Told my employer I was leaving, didn't end well!

[CraigJ]

Jasandjules said:

I could give you my credentials but I do not feel you will accept my view in any event. And of course if we were all correct, there would be no need for me to represent people in Tribunal. I could even give you case law which I feel goes strongly against you, but once more, I do not feel you would accept this. And again, there may be conflicting case law I am not aware of which would support your claim.

I am genuinely interested. Please do share.

[Willhire89]

Every employers nightmare - employee who decides to go solo on the back of your customer base.

Personally I don't expect the OP's company to roll over on this one despite his confidence

[allergictocheese]

He won't.

[don'tbesilly]

Jasandjules said:

I could give you my credentials but I do not feel you will accept my view in any event. And of course if we were all correct, there would be no need for me to represent people in Tribunal. I could even give you case law which I feel goes strongly against you, but once more, I do not feel you would accept this. And again, there may be conflicting case law I am not aware of which would support your claim.

Apologies for an earlier flippant remark.

I was not aware of your occupation, reading some of your other posts on other threads, my eyes have been opened.

[CraigJ]

Willhire89 said:

Every employers nightmare - employee who decides to go solo on the back of your customer base.

Personally I don't expect the OP's company to roll over on this one despite his confidence

I would agree if this was the case but as I have pointed out quite a few times in this thread I was in this trade working with the same customers long before I worked for my current employer.

[Monkeylegend]

CraigJ said:

Willhire89 said:

Every employers nightmare - employee who decides to go solo on the back of your customer base.

Personally I don't expect the OP's company to roll over on this one despite his confidence

I would agree if this was the case but as I have pointed out quite a few times in this thread I was in this trade working with the same customers long before I worked for my current employer.

So are you saying that when you go back to being self employed you have no intention of poaching your ex-employees customers?

[Willhire89]

CraigJ said:

Willhire89 said:

Every employers nightmare - employee who decides to go solo on the back of your customer base.

Personally I don't expect the OP's company to roll over on this one despite his confidence

I would agree if this was the case but as I have pointed out quite a few times in this thread I was in this trade working with the same customers long before I worked for my current employer.

The past is not relevant to them ....whereas the future is - I'm expecting they won't let this go lightly

[CraigJ]

Monkeylegend said:

So are you saying that when you go back to being self employed you have no intention of poaching your ex-employees customers?

I was never self employed. I never said I was. I worked in the same trade.

And as I have already said when I'm self employed I will be doing more than just what I have been doing for the last 3 years as I will no longer work for a manufacturer so I'm free to work on all the competitors products too which will make no difference to my employer.

[singlecoil]

I wouldn't bother, Craig, some of these posters are just out to get you.

[Monkeylegend]

singlecoil said:

I wouldn't bother, Craig, some of these posters are just out to get you.

No, but as more of this comes out it is clearly not as straightforward as you seem to think it is.

[JustinP1]

CraigJ said:

the Email has been seen by a Contract law solicitor and an Employment law solicitor and neither had a problem with the wording. Unless any one here can show there credentials in employment law it seems pointless trying to argue over one word.

If you've ever been to County Court or an ET you'll see that there are two parties who have gained legal advice, and on the basis of that are so confident of their chances that they risk spending their own money up front on legal representation and also risk paying for the other parties legal representation and court costs.

Only one of them is proven right.


Let me be clear - I see where you are coming from, but there's the other side of the coin. I'll play Devil's Advocate if I were your employer, and I was bloody minded:

I'd tell you to bugger off, and tell you you'd resigned. IF you were willing to take it that far, which I'd doubt, I'd argue that you resigned - highlighting the unambiguous heading of your email, on the expectation that you'd receive 3 months gardening leave. I'd say when this did not materialise, that future communications show that you are now backtracking.

The ball's in your court to do anything about it, including spending money on legal advice, and tribunal costs. It would be a reasonable bet that you wouldn't go through with that due to the nagging issue of "I'm writing to give notice..." which *could* throw a spanner in the works when this is put before an unbiased third party.


Whatever the rights or wrongs here, the practical situation you have is IMHO not as rosy as you possibly think. Having a solicitor that believes in your case is different to risking money on it.

[Jonsv8]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I've asked this 3 times.

If I wanted to be an awkward sod, and I had to agree to three months notice under duress on the pretext of helping train his replacement, if he'd not accrued the holiday I'd make him work. So much for the honeymoon.

And if he had accrued it, then he'd be paid his holiday pay anyway

[KFC]

Monkeylegend said:

singlecoil said:

I wouldn't bother, Craig, some of these posters are just out to get you.

No, but as more of this comes out it is clearly not as straightforward as you seem to think it is.

Legally in the right or wrong... who knows (though we all have an opinion).

