Told my employer I was leaving, didn't end well!

[JJ55]

I'm afraid you've been a little naive here Craig. You tried to do the moral & right thing by giving them extra notice for the excellent & noble reasons you have already listed. However I imagine the minute you told them you would be going self employed in the same/ similar field you work in now they would from a businesses point of view have no choice but to let you go.

The standard reason businesses do this is 1. client details can't be stolen, 2 you can't be visiting their clients while working for them & trying to poach them 3 you can't start stealing their staff to take with you. It's hard to say more without know what it is you do for a living. I'm sure this isn't a personal attack on you from them, but just a case of them following whatever their company protocol is in covering their arses! I'm sure someone will be along to correct me on above points shortly!


Best of luck with your new venture I'm sure it will be a resounding success

[CraigJ]

Mermaid said:

prevent any risk to them.

This bit I do find funny as it was said to me today by my manager. I'm not sure what risk me on my own will pose to a wolrdwide multi-billion Euro company .

[daveinhampshire]

I suspect they have rules in place especially if they have an awareness you may be competing with them at some level. Simply because they are a large company doesn't mean they are unaware of threats, a small contract loss can be the difference between profit and loss.

I'd move on, get some agency work in if you can and like others have said, give people the minimum amount of information, you do not owe them anything. Loyalty from employers to employees has long gone, they can't complain when that is reciprocated.

[vanordinaire]

Isn't this unfair dismissal?

[CraigJ]

daveinhampshire said:

I suspect they have rules in place especially if they have an awareness you may be competing with them at some level. Simply because they are a large company doesn't mean they are unaware of threats, a small contract loss can be the difference between profit and loss.

I'd move on, get some agency work in if you can and like others have said, give people the minimum amount of information, you do not owe them anything. Loyalty from employers to employees has long gone, they can't complain when that is reciprocated.

I understand this. To clear it up there contracts are on a warranty basis for the product they supply. I will not have anything to do with there warranty work.

What i will be doing is offering work on out of warranty items plus other work in similar field that they do not offer at all.

I was in this trade before I worked for them. They approached me to work for them 3 years ago. I already had built up a business relationship with all the clients before I worked for this company.

Edited by CraigJ on Tuesday 31st March 20:01

[daveinhampshire]

CraigJ said:

I understand this. To clear it up there contracts are on a warranty basis for the product they supply. I will not have anything to do with there warranty work.

What i will be doing is offering work on out of warranty items plus other work in similar field that they dont not offer at all.

I was in this trade before I worked for them. They approached me to work for them 3 years ago. I already had built up a business relationship with all the clients before I worked for this company.

They can get really nasty about anything near their work, I've seen huge companies make life hell for little one man setups. I've been in business long enough to know just to walk away most of the time, at least you won't have any love loss towards them if you do take any of their business.

[TooMany2cvs]

Mermaid said:

NO he has been paid off - one month's salary in lieu - and told to shoo off forthwith to prevent any risk to them.

Ah, OK - not as clear from the OP as it could have been.

<shrug> The contractual month's notice without actually having to go to work. Again, there's a downside?

[Busa mav]

CraigJ said:

Are they allowed to do this legally? or do I have any legal right to ask for the two months pay I would have earned?

Craig , as has been mentioned already , you were naive , not an insult , you should take it as a compliment.

Forget the " what are my rights attitude " and move on.

You are going self employed and you will come across situations far more trying than this.

Move on , last thing you want in any industry is being known as a whinger.

Anyone telling you what your rights are etc etc , just ignore and go out there and choose what you want to earn, it's now up to you to decide your fortune. Making enemies isn't a good start

[CraigJ]

TooMany2cvs said:

Ah, OK - not as clear from the OP as it could have been.

<shrug> The contractual month's notice without actually having to go to work. Again, there's a downside?

The downside is i would have worked for 3 more months not 1. So i am out of pocket around 6K.

[Mopar440]

JJ55 said:

I'm afraid you've been a little naive here Craig. You tried to do the moral & right thing by giving them extra notice for the excellent & noble reasons you have already listed. However I imagine the minute you told them you would be going self employed in the same/ similar field you work in now they would from a businesses point of view have no choice but to let you go.

The standard reason businesses do this is 1. client details can't be stolen, 2 you can't be visiting their clients while working for them & trying to poach them 3 you can't start stealing their staff to take with you. It's hard to say more without know what it is you do for a living. I'm sure this isn't a personal attack on you from them, but just a case of them following whatever their company protocol is in covering their arses! I'm sure someone will be along to correct me on above points shortly!

^^^ This.

I really wonder what the OP thought was going to happen? I think in most companies you'd be marched out the door in similar circumstances. Business is business, as the OP has found out.

[KFC]

CraigJ said:

The downside is i would have worked for 3 more months not 1. So i am out of pocket around 6K.

You were very naive.

Your employer is stuck between a rock and a hard place though. Throw you out tomorrow with a months notice in your hand and every other employee in the place will now know not to give any more notice than they legally have to. But if they'd let you stay you could have caused them all sorts of problems. So they couldn't really win either way could they. All things considered I'd probably have done what they done.

[CraigJ]

Mopar440 said:

^^^ This.

I really wonder what the OP thought was going to happen? I think in most companies you'd be marched out the door in similar circumstances. Business is business, as the OP has found out.

So your saying its ok to simply dismiss an employee because he is going self employed?

I'm not trying to get into a legal battle if what they have done is all above board. I'm just asking if it is legal.

They way it comes across is that I have made them aware I'm leaving in 3 months so I have been sacked and give a months pay for my trouble.

I didn't give the 1 months notice. I sent an Email asking i was to give 1 or 3 months. Only last week a different Employee sent his Notice via email. He was told by HR that they could not accept it and he had to sent it in in writing.

[Jasandjules]

What reason have they given to terminate your employment?

[essayer]

Jasandjules said:

What reason have they given to terminate your employment?

Ask for the reason in writing, as is your legal right.

[belly2002]

OP, you're getting lots of responses saying take it on the chin and learn from it'. Decide for yourself whether you want to listen.

You've also got quite a few 'they've paid you your notice period so they've done nothing wrong legally'. That's bad advice.

By putting you on garden leave rather than allowing you to work the one months notice then technically they may be in breach of contract if your contract with them does not include provisions to allow for it. If so you could potentially claim for wrongful dismissal (just the employment law terminology for a breach of contract claim). But if it's an organisation big enough to have an HR department, chances are your contract will include probably include the relevant provisions and in any case it's not usually worth pursuing becasue you wouldn't have been any better off had they performed the contract properly, so have no loss to claim for.

However, just because it's not wrongful dismissal doesn't mean it's not unfair dismissal. That's a statutory claim where the employer can be liable to pay compensation calculated by a formula if the reason for dismissal wasn't 'fair' (in a legal sense, not a moral one). Precious few facts to go on here, so have a read up on it online and get some advice if you think you might there might be milage in a claim. I'd imagine the CAB would be able to give you some advice as a good first step.

Talking of CAB, there's a reasonable explanation of a lot of it here (including the formula for calculating the award: http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/work_w/work_wo...

Good luck

[Mopar440]

CraigJ said:

Mopar440 said:

^^^ This.

I really wonder what the OP thought was going to happen? I think in most companies you'd be marched out the door in similar circumstances. Business is business, as the OP has found out.

So your saying its ok to simply dismiss an employee because he is going self employed?
I'm not trying to get into a legal battle if what they have done is all above board. I'm just asking if it is legal.
They way it comes across is that I have made them aware I'm leaving in 3 months so I have been sacked and give a months pay for my trouble.
I didn't give the 1 months notice. I sent an Email asking i was to give 1 or 3 months. Only last week a different Employee sent his Notice via email. He was told by HR that they could not accept it and he had to sent it in in writing.

Didn't give your notice? You're changing your story now. In the original post you said:

CraigJ said:

Yesterday I emailed my employer stating I planned to leave the company on the 30th of June this year to go self employed.

But that's neither here nor there.

What did you really expect? This is the real world. You've told them that you are leaving to start up on your own in the same field. Presumably using all the expertise and contacts that you have achieved under their employ. Are you really so naïve?

If you had told them that you were going set up as an aroma-therapist, then there may have been a different outcome.

But any properly run company would have done the same to an errant (soon to be ex-) employee.

And to all the indignant hand-wringers, offering you their keyboard support, the only response I have is...FFS!

[TooMany2cvs]

CraigJ said:

The downside is i would have worked for 3 more months not 1. So i am out of pocket around 6K.

Then you should probably have handed your one month's notice in in two months time...

[belly2002]

Mopar440 said:

And to all the indignant hand-wringers, offering you their keyboard support, the only response I have is...FFS!

A bit patronising don't you think?

For the record, many employers greatly value knowing what's going to be happening ahead of (invariably short) contractual notice periods. Depending on the situation of course. And we don't know what the situation is, exactly since the OP has left only hints as to the full set of facts.

I agree that the OP's move might not have been the best thought out but all the same, he's come on here looking for a steer in directions that might help him, not to be branded a fool. Try adding something constructive.

[LoonR1]

belly2002 said:

OP, you're getting lots of responses saying take it on the chin and learn from it'. Decide for yourself whether you want to listen.

You've also got quite a few 'they've paid you your notice period so they've done nothing wrong legally'. That's bad advice.

By putting you on garden leave rather than allowing you to work the one months notice then technically they may be in breach of contract if your contract with them does not include provisions to allow for it. If so you could potentially claim for wrongful dismissal (just the employment law terminology for a breach of contract claim). But if it's an organisation big enough to have an HR department, chances are your contract will include probably include the relevant provisions and in any case it's not usually worth pursuing becasue you wouldn't have been any better off had they performed the contract properly, so have no loss to claim for.

However, just because it's not wrongful dismissal doesn't mean it's not unfair dismissal. That's a statutory claim where the employer can be liable to pay compensation calculated by a formula if the reason for dismissal wasn't 'fair' (in a legal sense, not a moral one). Precious few facts to go on here, so have a read up on it online and get some advice if you think you might there might be milage in a claim. I'd imagine the CAB would be able to give you some advice as a good first step.

Talking of CAB, there's a reasonable explanation of a lot of it here (including the formula for calculating the award: http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/work_w/work_wo...

Good luck

Out of interest what do you think the outcome would be if his contract fpdidnt allow for him to be placed on garden leave? Bearing in mind that he has been paid. That's the only question I'm asking, put all the other stuff to one side and just focus on that specific question.

[CraigJ]

Mopar440 said:

But that's neither here nor there.

What did you really expect? This is the real world. You've told them that you are leaving to start up on your own in the same field. Presumably using all the expertise and contacts that you have achieved under their employ. Are you really so naïve?

Like I have already stated. I was in this field of work for years before I worked for this company. I was approached by them because of my knowledge and expertise in the field. I already had a business relationship with the clients i worjk with now. The only thing that has changed was the company that paid me each month.

And you dodged my question, are they in there legal right to dismiss me with one months pay because I have stated my intent to leave in 3 months time? I have asked for advice yet all you are doing is spouting crap and building a post count. If you have nothing useful to add then don't fill this thread with your unhelpful crap.