repeatedly pulled for no insurance on national database...
Discussion
LoonR1 said:
You do know that evening f the MId was real time, that the police systems aren't don't you. Nothing to do with MId, the police don't have real time capability in there vehicles, so it's a weekly upload from a disc. Time for a rant about the police amd that we should be paying more tax to improve their real time capability?
The police to have these wonderful things called radio's though. So they can check if the online system says the same. I do think it's the police who should be more careful here though. Rather than blaming the insurance companies. However I don't really care about it enough to give it anymore thought.
LoonR1 said:
You do know that evening f the MId was real time, that the police systems aren't don't you. Nothing to do with MId, the police don't have real time capability in there vehicles, so it's a weekly upload from a disc. Time for a rant about the police amd that we should be paying more tax to improve their real time capability?
As all their phones haves internet capabilities so should their car software. Tetra could handle this easily with a real-time request to ask mid. YesvI have provided Business Intelligence to the insurance industry and yes their systems are ancient but they would still be able to integrate this type of systemphotosnob said:
LoonR1 said:
You do know that evening f the MId was real time, that the police systems aren't don't you. Nothing to do with MId, the police don't have real time capability in there vehicles, so it's a weekly upload from a disc. Time for a rant about the police amd that we should be paying more tax to improve their real time capability?
The police to have these wonderful things called radio's though. So they can check if the online system says the same. I do think it's the police who should be more careful here though. Rather than blaming the insurance companies. However I don't really care about it enough to give it anymore thought.
R8VXF said:
As all their phones haves internet capabilities so should their car software. Tetra could handle this easily with a real-time request to ask mid. YesvI have provided Business Intelligence to the insurance industry and yes their systems are ancient but they would still be able to integrate this type of system
Amd all this comes at a cost.Can we take a step back though. Police, especially TrafPol, are good at spotting those who are genuinely driving without insurance vs those who are a victim of a system failure. As frustrating as this is for the OP he hasn't had his car confiscated. The MID is a trigger for the police to act, if they want to. Once they act then their discretion kicks in as to whether to push things further.
LoonR1 said:
Amd all this comes at a cost.
Can we take a step back though. Police, especially TrafPol, are good at spotting those who are genuinely driving without insurance vs those who are a victim of a system failure. As frustrating as this is for the OP he hasn't had his car confiscated. The MID is a trigger for the police to act, if they want to. Once they act then their discretion kicks in as to whether to push things further.
No need for any fancy pants integrated systems - just ring the helplineCan we take a step back though. Police, especially TrafPol, are good at spotting those who are genuinely driving without insurance vs those who are a victim of a system failure. As frustrating as this is for the OP he hasn't had his car confiscated. The MID is a trigger for the police to act, if they want to. Once they act then their discretion kicks in as to whether to push things further.
Bigends said:
Insurance and licence checks are carried ( in my force ) via PNC. Whether the check is done from a mobile terminal or static in a Police station the result will be the same. If no insurance is shown then I think they can still make further checks via the motor insureres helpline
If they can just ring a help line... Why are we even talking about this? Call helpline and then ask for an intelligence note to be added saying they called so to leave it for a week. I no nothing about insurance. But i do know the police can add some intelligence to a car - so it seems simple to fix. I am probably missing something though.
LoonR1 said:
Amd all this comes at a cost.
Can we take a step back though. Police, especially TrafPol, are good at spotting those who are genuinely driving without insurance vs those who are a victim of a system failure. As frustrating as this is for the OP he hasn't had his car confiscated. The MID is a trigger for the police to act, if they want to. Once they act then their discretion kicks in as to whether to push things further.
You still don't get it, do you?Can we take a step back though. Police, especially TrafPol, are good at spotting those who are genuinely driving without insurance vs those who are a victim of a system failure. As frustrating as this is for the OP he hasn't had his car confiscated. The MID is a trigger for the police to act, if they want to. Once they act then their discretion kicks in as to whether to push things further.
Whether or not my car is seized, if I have to be somewhere (a customer or a hospital appointment for my partner or wherever) then I have to be there - not sat by the side of the road waiting while someone confirms that the not-fit-for-purpose system is in error. And, yes, a system that's used for real-time policing which doesn't update in real time is not fit for purpose.
It doesn't matter whether the Police only update weekly, or whenever - that just exacerbates the problem and makes the week of "danger" potentially longer.
LoonR1 said:
It can take a few days to update. It always has done and always will, barring some miraculous IT intervention.
There doesn't need to be some miraculous IT intervention, and there is already a system in place that is instantaneous.Type MIDUPDATE in to google and see what comes up.
You get access to the database, and with my last policy, I could log on, type in the reg, hit enter, and it was on the database, instantly.
I changed insurers at my last renewal, and, in my opinion, this new insurer is simply pretty poor at entering the information.
They say it should be updated within 24 hours, but it usually takes 7 days, including two or three email reminders to get my car(s) added to the database.
The system is there, but it is let down by people not bothering to update in a timely fashion.
LoonR1 said:
You do know that evening f the MId was real time, that the police systems aren't don't you. Nothing to do with MId, the police don't have real time capability in there vehicles, so it's a weekly upload from a disc. Time for a rant about the police amd that we should be paying more tax to improve their real time capability?
Some in vehicle databases are reliant on batch updates and may take a period of time to update however an ANPR alert that a vehicle has no insurance held is simply an indicator that further investigation is needed. This is initially done by way of a PNC check which obtains information directly from the MID in real time. If the vehicle is insured on PNC then no further enquiry is necessary. There is a huge variation in the time taken to update the MID by different companies. For some it is done in hours, others can take days. If some are able to do so in a timely manner there is no technical reason why they all can't.
The biggest issue with using the MIB helpline is that all they do is call the insurer to confirm the insurance status. Unfortunately a significant number of insurers can not be contacted outwith office hours. This means that uninsured drivers are often given the benefit of the doubt and allowed to continue to drive for a period of time or more rarely insured drivers have their vehicle seized. In an ideal world if insurers are unable to update the MID in a timely fashion they should provide a method to allow policy details to be checked 24/7.
Cat
It still boils down to the driver has registered and taxed their vehicle, it's insured and if required tested. They have the bits of paper, even though in some cases, eg VOSA test receipt, the bit of paper is officially meaningless.
THEY'VE DONE WHAT THEY ARE REQUIRED TO DO. FAIL TO SLIP UP ON ANY ONE SMALL PART OF THAT AND PUNISHMENT FOLLOWS.
The seeming inability for various private and official operators to keep their various computer systems up to date, accurate and all get their collective act together is not the responsibility of the driver / keeper.
If these requirements were new then some bedding in and leeway is forgive able. How long is it now that this set up has been on the go? About time got sorted and people started being a bit more professional plus showing a decent attitude.
The measure of an organisation is not that they make mistakes but what they do about it. It seems that generally in this area the collective bodies don't measure up too well.
THEY'VE DONE WHAT THEY ARE REQUIRED TO DO. FAIL TO SLIP UP ON ANY ONE SMALL PART OF THAT AND PUNISHMENT FOLLOWS.
The seeming inability for various private and official operators to keep their various computer systems up to date, accurate and all get their collective act together is not the responsibility of the driver / keeper.
If these requirements were new then some bedding in and leeway is forgive able. How long is it now that this set up has been on the go? About time got sorted and people started being a bit more professional plus showing a decent attitude.
The measure of an organisation is not that they make mistakes but what they do about it. It seems that generally in this area the collective bodies don't measure up too well.
In a nutshell, everyone on here with a modicum of It skill could have done this better
The whole system is completely broken and everyone is being pulled all the time, apart from those who aren't actually insured and are getting away with it
Uninsured driving is worse than it ever was.
Just one nite. If a vehicle is insured, even if not for that driver, isn't that better for all of us, as there's a fall back to one insurer rather than us all paying more and more to the MIB? You also assume that insurers are poor at spotting fronting, which they're not.
Finally, since the introduction of CIE, the levy insurers pay to theMiB has fallen and they've even received a rebate. You may have seen a small drop in your premium as a result.
It's important to forget these facts though and rely on supposition.
And on that note goodbye and enjoy the thread.
The whole system is completely broken and everyone is being pulled all the time, apart from those who aren't actually insured and are getting away with it
Uninsured driving is worse than it ever was.
Just one nite. If a vehicle is insured, even if not for that driver, isn't that better for all of us, as there's a fall back to one insurer rather than us all paying more and more to the MIB? You also assume that insurers are poor at spotting fronting, which they're not.
Finally, since the introduction of CIE, the levy insurers pay to theMiB has fallen and they've even received a rebate. You may have seen a small drop in your premium as a result.
It's important to forget these facts though and rely on supposition.
And on that note goodbye and enjoy the thread.
Cat said:
In yet another, other nutshell, I'm right and everyone else is wrong because I know everything about insurance and no one else knows anything, so there. 
Cat
Its funny because its true Cat
It really is down to the insurance companies to get MID updated not the old bill to spunk nonexistent money on fancy pants systems.
Basic enqs at the side of the road will very quickly bottom out if a policy is in place or not.
Edited by Greendubber on Wednesday 15th April 08:43
LoonR1 said:
In a nutshell, everyone on here with a modicum of It skill could have done this better
The whole system is completely broken and everyone is being pulled all the time, apart from those who aren't actually insured and are getting away with it
Uninsured driving is worse than it ever was.
Just one nite. If a vehicle is insured, even if not for that driver, isn't that better for all of us, as there's a fall back to one insurer rather than us all paying more and more to the MIB? You also assume that insurers are poor at spotting fronting, which they're not.
Finally, since the introduction of CIE, the levy insurers pay to theMiB has fallen and they've even received a rebate. You may have seen a small drop in your premium as a result.
It's important to forget these facts though and rely on supposition.
And on that note goodbye and enjoy the thread.
No one needs to pay more, the technology has been around for years, it's just not being (well) implemented yet.The whole system is completely broken and everyone is being pulled all the time, apart from those who aren't actually insured and are getting away with it
Uninsured driving is worse than it ever was.
Just one nite. If a vehicle is insured, even if not for that driver, isn't that better for all of us, as there's a fall back to one insurer rather than us all paying more and more to the MIB? You also assume that insurers are poor at spotting fronting, which they're not.
Finally, since the introduction of CIE, the levy insurers pay to theMiB has fallen and they've even received a rebate. You may have seen a small drop in your premium as a result.
It's important to forget these facts though and rely on supposition.
And on that note goodbye and enjoy the thread.
WinstonWolf said:
No one needs to pay more, the technology has been around for years, it's just not being (well) implemented yet.
It's definitely the insurance industry's fault - they have a lot to answer for in many areas of the way they do business.One (a well known household name) managed to issue a new policy to my daughter that was dated for the previous year. She drove uninsured for several days and while I'm reasonably hopeful they'd have met their insurance obligations (although that's easy for them to say when nothing had happened) had she been caught, prosecuted and convicted she could have lost her job.
The thing that annoys me about the system is that the database is not as reliable as it needs to be and the insurers have no legal obligation to be contactable outside office hours.
So you don't carry your certificate, your car is getting seized. Often if the cops are judgemental, then even if you have a certificate, your car is being seized.
Total catch 22.
I wonder where the law has changed to allow them to ignore the presence of an insurance certificate, yet in the same step they can choose to give you a "producer" where you are required to produce said certificate.
It seems that insurance documents have no value when it suits them and can be used to inconvenience you with a producer when it suits them...
Either a certificate is a valid document with some standing or its not. just like the Mot is no longer a certificate but a reciept as the database takes precedence.
So you don't carry your certificate, your car is getting seized. Often if the cops are judgemental, then even if you have a certificate, your car is being seized.
Total catch 22.
I wonder where the law has changed to allow them to ignore the presence of an insurance certificate, yet in the same step they can choose to give you a "producer" where you are required to produce said certificate.
It seems that insurance documents have no value when it suits them and can be used to inconvenience you with a producer when it suits them...
Either a certificate is a valid document with some standing or its not. just like the Mot is no longer a certificate but a reciept as the database takes precedence.
LoonR1 said:
You do know that evening f the MId was real time, that the police systems aren't don't you. Nothing to do with MId, the police don't have real time capability in there vehicles, so it's a weekly upload from a disc. Time for a rant about the police amd that we should be paying more tax to improve their real time capability?
Jesus wept. Are you telling me every copper hasn't got a smartphone and access to the internet. It's all on askmid you know! 
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