Driver charged with attempted murder.

[KungFuPanda]

Crash on the M60 yesterday. Not sure what happened but seems like only one vehicle involved driven by the woman who was charged.

Seems like a serious charge for an RTA.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greate...

[Mk3Spitfire]

I would guess that she crashed on purpose, intending to kill those on board?

[The PMP]

as above...

[soprano]

She has been arrested on suspicion rather than charged. A very different thing.

[agtlaw]

Has she been charged?

Attempted murder is a difficult offence to prove. D must intend to kill. It's easier to prove murder - kill or cause serious injury.

I've had a few attempted murder cases - often involving driving cars at police officers / police cars. The police tend to get quite excited by that kind of thing. It always ends up as dangerous driving.

[Jim1556]

I think anyone who runs from the police (in a car) should automatically be charged with attempted murder! 100+ through 30s & 40s with pedestrians around... But that's just me, I also think 150 on an empty motorway is ok...

Anyway, I'll be interested in seeing the details of what led them to arrest her...

[davepoth]

agtlaw said:

Has she been charged?

Attempted murder is a difficult offence to prove. D must intend to kill. It's easier to prove murder - kill or cause serious injury.

I've had a few attempted murder cases - often involving driving cars at police officers / police cars. The police tend to get quite excited by that kind of thing. It always ends up as dangerous driving.

I wonder if she said something along the lines of "I'm going to crash this car and kill you" and then proceeded to crash the car? If both of the passengers heard that and reported it to the police in their statements, would that be enough?

[Mk3Spitfire]

davepoth said:

I wonder if she said something along the lines of "I'm going to crash this car and kill you" and then proceeded to crash the car? If both of the passengers heard that and reported it to the police in their statements, would that be enough?

It may well be enough to get her arrested for attempt murder, but getting her charged with it would be a very different matter, down to the CPS, based on all the info available.

[dudleybloke]

The woman charged could have been a passenger who grabbed the steering wheel or attacked the driver causing the crash.

[Mopar440]

Jim1556 said:

I think anyone who runs from the police (in a car) should automatically be charged with attempted murder! 100+ through 30s & 40s with pedestrians around...

I didn't read any of that in the OP's link?

[Mk3Spitfire]

dudleybloke said:

The woman charged could have been a passenger who grabbed the steering wheel or attacked the driver causing the crash.

Maybe. But it does say she was the driver, and the other two occupants were male.
And she was arrested, not charged.

[Jim1556]

Mopar440 said:

I didn't read any of that in the OP's link?

It doesn't apply to the OP's link, the point was, how many times have you seen Police, Camera, Action or YouTube clips where the offender could easily have wiped out a family? Like I said, automatic attempted murder charge! You don't run from the police without completely knowing the potential consequences!

[Mopar440]

Jim1556 said:

You don't run from the police without completely knowing the potential consequences!

Are you replying to a completely different thread? Who is "running from the police" anywhere in this thread (other that your posts)?

[Mr2Mike]

Jim1556 said:

I think anyone who runs from the police (in a car) should automatically be charged with attempted murder! 100+ through 30s & 40s with pedestrians around... But that's just me, I also think 150 on an empty motorway is ok...

When someone attempts to evade capture by driving dangerously, have they already planned to kill someone in the process?

[Derek Smith]

agtlaw said:

Has she been charged?

Attempted murder is a difficult offence to prove. D must intend to kill. It's easier to prove murder - kill or cause serious injury.

I've had a few attempted murder cases - often involving driving cars at police officers / police cars. The police tend to get quite excited by that kind of thing. It always ends up as dangerous driving.

I was driven at by a woman in a Mini. I stepped out of the road and onto the footway and she mounted the kerb, leaving me no way to go. I had to jump up and grab onto the top of a 10' wall and scramble over, my feet being lower than the level of the roof of the Mini as it went past. Only the fact that the nearside wheels were in the gutter stopped me being hit and pulled down onto the car.

I got quite excited about that, you know.

Her brief was patronising as well, suggesting that it was just a minor incident. Perhaps one could forgive him as it was not something that was likely to happen in an office, with carpets and stuff.

I'm sure that police officers still get excited when offenders try to stab them but, oddly enough, it is more likely that an officer would be killed by a car driven at him at speed than after being attacked with a knife.

[soprano]

Derek Smith said:

agtlaw said:

Has she been charged?

Attempted murder is a difficult offence to prove. D must intend to kill. It's easier to prove murder - kill or cause serious injury.

I've had a few attempted murder cases - often involving driving cars at police officers / police cars. The police tend to get quite excited by that kind of thing. It always ends up as dangerous driving.

I was driven at by a woman in a Mini. I stepped out of the road and onto the footway and she mounted the kerb, leaving me no way to go. I had to jump up and grab onto the top of a 10' wall and scramble over, my feet being lower than the level of the roof of the Mini as it went past. Only the fact that the nearside wheels were in the gutter stopped me being hit and pulled down onto the car.

I got quite excited about that, you know.

Her brief was patronising as well, suggesting that it was just a minor incident. Perhaps one could forgive him as it was not something that was likely to happen in an office, with carpets and stuff.

I'm sure that police officers still get excited when offenders try to stab them but, oddly enough, it is more likely that an officer would be killed by a car driven at him at speed than after being attacked with a knife.

I think by 'getting excited' AGT means that when a suspect is arrested, police officers often think (in these situations) that the facts amount to attempted murder when in reality, as he says, it is extremely difficult to prove attempted murder and thus the common charge is dangerous driving.

Often people find it difficult to distinguish between what a suspect is arrested for from what that suspect is subsequently charged with, as evidenced by other posters above. Commonly very different things, when the case is reviewed by the CPS.

[Mk3Spitfire]

I'm fairly sure Derek knows the difference between arrest offence and charge offence.

[soprano]

Mk3Spitfire said:

I'm fairly sure Derek knows the difference between arrest offence and charge offence.

Yes. Hence I said 'other posters'

[grumpy52]

Maybe we should bring in the charge like the yanks , assault with a deadly weapon , which applies to motor vehicles . Seems to carry a minimum tariff of 15 years in most states and a lot more in others .