repeatedly pulled for no insurance on national database...
Discussion
LoonR1 said:
handpaper said:
Not quite. The law requires a means of covering a minimum level of third party risk, insurance is simply the most effective way to do this for most people. If you can demonstrate liquid assets above this minimum amount, you don't need motor insurance.
You've just won the hard fought pedantry award for PH. All you now need to do is let everyone know how much this amount is and the risks they're opening themselves up to. From what I remember of policy documents inadequately perused, the figure of £10 million rings a bell. But then, if you have this much cash floating around, you'd be better off setting up your own insurance company and writing yourself cover, thereby avoiding the hassle of having to visit a cashpoint for a statement every time you get pulled over.
As for additional risks, perhaps something on the lines of personal liability versus limited liability? Given that it's perfectly possible for me to be liable for damage in excess of £10M, how do insurance companies handle this?
LoonR1 said:
Its logged on MiD as insured as you've lodged a bond with HM Treasury. Can't remember how much it is though.
Just because I know how much you like pedantry 
the security must be lodged with the Accountant General of the Senior Courts, not HM Treasury. The amount of the security currently required is £500,000. Cat
Edited by Cat on Tuesday 14th April 11:45
Indeed. Section 144(1)) RTA 1988 - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/sectio...
When I checked my piggy bank I discovered to my dismay that its contents were insufficient.
When I checked my piggy bank I discovered to my dismay that its contents were insufficient.
LoonR1 said:
randlemarcus said:
You are assuming that the insurers want to pay for their systems to play nicely though. They are probably very happy running their mainframe systems built in 1973 and doing overnight batch runs to do stuff
When you consider the cost of replacement you'd understand why, it's £100s millions that has to be found and if the only benefit is something like MID then it's a non starter. randlemarcus said:
OOh, PS Loon, thanks for the 2 seater reply. I had hoped that having 3 squishy teenager seats might have a logical reduction in risk, but your point is,as ever, well made and true. Damn your eyes
you've got a point to some extent as it will reduce the amount of passenger claims, but as 2 seaters tend to be sportier cars it will increase the severity and potentially frequency risk of them damaging others by colliding with them. LoonR1 said:
SonicShadow said:
I'll take an example from my line of work. I work in music distribution - obviously a very different industry, but it is very database driven - the nuts and bolts are quite similar really - distributing data from multiple sources to a database.
One of our record labels can send us a release, we can ingest it into our system and deliver it to all DSP's worldwide and the larger ones like iTunes and Spotify will have the content on store and ready to purchase within hours, and most of that time is simply waiting for content to transfer.
If we can do that with more data per day than MID will process a year, I'm sure such a system could be implemented.
You're dealing in a set of systems that a re pretty new though. Some of the IT for insurers dates back to the 1980s. Like I said though I don't understand it. I jsut reckon that if it could've been done cheaper and more effectively then it would've been. The recent MOJ portal was a nightmare and ended up with the government simply producing something and telling the insurers to integrate it into their systems themselves. One of our record labels can send us a release, we can ingest it into our system and deliver it to all DSP's worldwide and the larger ones like iTunes and Spotify will have the content on store and ready to purchase within hours, and most of that time is simply waiting for content to transfer.
If we can do that with more data per day than MID will process a year, I'm sure such a system could be implemented.
LoonR1 said:
randlemarcus said:
OOh, PS Loon, thanks for the 2 seater reply. I had hoped that having 3 squishy teenager seats might have a logical reduction in risk, but your point is,as ever, well made and true. Damn your eyes
you've got a point to some extent as it will reduce the amount of passenger claims, but as 2 seaters tend to be sportier cars it will increase the severity and potentially frequency risk of them damaging others by colliding with them. SonicShadow said:
Indeed, though interestingly (or not) my MR2 was actually cheaper to insure than my Corsa was, despite being worth more, having 100bhp more and the other obvious differences. Bit of an odd one I guess.
Not really. There are lots of examples like that and cheaper can mean a few quid in £000s too so not necessarily statistically valid. Top Gear did a bit on it a few years ago and came out with a big Volvo estate working best for them. A lot depends on geography too. Cat said:
Just because I know how much you like pedantry the security must be lodged with the Accountant General of the Senior Courts, not HM Treasury. The amount of the security currently required is £500,000.
Cat
Correct. And you get no interest on it, so even at 1%, it's costing you £5K a year. Plus you still have to pay tp claims, and the £500,000 stays in reserve. the security must be lodged with the Accountant General of the Senior Courts, not HM Treasury. The amount of the security currently required is £500,000. Cat
Edited by Cat on Tuesday 14th April 11:45
When I bought a car last year, I changed my policy over to cover the new vehicle. I either gave the insurance company (AXA) the wrong registration or they keyed it in incorrectly. I didn't receive paper documents as everything is electronic these days and if I wanted a certificate, I could generate it and print it off.
I didn't print it, I don't need a paper copy, but either way, the registration error went unnoticed. I received a letter from MID stating I wasn't insured and it would be in my best interest to fix it pronto. I phoned AXA and the problem was discovered pretty quickly. They said it would be a £20 admin charge to update the policy...or I could go online and update it myself free of charge which I did. Sorted!
Excellent service from AXA, but more importantly for this thread, it took a number of weeks to get a letter from MID so would suggest they are a bit 'laggy' at their end. AXA stated that changes from their system would propagate quickly, no further action required. I checked MID a day or so later and it was up to date. If this isn't happening, I'd say you need to kick your insurer in to touch.
Incidentally, I'm currently managing a project implementing a system with very similar functionality that is talked about in this thread. We have different systems on different platforms in 27 country's all talking to a central computer and all sharing data in pretty much real time. The design and implementation of the solution is very simple. You implement a standard, in this case an XML schema and associated rules. If everybody's system plays by those rules, you can exchange data with each other, it's irrelevant if the system is from the 1980's or 2015. Computer systems exchanging data like this isn't anything new.
The hard bit in this type of project is agreeing on a standard and figuring out who the hell is involved and how on earth you manage things when a change is made to the central standards and it affects everybody you deal with.
I didn't print it, I don't need a paper copy, but either way, the registration error went unnoticed. I received a letter from MID stating I wasn't insured and it would be in my best interest to fix it pronto. I phoned AXA and the problem was discovered pretty quickly. They said it would be a £20 admin charge to update the policy...or I could go online and update it myself free of charge which I did. Sorted!
Excellent service from AXA, but more importantly for this thread, it took a number of weeks to get a letter from MID so would suggest they are a bit 'laggy' at their end. AXA stated that changes from their system would propagate quickly, no further action required. I checked MID a day or so later and it was up to date. If this isn't happening, I'd say you need to kick your insurer in to touch.
Incidentally, I'm currently managing a project implementing a system with very similar functionality that is talked about in this thread. We have different systems on different platforms in 27 country's all talking to a central computer and all sharing data in pretty much real time. The design and implementation of the solution is very simple. You implement a standard, in this case an XML schema and associated rules. If everybody's system plays by those rules, you can exchange data with each other, it's irrelevant if the system is from the 1980's or 2015. Computer systems exchanging data like this isn't anything new.
The hard bit in this type of project is agreeing on a standard and figuring out who the hell is involved and how on earth you manage things when a change is made to the central standards and it affects everybody you deal with.
Thanks for the above. You've just shown that a failed upload / miskeyed data does result in a letter from MID. The two week delay isn't a surprise as there's always going to be delays. However the OP says that he has had this policy in force since Jan with no letter from the MIB asking him to rectify.
LoonR1 said:
Thanks for the above. You've just shown that a failed upload / miskeyed data does result in a letter from MID. The two week delay isn't a surprise as there's always going to be delays. However the OP says that he has had this policy in force since Jan with no letter from the MIB asking him to rectify.
correct, and the vehicle details are correct on the ammended policy schedule also.Also STILL not shown as insured on the MID database.... will be calling the insurers in the next hour.
pulled up again this morning by the way........ still at a loss to explain exactly why its taken 3 months to get pulled over.. a change in route is all I can come up with...
