NIP m25 variable 50. Bugger.
Discussion
robinessex said:
In all the times I've been through the Heathrow Section (the first), I've never seen it work in the manner in which advocates say it should/will. I've encountered all the faults that others have reported. I'm staggered that the advocates of this technology have seen fit to spread it further around the M25. I'm firmly of the opinion that the master plan is to populate the entire M25 with some sort of average speed system eventualy. Now, where's that revolving numberplate website.
It does work, but also it has faults it also operates well over capacity!! Just because you don't think it works doesn't mean it doesn't!!I also find it odd that last year there was this outcry in the press that the cameras on the M25 hadn't been turned on for years. Cue public outcry, waste of money, useless HA etc etc. Hey presto, surprise surprise now the cameras work!! Lots of people now getting NiPs all around the M25 including when nothing displayed!
Jbliss said:
it doesnt work though. There are still random traffic jams, often worse because of the temporary limit. People hit the brakes when they get to a gantry now which is more dangerous.
Can't tell you the number of times I've been sat stationary or at crawling pace with a matrix sign saying 40mph just ahead of me. Motorway temp limits are all but useless 90% of the time!calibrax said:
Jbliss said:
it doesnt work though. There are still random traffic jams, often worse because of the temporary limit. People hit the brakes when they get to a gantry now which is more dangerous.
Can't tell you the number of times I've been sat stationary or at crawling pace with a matrix sign saying 40mph just ahead of me. Motorway temp limits are all but useless 90% of the time!(Don't get me wrong, the system is far from perfect and is so old it keeps breaking, but when it does work it works well, the problem being is its success is its downfall, because when it prevents a jam, you'll never know because you just keep going wondering why those bloody speed limits were on again!!)
Landshark said:
That's because the motorway is saturated with traffic, no system could ever keep it flowing!!
(Don't get me wrong, the system is far from perfect and is so old it keeps breaking, but when it does work it works well, the problem being is its success is its downfall, because when it prevents a jam, you'll never know because you just keep going wondering why those bloody speed limits were on again!!)
Please remove common sense from your answers, Thank you (Don't get me wrong, the system is far from perfect and is so old it keeps breaking, but when it does work it works well, the problem being is its success is its downfall, because when it prevents a jam, you'll never know because you just keep going wondering why those bloody speed limits were on again!!)
richardrsc said:
speedyguy said:
A bit left field and I'll probably get flamed
Maybe the 50's are put up automatically worked out by the MIDAS loops in the road surface (or being the M25 the new laser measurement devices) and algorithmic mathematics to smooth the traffic flows down to keep traffic flowing steadily rather than the stop/go phantom queues of the old days as they know what is happening a couple of miles ahead out of your field of vision
There again i could be talking complete b
ks
So speedy - you're going along at , lets say 80 in the outside lane. You check your mirror and have someone fairly close to your tail. You see the limit ahead change to 50 a hundred meters out.Maybe the 50's are put up automatically worked out by the MIDAS loops in the road surface (or being the M25 the new laser measurement devices) and algorithmic mathematics to smooth the traffic flows down to keep traffic flowing steadily rather than the stop/go phantom queues of the old days as they know what is happening a couple of miles ahead out of your field of vision
There again i could be talking complete b
ks Do you
A. Ease off the accelerator.
B. Slam on the brakes.
richardrsc said:
speedyguy said:
A bit left field and I'll probably get flamed
Maybe the 50's are put up automatically worked out by the MIDAS loops in the road surface (or being the M25 the new laser measurement devices) and algorithmic mathematics to smooth the traffic flows down to keep traffic flowing steadily rather than the stop/go phantom queues of the old days as they know what is happening a couple of miles ahead out of your field of vision
There again i could be talking complete bks
So speedy - you're going along at , lets say 80 in the outside lane. You check your mirror and have someone fairly close to your tail. You see the limit ahead change to 50 a hundred meters out.Maybe the 50's are put up automatically worked out by the MIDAS loops in the road surface (or being the M25 the new laser measurement devices) and algorithmic mathematics to smooth the traffic flows down to keep traffic flowing steadily rather than the stop/go phantom queues of the old days as they know what is happening a couple of miles ahead out of your field of vision
There again i could be talking complete b
ks Do you
A. Ease off the accelerator.
B. Slam on the brakes.
Or to put it another way. Do you.
A. Take 3 points.
B. Not take 3 points.
When the limit that is being enforced is lower than the 'safe' limit for the road and is imposed for traffic management reasons, not safety, yet people are fined for safety reasons, it kind of brings the whole speed enforcement/speed limit 'business' into disrepute. Perhaps there should be a different mandatory speed limit sign when the limit is imposed for traffic management, and there should be a fine only - like a parking ticket, but no points.
