Buying a car - registered keeper / owner

[LoonR1]

jay44 said:

It's going to be my mum, and I will only be on the policy on a week by week basis. I'm doing online quotes and have done the following combinations:

A) me owner, mum rk, me main, mum named
B) me owner, mum rk, mum main, me named
C) mum owner, mum rk, me main, mum named
D) mum owner, mum rk, mum main, me named

only A and C yield results (same quote price) and B & D flag up concerns and have to call up. I'm 21 and have no no claims, license for 3 years so it's going to be high. As I'm only driving for 15 weeks a year (uni most of the time) it's much better to go on a week, by week basis.

My mum is divorced and has reverted back to her maiden name, so it will look like I'm writing a completely different person on the V5 when it comes time to sign after purchase. will the dealer just not care or what? it is a 2nd hand, cheapy dealer, not like an official branded one

Fronting at best, which is a problem ,but unlikely to involve the police. More likely, outright Insurance fraud. Criminal offence.

Hugely dodgy. No matter how clever you think you are, we've been there and seen all of this before. If you can't afford insurance, you can't afford the car.

[AlexRS2782]

This is almost as good as the lad on the other thread claiming he couldn't pay a fine because he was young and had a life to live and needed the ££££, YOLO, etc

Based on your previous threads don't forget to tell the insurer about all the dodgy modifications you'll be fitting to the car upon purchase, and see how that changes the policy price.

Unless of course you intend to fail to disclose those, which I assume you will be based on your intention to take out a fraudulent insurance policy and get your mum to front you

Edited by AlexRS2782 on Tuesday 31st March 21:30

[LoonR1]

I'll just leave this here for the OP

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-1171729...

And this


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/mobile/england/7437222.stm

[speedking31]

btcc123 said:

You said you are 21 and have no NCB,licence for 3 years and think you said that its your first car.

I put my 17 year old son with a 3 month provisional licence as the insurance policyholder and me and the wife as the named drivers 55 and 51 years old. Car is a 2003 Toyota Yaris 1.0 worth about £1300 with Quinn Direct for £366 fully comp.

It will depend on how many years NCB your mum has and the type of car you want to buy but with a bit of searching around there are some good deals to be had. I realise that when my son passes his driving test the premium will go up.

Or as your your mum to be the policyholder and you to be a full or part time named driver should no be too expensive.

L driver scenario is massively different.

[LoonR1]

Just realised its school holidays again and April Fools Day tomorrow, so this could just be a 13 year old's wind up.

[22Rgt]

jay44 said:

So it'll be slightly dodgy and that will be that. I will chance it this way.

Why bother insuring it at all??
Committing fraud with insurance ,signing someone elses signature and boasting about it on the net, very fkin clever, and this is the type at 'Uni'. What a fkin bellend..

[photosnob]

LoonR1 said:

I'll just leave this here for the OP

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-1171729...

And this


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/mobile/england/7437222.stm

What have a failing to declare modifications and a dangerous driving charge got to do with being creative with name of main driver?

Being serious for a minute you know as well as I do that unless someone admits it (usually post accident) you can never prove fronting. Insurance fraud you say... Please provide a link to a conviction for fraud similar to the ops case... And please give me one example of a claim being denied due to fronting alone unless the person admits it.

[Mopar440]

22Rgt said:

What a fkin bellend..

The irony is strong here....

[Old Merc]

I thought you had to be intelligent and pass exams to go to uni ??
When people are there they listen to advice and progress.

[LoonR1]

photosnob said:

LoonR1 said:

I'll just leave this here for the OP

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-1171729...

And this


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/mobile/england/7437222.stm

What have a failing to declare modifications and a dangerous driving charge got to do with being creative with name of main driver?

Being serious for a minute you know as well as I do that unless someone admits it (usually post accident) you can never prove fronting. Insurance fraud you say... Please provide a link to a conviction for fraud similar to the ops case... And please give me one example of a claim being denied due to fronting alone unless the person admits it.

Google the full story. Anne Bissmire (the mother) fronted the policy for her son on a heavily modified car. Just like the OP's plan.

[photosnob]

LoonR1 said:

Google the full story. Anne Bissmire (the mother) fronted the policy for her son on a heavily modified car. Just like the OP's plan.

Well aware of that. Was she convicted of that? Or was the modifications the way to bang them for it?

I'm not advocating fronting. But the idea that it's likely you will get caught is wrong. Hundreds of thousands of Middle class kids do it each year. Sometimes it's ambiguous who the main driver even is...

The truth is - no insurer would stand in court or face the fos with no evidence. And unless it's admitted you will never have evidence.

[LoonR1]

photosnob said:

Well aware of that. Was she convicted of that? Or was the modifications the way to bang them for it?

I'm not advocating fronting. But the idea that it's likely you will get caught is wrong. Hundreds of thousands of Middle class kids do it each year. Sometimes it's ambiguous who the main driver even is...

The truth is - no insurer would stand in court or face the fos with no evidence. And unless it's admitted you will never have evidence.

Yeah, my mistake. We've never done this and Diamond, just made this whole thing up and it didn't go to court either. The reporter made this whole story up as well.

Are you really this daft? Of course fronting exists, it's a piece of piss to prove and it's very rare nowadays, because we're pretty clued up on it.

As for this "all powerful" FOS that you think insurers fear, then you're very much mistaken on that as well.

[photosnob]

LoonR1 said:

Yeah, my mistake. We've never done this and Diamond, just made this whole thing up and it didn't go to court either. The reporter made this whole story up as well.

Are you really this daft? Of course fronting exists, it's a piece of piss to prove and it's very rare nowadays, because we're pretty clued up on it.

As for this "all powerful" FOS that you think insurers fear, then you're very much mistaken on that as well.

Then why are you posting tenuous links to cases which are not fronting... If it's so common and easy to prove why are there no links to actually fronting being shown? Why are there no newspaper articles warning people how insurers have wises up... All I have ever seen is the claim was rejected after a silly 17 year old girl told the insurers it was her car but in her dads name for cheaper insurance.

How do you prove it then? Seriously... I'm not asking you to give away trade secrets. But short of people admitting it how do you get any evidence?

I'm not saying the fos is all powerful. I'm saying that no sensible company is going to waste time and resourcing on a case they have virtually no chance of winning. If they were as useless as you suggest companies would not have teams set up with the sole intention of stopping customers escalating complaints that far.

[LoonR1]

photosnob said:

LoonR1 said:

Yeah, my mistake. We've never done this and Diamond, just made this whole thing up and it didn't go to court either. The reporter made this whole story up as well.

Are you really this daft? Of course fronting exists, it's a piece of piss to prove and it's very rare nowadays, because we're pretty clued up on it.

As for this "all powerful" FOS that you think insurers fear, then you're very much mistaken on that as well.

Then why are you posting tenuous links to cases which are not fronting... If it's so common and easy to prove why are there no links to actually fronting being shown? Why are there no newspaper articles warning people how insurers have wises up... All I have ever seen is the claim was rejected after a silly 17 year old girl told the insurers it was her car but in her dads name for cheaper insurance.

How do you prove it then? Seriously... I'm not asking you to give away trade secrets. But short of people admitting it how do you get any evidence?

I'm not saying the fos is all powerful. I'm saying that no sensible company is going to waste time and resourcing on a case they have virtually no chance of winning. If they were as useless as you suggest companies would not have teams set up with the sole intention of stopping customers escalating complaints that far.

The Anne Bissmire case is the apex of fronting cases. It is the perfect case study

Google "insurance Fronting UK" there are dozens of newspaper articles that come up on the first page

We prove it by saying "hello Mr Customer, we have some concerns about your claim. Here are our concerns. As a result we might not pay out on this claim, if you continue with it and these are the consequences if your claim is indeed dodgy. Would you like to continue with your claim, or wothdraw it!" They tend to wothdraw it.

These teams that you refer to are part of the agreed three stage escalation process for complaints.

Stage 1 deal at point of complaint
Stage 2 refer to management within the department that took the complaint
Stage 3 refer to independent Customer Relations team
Stage 4 FOS

The FCA and FOS expect this process to be adhered to prior to any escalated complaint landing on their doormat. It's easy when you ip understand it,as I do. It's even easier to make false assumptions when you don't understand it, as you clearly don't.

[Roo]

Mopar440 said:

22Rgt said:

What a fkin bellend..

The irony is strong here....

In fairness, it's the only thing he's ever said that I'd agree with.

[photosnob]

LoonR1 said:

The Anne Bissmire case is the apex of fronting cases. It is the perfect case study

Google "insurance Fronting UK" there are dozens of newspaper articles that come up on the first page

We prove it by saying "hello Mr Customer, we have some concerns about your claim. Here are our concerns. As a result we might not pay out on this claim, if you continue with it and these are the consequences if your claim is indeed dodgy. Would you like to continue with your claim, or wothdraw it!" They tend to wothdraw it.

These teams that you refer to are part of the agreed three stage escalation process for complaints.

Stage 1 deal at point of complaint
Stage 2 refer to management within the department that took the complaint
Stage 3 refer to independent Customer Relations team
Stage 4 FOS

The FCA and FOS expect this process to be adhered to prior to any escalated complaint landing on their doormat. It's easy when you ip understand it,as I do. It's even easier to make false assumptions when you don't understand it, as you clearly don't.

Your right loon, you do understand this more than I ever will. However I have done a bit of work in low level customer service for an energy company. So I do understand how customers are fobbed off unless they escalate things properly. My experience was that the poor, stupid and vulnerable to being fobbed off and I personally wasn't comfortable being part of a system like that.

The case you suggest may be significant to you. To me it just means there are no cases actually involving fronting. And it's unlikely there ever will be.

As far as trying to bully a customer into withdrawing a claim... Well if you think that's moral its up to you. I wouldn't be pushed around like that. I also question how legitimate it is when it comes to third party claims. All I take from that is you have no way of proving fronting and just try and coerce customers into not perusing claims.

[LoonR1]

photosnob said:

Your right loon, you do understand this more than I ever will. However I have done a bit of work in low level customer service for an energy company. So I do understand how customers are fobbed off unless they escalate things properly. My experience was that the poor, stupid and vulnerable to being fobbed off and I personally wasn't comfortable being part of a system like that.

The case you suggest may be significant to you. To me it just means there are no cases actually involving fronting. And it's unlikely there ever will be.

As far as trying to bully a customer into withdrawing a claim... Well if you think that's moral its up to you. I wouldn't be pushed around like that. I also question how legitimate it is when it comes to third party claims. All I take from that is you have no way of proving fronting and just try and coerce customers into not perusing claims.

How many times do I have to say this. The whole point of that case was to prove fronting. It was a fronting case. Anne a Bissmire fronted the policy for her son. The policy was bought fraudulently so that she could front it for her son.

Clear enough?

As for the rest of it. We know it's a fraufpdulemt claim and we give them the opportunity to withdraw it, or we proceed, repudiate amd refer to the police for potential prosecution. There is no "bullying". Or do you see it as "bullying" op if a shop asks someone to pay for that CD tha peeve stuck down their trousers, rather than wait for the "spcustoemr" to walk out of the shop andi t become a police matter?

If you wouldn't be "pushed around like that" then either you've nothing to hide, so this situation wouldn't happen to you, or you're too stupid to know when your fraud has been discovered and insist on incriminating yourself further.

Are you jsut being deliberately obtuse now, or are you really struggling with this? We have many, many ways of proving fronting. You should never underestimate the stupidity of people. Here are some examples of this

"I was driving to work like I do every day, when I crashed the car"
"I know the car very well as I'm the only one who forces it"
"I wamt to keep my private plate, as it's my intials"

All of these were people reporting claims on cars where they were a named driver. There are literally hundreds of these. Finding out about fronting is as simple as
1. Who was driving
2. If a nepamed driver, ask where they were going
3. Ask them if they do the journey often
4. Thank them and ring them back a few days later to discuss whether they really want to claim, or wothdraw it
5a close the claim of they withdraw
5b repudiate the claim, log on records as a fraudulent claim and refer claim for fraud prosecution.

[photosnob]

LoonR1 said:

How many times do I have to say this. The whole point of that case was to prove fronting. It was a fronting case. Anne a Bissmire fronted the policy for her son. The policy was bought fraudulently so that she could front it for her son.

Clear enough?

As for the rest of it. We know it's a fraufpdulemt claim and we give them the opportunity to withdraw it, or we proceed, repudiate amd refer to the police for potential prosecution. There is no "bullying". Or do you see it as "bullying" op if a shop asks someone to pay for that CD tha peeve stuck down their trousers, rather than wait for the "spcustoemr" to walk out of the shop andi t become a police matter?

If you wouldn't be "pushed around like that" then either you've nothing to hide, so this situation wouldn't happen to you, or you're too stupid to know when your fraud has been discovered and insist on incriminating yourself further.

Are you jsut being deliberately obtuse now, or are you really struggling with this? We have many, many ways of proving fronting. You should never underestimate the stupidity of people. Here are some examples of this

"I was driving to work like I do every day, when I crashed the car"
"I know the car very well as I'm the only one who forces it"
"I wamt to keep my private plate, as it's my intials"

All of these were people reporting claims on cars where they were a named driver. There are literally hundreds of these. Finding out about fronting is as simple as
1. Who was driving
2. If a nepamed driver, ask where they were going
3. Ask them if they do the journey often
4. Thank them and ring them back a few days later to discuss whether they really want to claim, or wothdraw it
5a close the claim of they withdraw
5b repudiate the claim, log on records as a fraudulent claim and refer claim for fraud prosecution.

You see things as black and white where I don't. Unless you are perfect and only employ perfect people you will make a mistake at some point and potentially have that person withdraw a legitimate claim. Sounds daft doesn't it... But look at how intelligent professional people on here react to small problems with anything but including insurance. Now take a person with mental health problems or other vumerability and use the same tactic. I don't agree with it. Sorry but I don't. Anymore than I agree to the police using techniques like that to implicate people. In terms of evidence - I can point to plenty where people have admitted and been convicted only to be exonerated at a later date with Dna evidence when they have been put under pressure.

[LoonR1]

photosnob said:

You see things as black and white where I don't. Unless you are perfect and only employ perfect people you will make a mistake at some point and potentially have that person withdraw a legitimate claim. Sounds daft doesn't it... But look at how intelligent professional people on here react to small problems with anything but including insurance. Now take a person with mental health problems or other vumerability and use the same tactic. I don't agree with it. Sorry but I don't. Anymore than I agree to the police using techniques like that to implicate people. In terms of evidence - I can point to plenty where people have admitted and been convicted only to be exonerated at a later date with Dna evidence when they have been put under pressure.

I lost interest in what you care about a long time ago. I see we're now off on a tangent and that everyone is a mental health sufferer amd the bd insurance companies re out to shaft them, before lobby them in the Loony Bin for the rest of their lives

If someone has nothing to hide then firstly it's extremely unlikely that they'll be asked if they would like to wothdraw a claim. Secondly, if they were askedmp, then with nothing to hide they can continue the claim. Once in a while a claim is repudiated that shouldn't be, but they tend to get rectified quickly, with a (financial) apology.

I don't see things as black amd white, but the accusation is somewhat ironic, given your propensity for making bold absolute assertions.

[jay44]

Jesus f*cking christ, people

she will be clocking more miles than I will, throughout the year as her car isn't so reliable and will use this car as a backup. So really and truely, she will be the main driver. I am only choosing to go on for x amount of weeks per year, rather than being on a named driver. nothing dodgy about that at all, just the way i've written it - and the lack of care i have either way, even if it is