Anyway - called th insurance company and it was stated that their complaints team is handling the case but they are unable to explain how or why the vehicle details were not changed back in January or why it hasnt been flagged by the MiD.
Thay also confirmed that all details were correct back in January and everything is up to date.
The guy initially told me that they had sent the paperwork off to the MiD yesterday, and then when I questioned why it wasnt done on Friday the answer was changed to - it was done on Friday. So who knows what the truth is, so far had absolutrely no explaination or reply from their complaints dept, but the guy on the phone did say that they are handling it and considering a good will payment for their error and the inconvenience caused. I did say that in all honesty I was more concerned about being puled over every day until this is sorted and was told it could take 14 working days from the register to be updated!
Anyway - called th insurance company and it was stated that their complaints team is handling the case but they are unable to explain how or why the vehicle details were not changed back in January or why it hasnt been flagged by the MiD.
Thay also confirmed that all details were correct back in January and everything is up to date.
The guy initially told me that they had sent the paperwork off to the MiD yesterday, and then when I questioned why it wasnt done on Friday the answer was changed to - it was done on Friday. So who knows what the truth is, so far had absolutrely no explaination or reply from their complaints dept, but the guy on the phone did say that they are handling it and considering a good will payment for their error and the inconvenience caused. I did say that in all honesty I was more concerned about being puled over every day until this is sorted and was told it could take 14 working days from the register to be updated!
Edited by hedgefinder on Tuesday 14th April 15:07
R8VXF said:
The MID could very easily be updated instantaneously actually. All that the MIB would need to provide would be an API that the insurers call when creating/changing a policy. No need for batching requests or "pulling data" from multiple sources, it should be a push based system.
This. I run software for a large fleet management company, and we register and deregister cars from HPI every day so they are clear when they go to auction. No reason technically the MID couldn't be adapted to work like this - probably just as usual the substantial logistics of actual human resourcing to get it achieved.TankRizzo said:
This. I run software for a large fleet management company, and we register and deregister cars from HPI every day so they are clear when they go to auction. No reason technically the MID couldn't be adapted to work like this - probably just as usual the substantial logistics of actual human resourcing to get it achieved.
Once again. That's your business it's what you do. Without it you'd look daft hence why you will spend a small fortune to get it right. This is not an insurer's core business, it is a bolt on to their operating model and one that will not receive funding beyond the bare minimum. talksthetorque said:
Can you ring MID up and ask them to check their spam folder?
Exasperating tale of woe, OP.
How sadly unsurprising that a big financial insitiute and/or a public sector body can't get their act together.
Spam folder. Hahahahaha. You've no grasp of the scale of this have you? Plus MID is a database not a person. Exasperating tale of woe, OP.
How sadly unsurprising that a big financial insitiute and/or a public sector body can't get their act together.
LoonR1 said:
talksthetorque said:
Can you ring MID up and ask them to check their spam folder?
Exasperating tale of woe, OP.
How sadly unsurprising that a big financial insitiute and/or a public sector body can't get their act together.
Spam folder. Hahahahaha. You've no grasp of the scale of this have you? Plus MID is a database not a person. Exasperating tale of woe, OP.
How sadly unsurprising that a big financial insitiute and/or a public sector body can't get their act together.
LoonR1 said:
Once again. That's your business it's what you do. Without it you'd look daft hence why you will spend a small fortune to get it right. This is not an insurer's core business, it is a bolt on to their operating model and one that will not receive funding beyond the bare minimum.
Yeah, I totally understand that. Perhaps moving to a system where the driver themselves could update the MID via an authorisation code generated by the insurer or broker could work, but again you would need work to identify an algorithm which could be used on both sides. There's no easy solution really.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff