work and threaten your job out of spite then getting some sort of restraining order against her may be in your best interests...
As a sidenote, if your ex emailed you far more derogatory things than that which got you charged and convicted then why can't you make a similar complaint against her? If she is willing to go to your work and threaten your job out of spite then getting some sort of restraining order against her may be in your best interests...
La Liga said:
Kaelic said:
Moral of the story get a solicitor, don't admit to anything and do not trust anyone. Don't think your case is water-tight as the court doesn't care how much proof you have of wrong doing by your ex, they just want to nail you, you are the one on trial and as such your ex could be the devil incarnate, they just don't care.
Your post suggests you think your conviction was unjust, and you were not guilty of S.2 harassment. You said you had a great solicitor, were they of the same opinion? If so, why didn't you appeal to the Crown Court?
This on paper constitutes harassment
My solicitor did want to take it to appeal but I had, had enough of it all, we went in so confident it was almost unbeleivable that they found me guilty. To be fair I am glad its all over and done with now as the amount of stress I was under was enough for me to not want to do it again.
Only sign was the legal advisor spoke to my solicitor between the evidence and verdict and stated that I had admitted sending the emails and they showed a course of conduct which was harassing, their content was of no relevance.
I do think the conviction was unjust as do every person who have read the CPS case against me. She has stated to mutal friends she wanted me jailed!
zedstar said:
Kaelic thats some pretty shocking and very sad stuff. At least if you keep all the paperwork pertaining to this maybe one day when your daughter gets older she can see you tried as hard as you could.
As a sidenote, if your ex emailed you far more derogatory things than that which got you charged and convicted then why can't you make a similar complaint against her? If she is willing to go to your work and threaten your job out of spite then getting some sort of restraining order against her may be in your best interests...
Bearing in mind this is all very raw still, the criminal court thing was 2 months ago and the family court was 2 weeks ago.As a sidenote, if your ex emailed you far more derogatory things than that which got you charged and convicted then why can't you make a similar complaint against her? If she is willing to go to your work and threaten your job out of spite then getting some sort of restraining order against her may be in your best interests...
I will just appear to be petty and vindictive if I try to get her done for it, the key thing is that I replied to all her emails abusing me in a very calm manner. She didnt reply to the majority of my 40 emails so I "should" have stopped emailing her apparently and taken other action according to the CPS prosecutor. Quite what I was expected to do other than drag it through the family courts I do not know lol!
Whatever you do, try everything in your power to keep CAFCASS out of the picture. They are one of the most toothless, arrogant and incompetent bunches I have ever heard of. One of my friends spent nearly £20k and 2 years seeing his daughter in a contact centre due to his ex's lies. Went to court on several occasions and the CAFCASS officer had "forgotten to write his report"
He eventually won in court only for said 3 year old to then be brainwashed by her mother so that she won't get in the car when he goes to pick her up as "daddy won't bring her back"
I also have a friend who was convicted of harassment and got community service and a restraining order placed on him for sending emails to his ex as she had cut him off from the 8 year old that he had brought up as his own - I saw the contents of those emails as he had sold up and moved in with me at the time and there was nothing derogatory or threatening in them. When arrested she had even claimed that he had parked his bike up at the end of her street and was watching her - except at the time he was stood in my kitchen with me and his sister, and his bike and leathers were totally different colours to the ones that she described him wearing
The law in this country with regards to male rights is an absolute disgrace. I am lucky that I have an ex who, though difficult at times to deal with, has never stopped me seeing my daughter in the ten years since we broke up, and who I actually have a reasonable relationship with now (the ex, not my daughter)
He eventually won in court only for said 3 year old to then be brainwashed by her mother so that she won't get in the car when he goes to pick her up as "daddy won't bring her back"
I also have a friend who was convicted of harassment and got community service and a restraining order placed on him for sending emails to his ex as she had cut him off from the 8 year old that he had brought up as his own - I saw the contents of those emails as he had sold up and moved in with me at the time and there was nothing derogatory or threatening in them. When arrested she had even claimed that he had parked his bike up at the end of her street and was watching her - except at the time he was stood in my kitchen with me and his sister, and his bike and leathers were totally different colours to the ones that she described him wearing
The law in this country with regards to male rights is an absolute disgrace. I am lucky that I have an ex who, though difficult at times to deal with, has never stopped me seeing my daughter in the ten years since we broke up, and who I actually have a reasonable relationship with now (the ex, not my daughter)
Kaelic said:
I explained above that the basis for the conviction was the 40 emails to my ex over the course of 8 months
This on paper constitutes harassment
My solicitor did want to take it to appeal but I had, had enough of it all, we went in so confident it was almost unbeleivable that they found me guilty. To be fair I am glad its all over and done with now as the amount of stress I was under was enough for me to not want to do it again.
Only sign was the legal advisor spoke to my solicitor between the evidence and verdict and stated that I had admitted sending the emails and they showed a course of conduct which was harassing, their content was of no relevance.
I do think the conviction was unjust as do every person who have read the CPS case against me. She has stated to mutal friends she wanted me jailed!
I understand that, but given the longer-term implications of such a conviction, it seems unwise not to appeal it if it were apparently so weak. This on paper constitutes harassment
My solicitor did want to take it to appeal but I had, had enough of it all, we went in so confident it was almost unbeleivable that they found me guilty. To be fair I am glad its all over and done with now as the amount of stress I was under was enough for me to not want to do it again.
Only sign was the legal advisor spoke to my solicitor between the evidence and verdict and stated that I had admitted sending the emails and they showed a course of conduct which was harassing, their content was of no relevance.
I do think the conviction was unjust as do every person who have read the CPS case against me. She has stated to mutal friends she wanted me jailed!
La Liga said:
Kaelic said:
I explained above that the basis for the conviction was the 40 emails to my ex over the course of 8 months
This on paper constitutes harassment
My solicitor did want to take it to appeal but I had, had enough of it all, we went in so confident it was almost unbeleivable that they found me guilty. To be fair I am glad its all over and done with now as the amount of stress I was under was enough for me to not want to do it again.
Only sign was the legal advisor spoke to my solicitor between the evidence and verdict and stated that I had admitted sending the emails and they showed a course of conduct which was harassing, their content was of no relevance.
I do think the conviction was unjust as do every person who have read the CPS case against me. She has stated to mutal friends she wanted me jailed!
I understand that, but given the longer-term implications of such a conviction, it seems unwise not to appeal it if it were apparently so weak. This on paper constitutes harassment
My solicitor did want to take it to appeal but I had, had enough of it all, we went in so confident it was almost unbeleivable that they found me guilty. To be fair I am glad its all over and done with now as the amount of stress I was under was enough for me to not want to do it again.
Only sign was the legal advisor spoke to my solicitor between the evidence and verdict and stated that I had admitted sending the emails and they showed a course of conduct which was harassing, their content was of no relevance.
I do think the conviction was unjust as do every person who have read the CPS case against me. She has stated to mutal friends she wanted me jailed!
La Liga said:
understand that, but given the longer-term implications of such a conviction, it seems unwise not to appeal it if it were apparently so weak.
Honestly?Do you have the bottomless money pit and total emotional detachment of the CPS when it comes to defending such things?
I am a solicitor and will fight to my last breath anything like this if it ever happened to me because not only would it take away my child but also my livelihood. I have seen how badly misused the Police and CPS guidelines are on this and how utterly unprotected many husbands and fathers are. Simply put they are so scared of getting it wrong once that the basic position seems to be 'remove the father'.
There are not enough words to fully display my utter contempt for the one sided nature of how the Police and the Courts deal with fathers who are prevented from accessing their children.
One day we will look back on the last 30 years or so, and the next 10 as the reforms start to take effect (if they are continued), and there will be an awful lot of officials of many positions who will have to face the realisation that they are indirectly responsible for the destruction of the lives of thousands innocent people, from the children they have failed and left with mentally abusive and manipulative parents onwards.
To be honest, they are just above the mothers and fathers who abuse the processes. There is a lot of 'our hands are tied' talk - 90% of the time it is utter bulls
t and the reality is that they just don't have the gumption to look beyond the 'easy' solution.eldar said:
Earthboundmisfit said:
Good on you. Just keep that in mind, all the other stuff will sort itself out one way or another. Caution/no caution...... Doesnt really matter as long as you still can hear your daughter laugh. Its worth all the money in the world.
A caution can matter you've admitted you are guilty, so you have a record. That may be significant if your job involves clearances. Don't accept a caution for the wrong reasons.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff