Insurance Renewal - Legal Cover Question

[rivercatch]

I've just renewed my bike insurance with BMW Motorrad. No problems but I just wanted to check the result of this. Since lurking on SPL I'm taking much more care over reading these things.

Firstly I have a policy covering the bike and me riding it, which is underwritten by Equity Red Star. Under section 2 Liability to Third Parties it states:

Policy said:

Legal costs
Your insurer will pay for:
- solicitors fees if anyone they insure under this section is represented at a coroner’s inquest or fatal accident inquiry or is defending any proceedings in a court of summary jurisdiction;
- legal services up to an amount not exceeding £1,000 to defend anyone they insure under this section in the event of proceedings being instigated for manslaughter or reckless or dangerous driving causing death, provided that at the time of the occurrences the person they insure is 21 years of age or more.
Your insurer will only pay these legal costs if they relate to an incident which is covered under this section.

Then I have a separate Legal Expenses policy, which is documented in the same booklet, but is underwritten by Ageas Insurance Ltd. It describes it self as:

Policy said:

Set out below are the full details of the “before-the-event” legal expenses insurance policy to assist and protect you in the event that you need to make a claim.

And goes on to describe the cover as:

Policy said:

This policy Will Cover
Subject to the terms, conditions, exclusions and limitations in this policy, and to the payment of the excess, we will indemnify an insured person for adverse
costs and fees and expenses to a maximum of £100,000 in respect of any one claim, where:
• the adverse costs and fees and expenses are payable as a result of the pursuit of a claim directly arising from one or more insured incidents,
occurring within the territorial limits and during the cover period; and
• We have given our prior approval to the pursuit of the claim before any legal proceedings have commenced; and
• the premium has been paid.
Approval will be given if there are reasonable prospects that the claim will be successful and that it can be pursued in a proportionate manner. If this is not the
case, we will decline cover.

And 'claim' is defined as:

Policy said:

The pursuit, against an opponent, of:
– uninsured losses arising out of damage to the vehicle, but only if the vehicle belonged to you; or
– uninsured losses arising out of loss or damage to any personal belongings in or on the vehicle, but only if they belonged to you; or
– damages for death or bodily injury sustained by an insured person whilst travelling in or on, or getting into or out of or on or off the vehicle; or
– any other uninsured losses sustained by you
to which we have given our approval to proceed with the claim and providing always that such uninsured losses or damages arise solely out of the
insured incident.

Sorry if this is long winded but I'm trying to check where I am.

Under the motor policy I am covered for "defending any proceedings in a court of summary jurisdiction". What is a court of summary jurisdiction - say compared to a magistrates court, Crown court or High court etc.

Also I'm covered up to £1000 for manslaughter, or reckless or dangerous driving. A £1000 limit doesn't seem very much in this day & age. What would be the real cost of defending a dangerous driving charge all the way to a trial - £10k? £15k. Is a careless driving charge any cheaper?

The Legal Expenses I can see only relates to recovery of uninsured losses from an incident where the other motor policy applies. Sorry this may be obvious to everyone else but I had kind of assumed that it was more general.

I guess I'm thinking that with the elimination (in practical terms for me) legal aid, courts loading more costs and charges and more arbitary charging going on (OK only from reading SPL & anecdotal but it seem more 'we'll charge now and negotiate later' approach), legal fees related to motoring offences is more important.

Can you get more general cover for legal fees? If so where do you go?

[littleredrooster]

I looked at this Legal Cover insurance a few years back (ironically with BMW Motorrad through Equity Red Star / Aegeas) and concluded that I was effectively paying for little or nothing extra. I have declined it ever since; my house insurance and AA membership give me advice and cover for most things I may need (as far as I can see!).

[LoonR1]

It's simple.

1. Your policy covers you for legal proceedings relating to liability resolution in any motor accident. In other words if it has to go to court to get sorted then it's covered.

2. Your legal expenses policy covers you for recovery of your uninsured losses in the event of a non fault or split fault claim. These are likely to
Be injury, your excess, helmets leathers etc.

You only need one LE a year so don't buy it on every motor policy.

[hondafanatic]

LoonR1 said:

You only need one LE a year so don't buy it on every motor policy.

Did not know that. Thanks.

[rivercatch]

LoonR1 said:

You only need one LE a year so don't buy it on every motor policy.

Interesting you say that!

The definition of Claim above refers to "Insured incident" for which the definition is:

"Shall mean an incident which ... [stuff omitted] ... being the fault of the third party allows the insured person to be able successfully to make a claim. The event must be covered by the motor insurance policy issued in respect of your vehicle."

And "motor insurance policy" is defined as:
"The policy of motor insurance for your vehicle which has been issued in accordance with the requirements of the Road Traffic Act 1988, to which this policy is attached.

And vehicle is defined as:
"The vehicle specified in the motor insurance policy issued with this policy, which was being driven or ridden by a person entitled to drive or ride under the motor insurance policy, together with any caravan or trailer attached to such vehicle at the time of the insured incident."

Which I read as this legal expenses policy only applies to the vehicle under the policy it was sold with.

However my wife's Co-op car policy has legal expenses part which is more general and their website has an explicit warning against buying two legal expense policies.

Looks like BMW policy being cheap then!

Thanks for the other answers.

[LoonR1]

There would be no issue with you claiming under the policy for a separate motor vehicle. In fact the legal firm would snatch your hand off for the business.