Been arressted - am I perverting the course of justice?

Been arressted - am I perverting the course of justice?

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TROOPER88

Original Poster:

1,767 posts

179 months

Friday 27th March 2015
quotequote all
Guys
This is a long, honest post. Please only read if you have the time.....

I have got myself into a spot of bother.
I am not going to hide behind what I have done and pretend it was a friend or set up a second account.

It relates to a post I made a few days ago regarding my ex partner and the my possessions in her garage.

I have e-mailed a criminal lawyer who is going to call me back on Monday after he has read the e-mail. What is probably best is if I post the e-mail below with names/address's removed. For the purpose of the e-mail I shall call my Daughter Sally:

Dear xxxx
I hope you are well.

I thought it would be a good idea to e-mail you so that you have a full and thorough understanding of the case before the meeting. Apologies if the e-mail is long winded but I feel it would be a benefit if you know the case in detail.

Ok, my name is xxxx, I am 36 years old and work as a xxxxxxx. I have been in my current position for 12 years.

I do not have a criminal record and have never been arrested.

In 2006 I met my ex partner Miss xxxxx. We did not marry but in 2008 had a daughter who is called Sally.
Late in 2013 I found out that Miss xxxxx was having an affair. The gentleman Miss xxxxx was having an affair with was a long standing family friend on her families side, a Mr xxxxx. I was extremely upset at the time; especially when it became clear who it was with. This gentleman has been married twice before and has a young son with his most recent wife.

Throughout my relationship with Miss xxxxx I had a very close and good relationship with her family, in particular her father who I would play a lot of golf with.
I decided to approach the father and informed him of exactly what was going on. The news sent shockwaves through the family and they immediately felt that Mr xxxxx had betrayed them.

Miss xxxxx had been employed on a part-time basis by the father who has his own business. A short time after this revelation Miss xxxxx quit her work as I believe the younger brother (who also worked for the company) and the father could not cope with the situation.

Myself and Miss xxxxx moved into xxxxx Road, xxxxx in December 2010. The property was purchased solely in her name and that is still the case today. In 2011 we had a large garage built at the rear of the property which I helped fund. The reason the garage was needed is that my hobby at the time was the restoration of classic cars.

I moved out of the house in December 2013 which was an incredibly traumatic time as Sally was now 5 years old.

Over the following 12-14 months I would see Sally as often as I possibly could. My work is of a shift work nature meaning if I was on a late shift I would drop Sally to school and vice versa if I was on an early shift. I would estimate I would see Sally circa 6 times a week. This would involve her staying over with me circa once a week.

I would attend the garage a couple of times a week with the view of finishing the project that was underway which will be sold when complete. I did not need to gain access to the house for me to enter the garage as I had a fob for the electric door.

Over this period and to the current day Miss xxxxx has continued the relationship with Mr xxxxx. This has proved to be very upsetting for me and has meant that the relationship between myself and Miss xxxxx has been very up and down.
On a positive note my relationship with Sally has been good over this period.

Over Christmas of 2014 Sally was going through a phase of being very challenging for Miss xxxxx and this resulted in Miss xxxxx having a minor breakdown. Miss xxxxx felt that I was turning Sally against her and was instructed by Miss xxxxx that she did not want to see myself or Sally ever again. I was to collect all of Sally's possessions from the garage when instructed to do so.
During this time I was sent a torrent of abuse by Miss xxxxx via text message.

A few days later Miss xxxxx attended my property at circa 21:30 one evening kicking at the front door. Miss xxxxx demanded I hand Sally over or she would call the Police. This whole scenario caused Sally massive distress.

The following morning I called social services to inform them of the events and to raise my concerns for the safety of Sally.

Sally had always had a fabulous relationship with Miss xxxxx's parents. They would see Sally circa twice a week and Sally would stay over with them on a very regular basis.
Over the Christmas period the relationship between Miss xxxxx and her family broke down.
The last time that Sally saw or spoke with her Grandparents was Christmas day.......

I have spoken with Miss xxxxxx's father many times and he is distraught.

During January and February of this year I continued to visit and see Sally as I always had done. Unfortunately as of 2 weeks ago Miss xxxxx has refused to allow me to see Sally. I believe the reason for this is that she does not believe that I take enough responsibility for Sally . With my shift work it is often difficult for me to have Sally overnight at weekends etc.

I requested a week's annual leave from work over the Easter period. The reason for this is that Sally's birthday is on Sunday April 5th and I would have planned things to do with Sally over my week's leave.

On Wednesday evening at circa 17:00pm I spoke with Sally on facetime (something I do a couple of times a day), Sally informed me that they were going on holiday over Easter.
I texted Miss xxxxx and was alarmed to discover that they had indeed booked a holiday over Easter and they would indeed be away over Sally's birthday.

I was very annoyed and upset by this revelation and did send Miss xxxxx a couple of text message calling her an F.... bh and that not letting Sally see me was evil.
I had also sent Miss xxxxx a similar message circa a week before this. This text stated that I did not see her actions as mean, horrible, selfish etc but evil.

Myself and Sally did have a wonderful relationship and Sally also had a fabulous relationship with my family.

After I sent Miss xxxxx these messages (at 17:45 on 25/03/2015) I received a text back. This message asked for the garage door fob to be posted through her letter box after 9pm that evening and that I was no longer permitted access. Miss xxxxx stated that she would be terminating the power supply to the garage form the consumer panel within the house. I was told to arrange transportation of the vehicle in there.

I was now naturally rather irate and decided I would visit the property. After knocking on the door and not getting a reply, I entered the garage and decided that I would remove the door handle from the upvc door at the back of the garage. This door leads into the garden. My thought process was that if I removed the handle / lock, whilst Miss xxxxx was on holiday I would be able to enter the garden via the side gate and carry on work with the car.

I left the property after removing the handle and returned home (18:00).

At circa 19:30 2 police officers attended my address and I was arrested for criminal damage. I was taken to xxxxx Police station.
After going through the initial procedures I was put into a cell for circa four and half hours.
I was then led back to the custody suite where I was arrested for the second time by the same two officers. The second arrest was for along the lines of sending threatening text messages.

I was then taken into an interview room for questioning, all was recorded. Firstly we discussed my actions of entering the garage and the removal of the door handle. I put my case forward strongly and that was that I did not believe this to constitute criminal damage. I had removed the handle via the 2 locating screws and no permanent damage was sustained. I also mentioned that it was me that had actually purchased and fitted that handle some years before.

I was shown a picture of the door from the garden side. This picture clearly showed no handle on the door and therefore it was put forward that the door as it stood was not fit for purpose. This I agreed with.

We then moved on to discuss the text messages that I had sent.
At the time of my arrest my mobile phone was taken by the officers.

I was shown 3 screen shots from my phone of the messages that I had sent. I was asked if I thought that the messages were threatening etc. I accepted that they came across as aggressive/threatening but any parent who was being denied access to see their own child would feel the same.

The interview was completed and I was placed back into a cell for a further hour.

At circa 03:30am I was let out of my cell and after finger prints and DNA being taken was taken back to the custody suite.

I was handed my belongings back minus my mobile phone. I enquired as to where my phone was and was informed it was either being withheld for investigation or the arresting officer had taken it by mistake.
I was given the arresting officers number and I was told to call them the following day.

I have been given a piece of paper: pre-charge conditional bail. I am to attend Staines Police station on 29/04/15 at 8am.

It has 2 clauses on it

1) You are not to contact directly or indirectly by any means Miss xxxxx.
Grounds: Committing an offence whilst on bail; interfering with witnesses or otherwise obstructing the course of justice / Victim in the case.

2) You are not to attend xx xxxxxx Road unless agreed by official solicitors acting on behalf of the victim.x
Grounds: Same as above.

I informed the custody suite member of staff that I spoke with Saly everyday via facetime and I was gong to continue to do so.

I had a taxi booked and arrived home at circa 04:45am.

After work that day after a few attempts I managed to contact the arresting officer who informed me that my phone had indeed been retained for further enquiries. He gave me the contact name of a DCI or was now in charge of the case. I made a couple of unsuccessful attempts to contact this person to try and find out how long they would keep my phone.

My phone, like it is to many is business critical.

On the 24/03/15 I was sent a new handset by O2. An hour before my arrest I had backed up my phone as at the time of my arrest I was about to start using the new handset.

After speaking with the arresting officer and being told they were retaining my phone, I called O2 who immediately activated my new handset.
I have no doubt therefore that the handset that is being held by the Police will now have no network connection.

I am in the process of selling my property, buying another property and arranging a family funeral. My phone is essential.

The following needs to be established:

Am I perverting the course of justice in any way by using my new mobile phone handset? I am happy for the police to look at any data stored on the handset that they now hold. Next week when the Police begin to look at the phone are they going to raise questions with it being off-line / not connected?

What is worst case scenario? I believe that the only law I breeched whilst at xx xxxxxxx Road on the 25/03/15 was that of trespass.

My main concerns are that if an in-depth and thorough search Is made on my mobile phone that messages that I sent over the past 14 months will be found and some will be of an intimidating/threatening nature toward Miss xxxxx and/or Mr xxxxx. Although this may be the case I am sure that many people in the same position would have acted the same. To be honest; I am sure that I have received my fair share of abusive texts from Miss xxxxx over the same time frame.

Do you think I need to have you / a legal representative in attendance for my hearing at xxxxx Police station on the 29/04/2015?

I sincerely apologise for the length of this e-mail but feel that all of it in some way adds to the events of the 25th March.

Kind Regards




Ok guys; again sorry for the length but hope you understand it is pretty relevant stuff.

Will the Police be able to access mobile phone records etc with the phone off-line?

What punishment am I looking at?

Any sensible advice is massively welcome. Please do not get me wrong, I know I have made major errors but feel I need guidance moving forward having never dealt with something like this before.

Regards

Silent1

19,761 posts

235 months

Friday 27th March 2015
quotequote all
Get a solicitor and stop talking to the police without a solicitor, admitting anything is not going to help your case.

Tom1312

1,021 posts

146 months

Friday 27th March 2015
quotequote all
You really should have taken the free legal representation.

It's sounds like a proper mess. though not an uncommon one and I'm sorry to hear it's causing you much agro.

Good luck.

Mk3Spitfire

2,921 posts

128 months

Friday 27th March 2015
quotequote all
I would definitely get a brief.
I can't imagine you're committing offences by using the new handset. As far as I'm aware, they will still be able to access your messaging history etc regardless of the network being active.
Sadly for you, domestic incidents are taken so seriously, you can expect to be in for a tough time. Good luck. Get a brief.

agtlaw

6,712 posts

206 months

Friday 27th March 2015
quotequote all
The police don't need the phone to be 'online'. You haven't done anything wrong by replacing it. They will get call and text records (both in and out) from the network provider. They don't need the handset but you won't likely get that back until the case concludes.

First offence, if admitted, is often a caution.

Do not attend the police station without a solicitor. It's free of charge so why would you go it alone?

TROOPER88

Original Poster:

1,767 posts

179 months

Friday 27th March 2015
quotequote all
Tom1312 said:
You really should have taken the free legal representation.

It's sounds like a proper mess. though not an uncommon one and I'm sorry to hear it's causing you much agro.

Good luck.
I am speaking with a criminal lawyer on Monday.

Upon arrival at the police station I was offered a solicitor to which I accepted.

After about 4 hours in the cell I called the desk. I asked what was going on and was told the duty solicitor is at the station but working on another case which was taking a long time.
At this point I stated that I would carry on alone if it speeded the process up.

Thanks for the comments so far guys.

TROOPER88

Original Poster:

1,767 posts

179 months

Friday 27th March 2015
quotequote all
agtlaw said:
The police don't need the phone to be 'online'. You haven't done anything wrong by replacing it. They will get call and text records (both in and out) from the network provider. They don't need the handset but you won't likely get that back until the case concludes.

First offence, if admitted, is often a caution.

Do not attend the police station without a solicitor. It's free of charge so why would you go it alone?
Thanks
How would I go about getting free legal representation?



agtlaw

6,712 posts

206 months

Friday 27th March 2015
quotequote all
Silent1 said:
Get a solicitor and stop talking to the police without a solicitor, admitting anything is not going to help your case.
An admission is a prerequisite to a caution, so perhaps it is.

Mk3Spitfire

2,921 posts

128 months

Friday 27th March 2015
quotequote all
TROOPER88 said:
Thanks
How would I go about getting free legal representation?
When you answer bail, you will be given the same righs as when you were first booked in. One of which being "would you like a solicitor". Say yes. Although you really should have waited for one the first time.

