Merging into one lane accident
Discussion
General Fluff said:
eatcustard said:
and in the real world....
In the real world there are a few idiots who think people merging are somehow cheating the system. Thankfully in 17 years of driving I've managed to avoid them. They are few but they are there.Greengecko said:
as I do so the vehicle (green) hits the accelerator with his vehicle making it through but their trailer (which is greater that the width of the towing vehicle) impacts on the front passenger side of my car (blue) where I'm positioned to merge.
I'm sorry, but this doesn't sound right to me. I think you've just misjudged it.A couple of points for general discussion though: Surely, where one lane merges into another, the traffic in the merging lane has to give way to the traffic in the established lane?
I commute on a route that has a series of these type of junctions; I never go into the 'merging lane' because a) you are entirely dependent upon people on your inside letting you in, and can easily end up in a situation similar to the OP, and b) there is a lot to lose and so very little to gain.
In this case though, I think it might be too easy for the Defender driver saying he was driving along minding his own business (and couldn't have been travelling very rapidly) when the car to his right squeezed over on him and caught his trailer.
Greengecko said:
pinchmeimdreamin said:
No I am trying to understand how if he was a car length past the LR the rear of the trailer hit his car. Bearing in mind this is just after the lights so the LR was probably doing 15-20 at most.
I was indeed roughly a car length past, but saw in the corner of my eye he was accelerating and therefore the gap to move into being closed. I was position diagonally for the merge and braked as he past the rear quarter of my car, I knew I wasn't going to be able to merge in front. At which time he slightly mounted the grass verge and the trailer followed.But I'm another one really not understanding how you were a length in front but yet couldn't get across, though?
When you say you were a length in front, do you mean a clear vehicle length between the rear of your car and the LR or do you mean your rear bumper was alongside the LR's front bumper?
Given that you had only gone perhaps 30m by the time you were hit, and hence speeds would be pretty low, being a clear length in front would have been adequate to just pull across. I can't get why you would brake at that point since the LR wouldn't be capable of creating a huge speed differential between you.
Did you stop because you felt that if you'd pulled across he would have rear-ended you as he was going so much faster?
If so I just can't get my head around how there was such a disparity in speeds, with a trailer-towing LR, after only a few yards.
And http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/stay-left-or-merg... says:-
"Neil Greig is director of policy and research for the Institute of Advanced Motorists. He’s in favour of queuing in both lanes, but says the authorities should give clearer advice on the issue.
He said: “Rule 134 of the Highway Code does actually recommend merging in turn and the IAM have always felt it is an underused technique that would generate more capacity at roadworks by keeping two lanes full until the last few yards.
“BUT it must be backed up by clear signposting including the ‘zip’ merging sign and ‘merge in turn now’ plates."
"Neil Greig is director of policy and research for the Institute of Advanced Motorists. He’s in favour of queuing in both lanes, but says the authorities should give clearer advice on the issue.
He said: “Rule 134 of the Highway Code does actually recommend merging in turn and the IAM have always felt it is an underused technique that would generate more capacity at roadworks by keeping two lanes full until the last few yards.
“BUT it must be backed up by clear signposting including the ‘zip’ merging sign and ‘merge in turn now’ plates."
james7 said:
Personally I dont like the setup as it forces 2 cars together for no real reason.
The benefit must come from allowing 2 or 3 cars to cross the lights from lane 2 and then move off while the traffic behind is held up by the next red phase. An overall increase in capacity. As this junction is not a crossroads, that benefit appears to be small.
PorkInsider said:
I'm certainly not trying to blame you, OP, as I think deliberately trying to stop someone merging is a stupid thing to do, no matter how aggrieved the other driver might have felt.
But I'm another one really not understanding how you were a length in front but yet couldn't get across, though?
When you say you were a length in front, do you mean a clear vehicle length between the rear of your car and the LR or do you mean your rear bumper was alongside the LR's front bumper?
Given that you had only gone perhaps 30m by the time you were hit, and hence speeds would be pretty low, being a clear length in front would have been adequate to just pull across. I can't get why you would brake at that point since the LR wouldn't be capable of creating a huge speed differential between you.
Did you stop because you felt that if you'd pulled across he would have rear-ended you as he was going so much faster?
If so I just can't get my head around how there was such a disparity in speeds, with a trailer-towing LR, after only a few yards.
No worries, essentially my back bumper was in line with his front bumper. I was still accelerating steadily in line with other traffic and was positioned to merge, and had no reason to believe he would accelerate further using the grass verge. But I'm another one really not understanding how you were a length in front but yet couldn't get across, though?
When you say you were a length in front, do you mean a clear vehicle length between the rear of your car and the LR or do you mean your rear bumper was alongside the LR's front bumper?
Given that you had only gone perhaps 30m by the time you were hit, and hence speeds would be pretty low, being a clear length in front would have been adequate to just pull across. I can't get why you would brake at that point since the LR wouldn't be capable of creating a huge speed differential between you.
