NIP m25 variable 50. Bugger.
Discussion
Phatboy317 said:
How many people don't know that?
Pretty much everyone. Could I pull a figure from my butt and suggest 98%? And if you happen to be looking at something else when they change - maybe at for example, possible hazards, you won't know to the second when they changed.I think a lot of people suggesting that it's always gridlocked must be hitting it during the day - I always do it in the evenings (between 6 and 10 pm) towards the latter end of that period it can be pretty clear - still get silly limits through.
I'm concerned at the lack of forward observation prevalent on this forum. The gantries are far enough apart and big enough that you can see well enough in advance a limit has gone up or you'll be under it within the grace period. IMO these systems are under utilised - on the M1 especially hard shoulder running should be more common place, even with the 60 limit that comes with it.
And the guy who complained the limits change randomly at night, its to do with the works planned - the limits are set long before any work force arrives. If more people trusted the system, sat at the limit with a 2 second gap between them and the vehicle in front, kept left when not over taking - lane 1 is normally empty whilst 2,3 and 4 are rammed - and looked ahead, journeys round london would be shorter and more relaxing.
And the guy who complained the limits change randomly at night, its to do with the works planned - the limits are set long before any work force arrives. If more people trusted the system, sat at the limit with a 2 second gap between them and the vehicle in front, kept left when not over taking - lane 1 is normally empty whilst 2,3 and 4 are rammed - and looked ahead, journeys round london would be shorter and more relaxing.
calibrax said:
Jbliss said:
it doesnt work though. There are still random traffic jams, often worse because of the temporary limit. People hit the brakes when they get to a gantry now which is more dangerous.
Can't tell you the number of times I've been sat stationary or at crawling pace with a matrix sign saying 40mph just ahead of me. Motorway temp limits are all but useless 90% of the time!Anyway knowing the new systems have minimal tolerance for difference between gantry to actual speed I now religiously stick to what the next gantry says despite it seems 90%+ of other cars ignoring it.. wonder how many of those get tickets through?
Even when NSL/nothing is shown there is no way I'm doing more than 10%+2mph for the gantries with cameras anymore - had a mate get flashed for not that much more over that.
Devil2575 said:
2013BRM said:
fine, if you have the space to do it, the point you have missed is that they change suddenly, without obvious reasons
I get the point you're trying to make but as has been pointed out in later posts it's not really credible.2013BRM said:
We'll have to agree to disagree then, I haven't been caught out yet because I concentrate far more than I believe is safe ie not at my immediate surrounding on my speed and the gantries. As others have pointed out, you can easily miss the brief flash period and be completely unaware of this 7 second grace period
It's 10 seconds - 7 seconds more than the amber only phase of a traffic light.SS2. said:
2013BRM said:
We'll have to agree to disagree then, I haven't been caught out yet because I concentrate far more than I believe is safe ie not at my immediate surrounding on my speed and the gantries. As others have pointed out, you can easily miss the brief flash period and be completely unaware of this 7 second grace period
It's 10 seconds - 7 seconds more than the amber only phase of a traffic light.Most of the Police and HA stuff I've read indicates a one minute grace period. Like here - https://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/advice/vehic...
Magic919 said:
Most of the Police and HA stuff I've read indicates a one minute grace period. Like here - https://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/advice/vehic...
Doesn't this rubbish all the hypothetical scenarios made up by people trying to support their arguments...Devil2575 said:
Doesn't this rubbish all the hypothetical scenarios made up by people trying to support their arguments...
Well it's rather clear you didn't know about it, as you're suggested manoeuvre on noticing one 100m out was to brake, checking that the car behind you was also slowing, and then braking some more. In less than 3 seconds.I wonder how many other people are as ignorant of the grace period as you were yesterday?
Glad you don't drive the m25 much as I'd hate to be behind you.
Edited by richardrsc on Sunday 19th April 14:04
richardrsc said:
Devil2575 said:
Doesn't this rubbish all the hypothetical scenarios made up by people trying to support their arguments...
Well it's rather clear you didn't know about it, as you're suggested manoeuvre on noticing one 100m out was to brake, checking that the car behind you was also slowing, and then braking some more. In less than 3 seconds.I wonder how many other people are as ignorant of the grace period as you were yesterday?
I was saying that you didn't need to either stamp on the brakes and risk causing a crash or get a ticket. My thoughts on this seemed to be correct.
Perhaps if people stopped making up stories to trying and prove their half baked views there would be less silly posts on PH...
Devil2575 said:
So what? My response was to suggest a safe manoeuvre which in the circumstances was entirely reasonable.
I was saying that you didn't need to either stamp on the brakes and risk causing a crash or get a ticket. My thoughts on this seemed to be correct.
Perhaps if people stopped making up stories to trying and prove their half baked views there would be less silly posts on PH...
Breaking from 80 to 40 quickly with a car close behind you on the motorway, when the way ahead is clear is a safe manoeuvre?I was saying that you didn't need to either stamp on the brakes and risk causing a crash or get a ticket. My thoughts on this seemed to be correct.
Perhaps if people stopped making up stories to trying and prove their half baked views there would be less silly posts on PH...