Silent1

19,761 posts

235 months

Friday 27th March 2015
quotequote all
agtlaw said:
Silent1 said:
Get a solicitor and stop talking to the police without a solicitor, admitting anything is not going to help your case.
An admission is a prerequisite to a caution, so perhaps it is.
Perhaps I should have qualified it with admitting anything without legal advice is unlikely to help you. Also cautions aren't a good thing, they're quite often treated in the same way as a conviction.

Mk3Spitfire

2,921 posts

128 months

Friday 27th March 2015
quotequote all
Silent1 said:
Perhaps I should have qualified it with admitting anything without legal advice is unlikely to help you. Also cautions aren't a good thing, they're quite often treated in the same way as a conviction.
I would argue that given the option of a caution or a conviction by being charged to court, a caution IS a good thing.

TROOPER88

Original Poster:

1,767 posts

179 months

Friday 27th March 2015
quotequote all
Also with regard to the text messages, both from me to my ex and vice versa.

They were not actually texts in the normal fashion but all were sent via Whats app.

I am not sure if this makes any difference?

When I switched on my new handset for the first time and downloaded Whats app, all of my messages are not there, not one.

Now I have never transferred anything to iCloud.

Will all of the Whats app messages be easy to trace?

TooLateForAName

4,747 posts

184 months

Friday 27th March 2015
quotequote all
Edit out the daughters name?

eldar

21,739 posts

196 months

Friday 27th March 2015
quotequote all
TROOPER88 said:
I am speaking with a criminal lawyer on Monday.

Upon arrival at the police station I was offered a solicitor to which I accepted.

After about 4 hours in the cell I called the desk. I asked what was going on and was told the duty solicitor is at the station but working on another case which was taking a long time.
At this point I stated that I would carry on alone if it speeded the process up.

Thanks for the comments so far guys.
"At this point I stated that I would carry on alone if it speeded the process up."

Bad idea, really. Be patient, and wait for representation before you make any statement at all.

agtlaw

6,712 posts

206 months

Friday 27th March 2015
quotequote all
TROOPER88 said:
Thanks
How would I go about getting free legal representation?
Get a firm with a criminal legal aid franchise. Start here:

http://solicitors.lawsociety.org.uk

Look at websites. Contact a firm you like the look of. I'd insist on a solicitor rather than a legal rep. If they can't promise this, go elsewhere.

TROOPER88

Original Poster:

1,767 posts

179 months

Friday 27th March 2015
quotequote all
TooLateForAName said:
Edit out the daughters name?
Her name is not Sally

Terzo123

4,311 posts

208 months

Friday 27th March 2015
quotequote all
TROOPER88 said:
Also with regard to the text messages, both from me to my ex and vice versa.

They were not actually texts in the normal fashion but all were sent via Whats app.

I am not sure if this makes any difference?

When I switched on my new handset for the first time and downloaded Whats app, all of my messages are not there, not one.

Now I have never transferred anything to iCloud.

Will all of the Whats app messages be easy to trace?
The messages will be recorded elsewhere, your ex's phone for one.

agtlaw

6,712 posts

206 months

Friday 27th March 2015
quotequote all
Silent1 said:
Perhaps I should have qualified it with admitting anything without legal advice is unlikely to help you. Also cautions aren't a good thing, they're quite often treated in the same way as a conviction.
Disagree. If the case is overwhelming then a caution is better than a conviction. And much much cheaper,

mph1977

12,467 posts

168 months

Friday 27th March 2015
quotequote all
agtlaw said:
Do not attend the police station without a solicitor. It's free of charge so why would you go it alone?
this is the one piece of advice that is seemingly forgotten by so many people

- do not go into a police interview without a brief


you have played into your ex's hands and damaged your chances of shared custody / good access to your daughter for the want of piece of inanimate goods .

PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

157 months

Friday 27th March 2015
quotequote all
You are banged to rights on the texts, but thinking outside the box about the garage.

I appreciate that it's on her property but that does not necessarily mean she owns it. Did you pay for it to be built? Did you gift it to her? If yes and no, you could argue you own it and they can't charge you with damaging your own property.

I hope you get the contact sorted, a crazy ex is the worst thing possible.