Did you stop because you felt that if you'd pulled across he would have rear-ended you as he was going so much faster?
If so I just can't get my head around how there was such a disparity in speeds, with a trailer-towing LR, after only a few yards.
I saw in the corner of my eye he was accelerating quicker than I was as he drew level with the rear passenger side door, there was no gap to merge so braked, otherwise I would've been on red hatchings/other side of the road.
Would've done things differently in hindsight but live and learn.
Greengecko said:
No worries, essentially my back bumper was in line with his front bumper. I was still accelerating steadily in line with other traffic and was positioned to merge, and had no reason to believe he would accelerate further using the grass verge.
I saw in the corner of my eye he was accelerating quicker than I was as he drew level with the rear passenger side door, there was no gap to merge so braked, otherwise I would've been on red hatchings/other side of the road.
Would've done things differently in hindsight but live and learn.
He drove on the verge?I saw in the corner of my eye he was accelerating quicker than I was as he drew level with the rear passenger side door, there was no gap to merge so braked, otherwise I would've been on red hatchings/other side of the road.
Would've done things differently in hindsight but live and learn.
It now sounds as if you moved across on him and he had to take avoiding action.
james7 said:
I guess stopping and waiting for there not to be a car to hit would be the best option.
Yes definitely one option.But on another post I did about merge-in-turn there was a situation that due to the vehicles being as close as they were, braking by the car in front would have resulted in an accident. Basically the car trying to prevent the merge was that close to the car that had already started the merge, that contact would have been inevitable.
Each situation is slightly different, but I think an underlying rule should be introduced in to the H-C to clear the 'race for the gap' occurrences that are sometimes mentioned.
heebeegeetee said:
I'm sorry, but this doesn't sound right to me. I think you've just misjudged it.
A couple of points for general discussion though: Surely, where one lane merges into another, the traffic in the merging lane has to give way to the traffic in the established lane?
I commute on a route that has a series of these type of junctions; I never go into the 'merging lane' because a) you are entirely dependent upon people on your inside letting you in, and can easily end up in a situation similar to the OP, and b) there is a lot to lose and so very little to gain.
In this case though, I think it might be too easy for the Defender driver saying he was driving along minding his own business (and couldn't have been travelling very rapidly) when the car to his right squeezed over on him and caught his trailer.
And there is a perfect example of the problem. People scared to use a very simple road layout and of the perception they have the right of way, regardless of whatever else may be going on.A couple of points for general discussion though: Surely, where one lane merges into another, the traffic in the merging lane has to give way to the traffic in the established lane?
I commute on a route that has a series of these type of junctions; I never go into the 'merging lane' because a) you are entirely dependent upon people on your inside letting you in, and can easily end up in a situation similar to the OP, and b) there is a lot to lose and so very little to gain.
In this case though, I think it might be too easy for the Defender driver saying he was driving along minding his own business (and couldn't have been travelling very rapidly) when the car to his right squeezed over on him and caught his trailer.
Driving along minding his own business isn't an excuse. He should have been aware it was a merge point and have an awareness of the other cars around him. Jeez, how do you people survive?
Vipers said:
Have the same situation up here, as you exit the roundabout in the outside lane (inside lane is for the turn off before), we merge into one lane, I always indicate, stop, and wait until someone lets me in.
If I have entered from the other road, and am now in the inside lane, I will always try to let someone merge in front of me but it aggravates me when some folk just barge in, no indicators, just get out of my way attitude.
I go through a similar light controlled roundabout and merge. The snag is you don't want to stop at the merge as the traffic is moving at 10-20MPH and there are reasonable gaps. If I have entered from the other road, and am now in the inside lane, I will always try to let someone merge in front of me but it aggravates me when some folk just barge in, no indicators, just get out of my way attitude.
It should work OK, but there's often some a
hole determined to block you out as they think you're cheating - but if you've joined at an earlier entrance you can't avoid being the RH lane. Recently it was a guy in a 911 who undertook as I started to move across and then stopped to give me a mouthful. :shrug:
The A5 = from left to right...
Single carriage way - opens up to two lanes at the round about. Merges immediately on the exit back to a single lane causing the sort of problem we have here (made worse because you have to navigate side by side around a roundabout). 100m further on opens to a dual carriage way. Either leave it as one lane until the dual or make it 2 from the roundabout
Whoever comes up with these ideas can't have a driving licence.
Single carriage way - opens up to two lanes at the round about. Merges immediately on the exit back to a single lane causing the sort of problem we have here (made worse because you have to navigate side by side around a roundabout). 100m further on opens to a dual carriage way. Either leave it as one lane until the dual or make it 2 from the roundabout
Whoever comes up with these ideas can't have a driving licence.
Jonsv8 said:
The A5 = from left to right...
Single carriage way - opens up to two lanes at the round about. Merges immediately on the exit back to a single lane causing the sort of problem we have here (made worse because you have to navigate side by side around a roundabout). 100m further on opens to a dual carriage way. Either leave it as one lane until the dual or make it 2 from the roundabout
Whoever comes up with these ideas can't have a driving licence.
There are probably valid reasons for it. Single carriage way - opens up to two lanes at the round about. Merges immediately on the exit back to a single lane causing the sort of problem we have here (made worse because you have to navigate side by side around a roundabout). 100m further on opens to a dual carriage way. Either leave it as one lane until the dual or make it 2 from the roundabout
Whoever comes up with these ideas can't have a driving licence.
http://www.standardsforhighways.co.uk/dmrb/vol6/se...
(^^ The geometric design guides for roundabouts in the UK)
OpulentBob said:
There are probably valid reasons for it.
http://www.standardsforhighways.co.uk/dmrb/vol6/se...
(^^ The geometric design guides for roundabouts in the UK)
I'd heard there were rules and I heard that certain roads (maybe trunk roads), even if single carriage way, have to split at a roundabout like this. The token gesture of 2 lanes on the exit is feeble and in my view causes more problems than its worth. http://www.standardsforhighways.co.uk/dmrb/vol6/se...
(^^ The geometric design guides for roundabouts in the UK)
Interestingly the road from the top to the bottom has 2 in and 1 lane out.
I'll second all the voices that call for the highway code to properly cover zip merging. I'm convinced part of the hostility is because so many cars pull into the continuing lane at the first sign of a eventual lane closure with the result that the outer lane is near empty, and progress in lane one is slow.
If all zip merged properly, only the 'force their way past' brigade would be slowed, everyone else would get to their destination faster.
If all zip merged properly, only the 'force their way past' brigade would be slowed, everyone else would get to their destination faster.
C
It should work OK, but there's often some ahole determined to block you out as they think you're cheating - but if you've joined at an earlier entrance you can't avoid being the RH lane.
Recently it was a guy in a 911 who undertook as I started to move across and then stopped to give me a mouthful. :shrug:This is my situation, entering the roundabout from the right, only the outside lane is for turning right, the inside is marked turn left or straight on, as you exit the roundabout at the top, as you pass the lights it merges into one.
In this street view you see the white van which has joined from the right, is turning towards the lights and the single carriageway which starts immediately past the lights. During rush hour both lanes are chokka, and hardly anyone gives way.
The other thing here as you are crossing the roundabout, if the lights turn red, I stop on the roundabout to let bus's, trucks etc entering from the left, knowing full well they will exit the roundabout toward the bottom of the first pic, more often than not cars behind me beep, or those who are in front stop on the roundabout blocking others getting across, muppets.
P.S. This is proof the sun does shine in Aberdeen.
Sheepshanks said:
Vipers said:
Have the same situation up here, as you exit the roundabout in the outside lane (inside lane is for the turn off before), we merge into one lane, I always indicate, stop, and wait until someone lets me in.
If I have entered from the other road, and am now in the inside lane, I will always try to let someone merge in front of me but it aggravates me when some folk just barge in, no indicators, just get out of my way attitude.
I go through a similar light controlled roundabout and merge. The snag is you don't want to stop at the merge as the traffic is moving at 10-20MPH and there are reasonable gaps. If I have entered from the other road, and am now in the inside lane, I will always try to let someone merge in front of me but it aggravates me when some folk just barge in, no indicators, just get out of my way attitude.
It should work OK, but there's often some a
hole determined to block you out as they think you're cheating - but if you've joined at an earlier entrance you can't avoid being the RH lane. Recently it was a guy in a 911 who undertook as I started to move across and then stopped to give me a mouthful. :shrug:
In this street view you see the white van which has joined from the right, is turning towards the lights and the single carriageway which starts immediately past the lights. During rush hour both lanes are chokka, and hardly anyone gives way.
The other thing here as you are crossing the roundabout, if the lights turn red, I stop on the roundabout to let bus's, trucks etc entering from the left, knowing full well they will exit the roundabout toward the bottom of the first pic, more often than not cars behind me beep, or those who are in front stop on the roundabout blocking others getting across, muppets.
P.S. This is proof the sun does shine in Aberdeen.
Edited by Vipers on Thursday 2nd April 15:38
General Fluff said:
And there is a perfect example of the problem. People scared to use a very simple road layout and of the perception they have the right of way, regardless of whatever else may be going on.
Driving along minding his own business isn't an excuse. He should have been aware it was a merge point and have an awareness of the other cars around him. Jeez, how do you people survive?
And in a perfect world that's exactly what would happen. In the real world it doesn't. In the perfect world people drive perfectly at all times, in the real world they don't.Driving along minding his own business isn't an excuse. He should have been aware it was a merge point and have an awareness of the other cars around him. Jeez, how do you people survive?
How do I survive? By not placing myself into positions where I become vulnerable to someone elses poor driving, when there is practically nothing to be gained by doing so. I'm not able to drive perfectly myself at all times, I've never met anyone who can, therefore I can understand the Defender driver not driving perfectly.
Edited by heebeegeetee on Thursday 2nd April 15:50
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