repeatedly pulled for no insurance on national database...

[stuart313]

I thought the law says you have to have insurance, not to have insurance and make sure this shows up on some on-line database somewhere.

If you are properly insured then what concern of yours is it whether it shows up on the MIB or not.

[hedgefinder]

stuart313 said:

I thought the law says you have to have insurance, not to have insurance and make sure this shows up on some on-line database somewhere.

If you are properly insured then what concern of yours is it whether it shows up on the MIB or not.

probably just the concern of being able to drive my vehicle without being pulled over and the vehicle impounded....

[Slidingpillar]

I dare say somebody will point out just why it's impossible, but wouldn't it be nice if the police could simply append a note:
Stopped 13/4/2015, policy examined, looks ok

Would be useful for all sorts of policey sort of things.

[anonymous-user]

You could forge the note.

[handpaper]

stuart313 said:

I thought the law says you have to have insurance, not to have insurance and make sure this shows up on some on-line database somewhere.

If you are properly insured then what concern of yours is it whether it shows up on the MIB or not.

Not quite. The law requires a means of covering a minimum level of third party risk, insurance is simply the most effective way to do this for most people. If you can demonstrate liquid assets above this minimum amount, you don't need motor insurance.

[LoonR1]

handpaper said:

Not quite. The law requires a means of covering a minimum level of third party risk, insurance is simply the most effective way to do this for most people. If you can demonstrate liquid assets above this minimum amount, you don't need motor insurance.

You've just won the hard fought pedantry award for PH. All you now need to do is let everyone know how much this amount is and the risks they're opening themselves up to.

[thescamper]

handpaper said:

Not quite. The law requires a means of covering a minimum level of third party risk, insurance is simply the most effective way to do this for most people. If you can demonstrate liquid assets above this minimum amount, you don't need motor insurance.

So how do you satisfy the copper of that at the roadside?

[Spangles]

thescamper said:

handpaper said:

Not quite. The law requires a means of covering a minimum level of third party risk, insurance is simply the most effective way to do this for most people. If you can demonstrate liquid assets above this minimum amount, you don't need motor insurance.

So how do you satisfy the copper of that at the roadside?

With a big pile of cash.

[LoonR1]

thescamper said:

So how do you satisfy the copper of that at the roadside?

Its logged on MiD as insured as you've lodged a bond with HM Treasury. Can't remember how much it is though.

[R8VXF]

SonicShadow said:

I'll take an example from my line of work. I work in music distribution - obviously a very different industry, but it is very database driven - the nuts and bolts are quite similar really - distributing data from multiple sources to a database.

One of our record labels can send us a release, we can ingest it into our system and deliver it to all DSP's worldwide and the larger ones like iTunes and Spotify will have the content on store and ready to purchase within hours, and most of that time is simply waiting for content to transfer.

If we can do that with more data per day than MID will process a year, I'm sure such a system could be implemented.

You and me both! I am a DBA for a digital music retailer and we can ingest something and have it online within an hour or so. Our main DB is a couple of Terabytes and we have about 40 Petabytes of music stored!

@Loon:
The MID could very easily be updated instantaneously actually. All that the MIB would need to provide would be an API that the insurers call when creating/changing a policy. No need for batching requests or "pulling data" from multiple sources, it should be a push based system.

[randlemarcus]

R8VXF said:

ou and me both! I am a DBA for a digital music retailer and we can ingest something and have it online within an hour or so. Our main DB is a couple of Terabytes and we have about 40 Petabytes of music stored!

@Loon:
The MID could very easily be updated instantaneously actually. All that the MIB would need to provide would be an API that the insurers call when creating/changing a policy. No need for batching requests or "pulling data" from multiple sources, it should be a push based system.

You are assuming that the insurers want to pay for their systems to play nicely though. They are probably very happy running their mainframe systems built in 1973 and doing overnight batch runs to do stuff

[LoonR1]

randlemarcus said:

You are assuming that the insurers want to pay for their systems to play nicely though. They are probably very happy running their mainframe systems built in 1973 and doing overnight batch runs to do stuff

When you consider the cost of replacement you'd understand why, it's £100s millions that has to be found and if the only benefit is something like MID then it's a non starter.

[over_the_hill]

Slidingpillar said:

I dare say somebody will point out just why it's impossible, but wouldn't it be nice if the police could simply append a note:
Stopped 13/4/2015, policy examined, looks ok

Would be useful for all sorts of policey sort of things.

How very dare you coming here with you common sense ideas. You should bog off immediately, restock the cupboard with Red Bull and stuff the freezer full of sausages.

[hornetrider]

LoonR1 said:

Feel free to explain how you'd draw the data from a plethora of insurer and broker systems that often only fully update themselves overnight and are rarely online and then put this into a format that the receiving database can accept and update instantly. Ideally doing this at zero cost would be good too, as the cost of the database has to be passed on to customers.

It's a piece of piss mate to be honest.

In laymans terms Insurer A sends via ftp a flat file with comma separated values to <MIB> which has a very simple shell script to parse that file into the database.

The file format could even be as simple as:

insurera,fullycomp,x123abc,bmw,5series,jbloggs,123acaciaavanue,wc11aa

This doesn't even have to wait until the end of the day, it could happen every hour, or even 15 minutes.

[Variomatic]

LoonR1 said:

The problem that I have here is that you would have received a letter from the MOtor a insurers Bureau who "police" these databases telling you that your vehicle is uninsured and to address that situation or face a fine of £100, vehicle seized etc.

I can't see that you've fallen through the cracks on both processes, which do separate checks.

http://www.mib.org.uk/Motor+Insurance+Database/en/...

Quite easy.

One scenario: Car was SORN before the OP bought it because the previous owner had cancelled the insurance. They received the "you're not insured, you're going to hell" warning letter and, rightly, ignored it.

Since MIB don't get notified of vehicle transfers, they have no reason to send out another letter to the new owner, at least until they do another 1980s style batch update of their system and see that the SORN has been lifted. Maybe not even then (I don't know what triggers they use for the letters) because they may only send letters on lapse of a policy rather than lifting of SORN. I do know that I get a letter every time I SORN one of our DAFs, so they do seem to act on the lapse of policy rather than cross referencing it to SORN status.

As for the matter of updates:

This is effectively now part of the legal system, which the industry lobbied hard to have introduced for tgeir own commercial reasons. When it goes wrong it can have serious effects on innocent parties. They therefore have at least a moral obligation to ensure that the systems work and work efficiently, and to make whatever investment is needed - out of their profits - to ensure that's the case.

In any other area but financial services, if you're in business and you'd like something (such as a database) but can't afford it then you can't have it. Why is this any different simply because everyone else is legally obliged to play along and take the flak?

[LoonR1]

If it was that easy do you think insurers wouldn't have done it?

As there are clearly some genius IT guys on here then why don't you contact the MIB and offer to sort it all out for them, along with each insurer. If it's as simple as you all suggest, then you could save the insurers a fortune (and all of us via premium hikes) as well as make a packet yourself by either taking a cut of the savings or charging a fixed fee.

I'm being serious.

[hornetrider]

It really, really is. I've done similar implementations in the mobile and banking industry. The banking industry is a bit more difficult as you're working with more secure, slower systems so the updating is less frequent, which I suspect is similar to insurers.

[LoonR1]

hornetrider said:

It really, really is. I've done similar implementations in the mobile and banking industry. The banking industry is a bit more difficult as you're working with more secure, slower systems so the updating is less frequent, which I suspect is similar to insurers.

So ring the MIB and then each insurer in turn and explain your solution, the cost savings they'd make and make yourself rich. No point talking on here when there's a few million quid to be made from something this simple.

[hornetrider]

I don't run a large software company capable of sourcing, purchasing, designing and commisioning the kit, but thanks anyway. If the individuals making decisions in the industry had anything about them they would be putting an RFP out for tender to companies who can.

However if they're all like you with your bizarre approach to arguing on the internet then maybe not.

[randlemarcus]

LoonR1 said:

hornetrider said:

It really, really is. I've done similar implementations in the mobile and banking industry. The banking industry is a bit more difficult as you're working with more secure, slower systems so the updating is less frequent, which I suspect is similar to insurers.

So ring the MIB and then each insurer in turn and explain your solution, the cost savings they'd make and make yourself rich. No point talking on here when there's a few million quid to be made from something this simple.

Utterly with Loon on this one. Having done consultancy with Insurers, I can confirm that they are always happy to hear way of reducing overhead costs, and doing things better. You had better be damn sure of your business case and the length of the ROI period, mind you