Mr GrimNasty said:
When the limit that is being enforced is lower than the 'safe' limit for the road and is imposed for traffic management reasons, not safety, yet people are fined for safety reasons, it kind of brings the whole speed enforcement/speed limit 'business' into disrepute. Perhaps there should be a different mandatory speed limit sign when the limit is imposed for traffic management, and there should be a fine only - like a parking ticket, but no points.
Yup Davidonly said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
When the limit that is being enforced is lower than the 'safe' limit for the road and is imposed for traffic management reasons, not safety, yet people are fined for safety reasons, it kind of brings the whole speed enforcement/speed limit 'business' into disrepute. Perhaps there should be a different mandatory speed limit sign when the limit is imposed for traffic management, and there should be a fine only - like a parking ticket, but no points.
Yup Devil2575 said:
richardrsc said:
So speedy - you're going along at , lets say 80 in the outside lane. You check your mirror and have someone fairly close to your tail. You see the limit ahead change to 50 a hundred meters out.
Do you
A. Ease off the accelerator.
B. Slam on the brakes.
False dichotomy. Neither, I'd brake gently to start with increasing once I'm sure the car behind has clocked me. Simply easing off doesn't light up the brakes so the car behind is less likely to notice you slowing, at least initially.Do you
A. Ease off the accelerator.
B. Slam on the brakes.
Devil2575 said:
Quite why anyone has a problem with speed cameras on the M25 is beyond me. It's an overcrowded sthole of a road. It's certainly not one I've ever had any opportunity or desire to go fast on.
NSL, rigidly enforced, on a good day, normal traffic moving at 65 to 70, on a bad day 70/60/50/40 alternating like a disco, on a really bad day 40 imposed as you are sat in gridlock. Fast doesn't even come up on the radar on that sthole of a road. It's certainly not one I've ever had any opportunity or desire to go fast on.thole of a roadDevil2575 said:
richardrsc said:
Devil2575 said:
False dichotomy. Neither, I'd brake gently to start with increasing once I'm sure the car behind has clocked me. Simply easing off doesn't light up the brakes so the car behind is less likely to notice you slowing, at least initially.
At 80mph, you are travelling ~36 metres a second. You have under 3 seconds in which to pass that gantry at the 50 limit.You spend the first 1.5 seconds breaking and waiting to see if the car behind you is slowing. Now you really hammer the breaks on?
The road ahead is clear.
Edited by 2013BRM on Sunday 19th April 00:21
2013BRM said:
Devil2575 said:
richardrsc said:
Devil2575 said:
False dichotomy. Neither, I'd brake gently to start with increasing once I'm sure the car behind has clocked me. Simply easing off doesn't light up the brakes so the car behind is less likely to notice you slowing, at least initially.
At 80mph, you are travelling ~36 metres a second. You have under 3 seconds in which to pass that gantry at the 50 limit.You spend the first 1.5 seconds breaking and waiting to see if the car behind you is slowing. Now you really hammer the breaks on?
The road ahead is clear.
In anticipation, unless you have seen it just turn green, as you approach the traffic light, which is normally at a junction, you will lift off the throttle, if only slightly. That is to say, you will prepare for the need to stop.
If one were to practise the same technique on these "smart motorways" (an oxymoron if ever there was one), the consequent effect on traffic flow would in comparison make today's traffic conditions seem a paragon of ceaseless efficiency.
My personal favourite misuse of variable limits was a few years ago: New Year's Eve, M25, midnight, the road was absolutely deserted except for me. Nevertheless, the entire western section was 40 mph limit.
2013BRM said:
traffic lights give you advanced warning, you see them ahead, a gantry doesn't, it just changes,
Overhead gantry signs that flash up a speed limit reduction give far more warning than a traffic light changing from green to amber / red - a full 7 seconds more, to be fair.In my extensive experience of M25 trundling, the temporary limits appear without obvious reason about 30% of the time, this was previously 50+% but has improved over recent weeks.
Perhaps the measure of the capability of the system is that I've been stationary on a couple of occasions recently in jams with no visible endpoint ahead but no temporary limit on the approach or whilst in the jam, so the system is incapable of performing the task it was designed to do.
Perhaps the measure of the capability of the system is that I've been stationary on a couple of occasions recently in jams with no visible endpoint ahead but no temporary limit on the approach or whilst in the jam, so the system is incapable of performing the task it was designed to do.
2013BRM said:
Devil2575 said:
richardrsc said:
Devil2575 said:
False dichotomy. Neither, I'd brake gently to start with increasing once I'm sure the car behind has clocked me. Simply easing off doesn't light up the brakes so the car behind is less likely to notice you slowing, at least initially.
At 80mph, you are travelling ~36 metres a second. You have under 3 seconds in which to pass that gantry at the 50 limit.You spend the first 1.5 seconds breaking and waiting to see if the car behind you is slowing. Now you really hammer the breaks on?
The road ahead is clear.
Edited by 2013BRM on Sunday 19th April 00:21
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