But with all these things about everyone asking for his contact info etc, I think the employer is right to stick a boot up his arse and have him out the door immediately

[Warmfuzzies]

I think the clues in the title.

Told them I was leaving, it didn't go well.

Despite your belief in semantic language, if I found this thread as your now employer, it would be good bye Craig. You intentions were abundantly clear.

[berlintaxi]

singlecoil said:

I wouldn't bother, Craig, some of these posters are just out to get you.

Or perhaps they can see what is really going on.

[Red Devil]

JustinP1 said:

Let me be clear - I see where you are coming from, but there's the other side of the coin. I'll play Devil's Advocate if I were your employer, and I was bloody minded:

I'd tell you to bugger off, and tell you you'd resigned. IF you were willing to take it that far, which I'd doubt, I'd argue that you resigned - highlighting the unambiguous heading of your email, on the expectation that you'd receive 3 months gardening leave. I'd say when this did not materialise, that future communications show that you are now backtracking.

The ball's in your court to do anything about it, including spending money on legal advice, and tribunal costs. It would be a reasonable bet that you wouldn't go through with that due to the nagging issue of "I'm writing to give notice..." which *could* throw a spanner in the works when this is put before an unbiased third party.

That's exactly what they have done.

CraigJ said:

On asking for the reason for my dismissal I got this reply.

"Good Morning Craig

To confirm we have acknowledged and accepted your resignation not dismissed you.

It was agreed that you would not be required to work your notice. However you will still be paid in full up to and including the 30th April which is your contractual one months’ notice."

Also, as I asked previously - agreed by and between whom? The employer and the OP or internally by his manager and HR? If that is the only communication with the OP it suggests to a further string to the unilateral declaration of intent by the employer. A tactic which is being used to undermine his position in any subsequent proceedings.

However I suspect this could be significant.

CraigJ said:

Today I was asked to meet with my manager. All my work related items were taken from me and I was told I am no longer needed and one months pay will be received.

Was that the full extent of the conversation? If not what else was said by either side?

[anonymous-user]

If I was OP, I wouldn't spend a copper coin on legal advice over this, nor waste another single moment even thinking about it.

I would get on with the preparations for my new business / wedding / honeymoon and put from my mind that I made a mistake in how I handled the timing of my transition from employment to self employment.

[Cyberprog]

JPJPJP said:

If I was OP, I wouldn't spend a copper coin on legal advice over this, nor waste another single moment even thinking about it.

I would get on with the preparations for my new business / wedding / honeymoon and put from my mind that I made a mistake in how I handled the timing of my transition from employment to self employment.

I'd do it a bit different, I'd try to avoid spending any money, but I certainly wouldn't just accept it and move on. I'd fight the company, raise an internal grievance against the decision and possibly I'd consider a small claim rather than an ET for it. The problem is that the way his email was worded was a bit ambiguous, and while I agree with his intentions, it could have been better worded!

Something like;

"Dear Sir/Madam,

I am intending to leave the company on 08/07/15 and would like to know if you would like 1 months notice, or three. I am aware of how my team is down by x people and the company is struggling to recruit people onto it, and I wanted to communicate my intentions so I can assist with any training and manage a smooth transition.

I also have x days holiday that I would like to use for my Wedding & Honeymoon which will fall mid-way through this period.

I would also like to know if I can submit by resignation via eMail or if you need it in writing as Joe Bloggs said he had to submit it in writing.

For the avoidance of doubt, this is not intended as my letter of resignation.

Your Obedient Servant,

Joe Blow"

But hey, hindsight is 20/20

[wolves_wanderer]

JPJPJP said:

If I was OP, I wouldn't spend a copper coin on legal advice over this, nor waste another single moment even thinking about it.

I would get on with the preparations for my new business / wedding / honeymoon and put from my mind that I made a mistake in how I handled the timing of my transition from employment to self employment.

I would be the same. Regardless of the rights or wrongs I doubt that there will be a positive financial outcome after legal costs etc. Having suffered because of honesty and consideration for employers a few years ago, now everything is by the book, if that means more trouble for them them too bad.

[RobinOakapple]

wolves_wanderer said:

JPJPJP said:

If I was OP, I wouldn't spend a copper coin on legal advice over this, nor waste another single moment even thinking about it.

I would get on with the preparations for my new business / wedding / honeymoon and put from my mind that I made a mistake in how I handled the timing of my transition from employment to self employment.

I would be the same. Regardless of the rights or wrongs I doubt that there will be a positive financial outcome after legal costs etc. Having suffered because of honesty and consideration for employers a few years ago, now everything is by the book, if that means more trouble for them them too bad.

It's a shame how so much in life is spoiled by a few people, in this case it's a spiteful employer has now fixed it so that everybody who has read this thread will make damn sure not to give more notice than needed, even though there are plenty of decent employers who would appreciate extra warning.