As I said, if you haven't seen that situation on the m25, you clearly haven't been driving it.
richardrsc said:
Devil2575 said:
So what? My response was to suggest a safe manoeuvre which in the circumstances was entirely reasonable.
I was saying that you didn't need to either stamp on the brakes and risk causing a crash or get a ticket. My thoughts on this seemed to be correct.
Perhaps if people stopped making up stories to trying and prove their half baked views there would be less silly posts on PH...
Breaking from 80 to 40 quickly with a car close behind you on the motorway, when the way ahead is clear is a safe manoeuvre?I was saying that you didn't need to either stamp on the brakes and risk causing a crash or get a ticket. My thoughts on this seemed to be correct.
Perhaps if people stopped making up stories to trying and prove their half baked views there would be less silly posts on PH...
As I said, if you haven't seen that situation on the m25, you clearly haven't been driving it.
Im sure theres a grace period (M25) but its an absolute offence so if approching an gantry with cameras, I normally end up braking (if safe) and moving across behind traffic in the middle lane as most people ignore them initially. A significant proportion of the time this happens its on a clear motorway which results in sitting in the inside lane at 50 watching traffic go flying past at 70+. The intentions of the system may be tested in the lab but they dont seem to translate to real world experience. Even when busy, the traffic controls the speed more than the gantrys i.e. theres far too much lag, although it does seem to work for accidents. The other issue is that a significant number of people dont seem to understand what a red X means.
another thread here seems to show divided opinion too
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
2013BRM said:
I'm afraid, Richard, that Devil is from that alternative universe invented by VH whereby anything that suggests our current speed enforcement infrastructure is in any way lacking is met with absolute denial. At least I had the grace to accept our experiences were different and not resort to belittlement
Yes it does seem that way!I did that journey again tonight, as I do a couple of times a week, and can confirm that they definitely do go from nothing to a 40 every now and again.
I see the current PH lead story is also talking this exact same hypothetical nonsense!
richardrsc said:
Devil2575 said:
So what? My response was to suggest a safe manoeuvre which in the circumstances was entirely reasonable.
I was saying that you didn't need to either stamp on the brakes and risk causing a crash or get a ticket. My thoughts on this seemed to be correct.
Perhaps if people stopped making up stories to trying and prove their half baked views there would be less silly posts on PH...
Breaking from 80 to 40 quickly with a car close behind you on the motorway, when the way ahead is clear is a safe manoeuvre?I was saying that you didn't need to either stamp on the brakes and risk causing a crash or get a ticket. My thoughts on this seemed to be correct.
Perhaps if people stopped making up stories to trying and prove their half baked views there would be less silly posts on PH...
As I said, if you haven't seen that situation on the m25, you clearly haven't been driving it.
The manoeuvre is either safe or not, regardless of what is going on in the road ahead.
Maybe the M25 is full of people who don't understand there is a grace period and would rather hammer the brakes and risk a crash rather than safely slow at a sensible rate. Or maybe you and others are desperately making up or exaggerating scenarios to try and prove some point.
Devil2575 said:
So how many crashes have resulted in the new enforced variable limits? The post I responded too was 50 mph, not 40. It also works on the premise that someone who is prepared to do 80 mph in a 70 limit then feels the need to stick exactly to the new limit. Maybe you should go back and read my post and you'll see that I didn't say braking quickly.
The manoeuvre is either safe or not, regardless of what is going on in the road ahead.
Maybe the M25 is full of people who don't understand there is a grace period and would rather hammer the brakes and risk a crash rather than safely slow at a sensible rate. Or maybe you and others are desperately making up or exaggerating scenarios to try and prove some point.
I have no idea how many have been caused, but it's not exactly infrequent to see crashes on the outside lane. I suspect they are a combination of factors, this would certainly add to it.The manoeuvre is either safe or not, regardless of what is going on in the road ahead.
Maybe the M25 is full of people who don't understand there is a grace period and would rather hammer the brakes and risk a crash rather than safely slow at a sensible rate. Or maybe you and others are desperately making up or exaggerating scenarios to try and prove some point.
I'm afraid it's completely factually correct to say that your approach is far more likely to cause an accident than mine, however legally I'm sure you're spot on. Just goes to show what a ridiculous system we have.
So, just how frequently have you driven that section recently?
2013BRM said:
I'm afraid, Richard, that Devil is from that alternative universe invented by VH whereby anything that suggests our current speed enforcement infrastructure is in any way lacking is met with absolute denial. At least I had the grace to accept our experiences were different and not resort to belittlement
I rarely if ever comment on what I think of actual limits or enforcement. However I don't buy a lot of the rubbish spouted on here by people trying to claim that some how speed enforcement makes out roads less safe. Devil2575 said:
I rarely if ever comment on what I think of actual limits or enforcement. However I don't buy a lot of the rubbish spouted on here by people trying to claim that some how speed enforcement makes out roads less safe.
Braking rapidly in front of a car on the motorway is less safe than doing 62 mph in a 50 mph limit on a relatively clear road. I have no doubt about that. Have you read the lead article today?Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff