Beavis v Parking Eye procedural rules/reserved Judgement
Discussion
Phatboy317 said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
How would you then differentiate between those that are unavoidably delayed and those who intentionally pay for less than they require in the knowledge that can argue 'medical issues'?
So you hit someone unavoidably delayed by some very serious, life-changing medical condition with a huge fine, and accept no "excuses"?There's a word for people who do things like that.
If you can't find a better way to do it then don't do it.
Countdown said:
Phatboy317 said:
The subject was specifically hospital car parks.
What makes this doubly wrong is that the same parking charges which were purportedly introduced to ensure sufficient parking places for patients is now being used against those very patients.
Beavis isn't about hospital car parks. Some posters are using hospital car parks in the same way the anti-speed brigade use the "Won't somebody think of the children?" line.What makes this doubly wrong is that the same parking charges which were purportedly introduced to ensure sufficient parking places for patients is now being used against those very patients.
PurpleMoonlight said:
V8 Fettler said:
For a consumer, the contract needs to be fair. I don't see how requiring someone to pay £50 (or more) for overstaying in a hospital car park is fair if that person is dealing with medical issues.
How would you then differentiate between those that are unavoidably delayed and those who intentionally pay for less than they require in the knowledge that can argue 'medical issues'?Countdown said:
And people parking without paying the appropriate amount are the ones reducing the availability of spaces for other people.
Yeah right! If I pay £10 instead of £8 it somehow frees up the parking space for someone else, does it? 
Besides, if I'm rich then I can pay for a full day's parking, when I only really need it for 5 minutes, and block it for everyone else for the whole day without fear of penalty.
Edited by Phatboy317 on Sunday 26th April 09:47
Having had to use a few local hospitals recently most are at least sensible enough to have you pay on exit.
Of those, one uses a system which seems deliberately intended to confuse as I can't believe anyone could design something so bad thinking it is good - you collect a ticket on entry, you "remember" the time you entered, and on your way back to the car you find a ticket machine, enter your reg number, and simply pay the required amount - whether you've paid or not you can drive off.
Personally I think it's a terrible system because, and I hate to sound ageist, hospitals are full of elderly people, elderly people aren't all that great with technology on the whole, and there's something a little troubling about standing behind half a dozen octogenarians watching them trying to figure out the ticket machines, half them of them don't know their own car registration, then you think "Hmm someone decided this was the best option did they?".
Oh and the other hospital car park was pay and display - because of course when you're going to hospital you know exactly how long you're going to be.
On a personal level my one experience with Parking Eye (or someone similar, I forget if it was them) was when I get a penalty charge from a motorway services station where I'd gone to see a relative who I hadn't seen for some years and dared to stay for 3 hours - as much as I resented the penalty there were signs and there were pay and display machines if you over-stayed the 3 hours - I simply hadn't even considered that a motorway services would charge for parking so I wasn't looking for either.
I paid it because £50 made it go away.
Of those, one uses a system which seems deliberately intended to confuse as I can't believe anyone could design something so bad thinking it is good - you collect a ticket on entry, you "remember" the time you entered, and on your way back to the car you find a ticket machine, enter your reg number, and simply pay the required amount - whether you've paid or not you can drive off.
Personally I think it's a terrible system because, and I hate to sound ageist, hospitals are full of elderly people, elderly people aren't all that great with technology on the whole, and there's something a little troubling about standing behind half a dozen octogenarians watching them trying to figure out the ticket machines, half them of them don't know their own car registration, then you think "Hmm someone decided this was the best option did they?".
Oh and the other hospital car park was pay and display - because of course when you're going to hospital you know exactly how long you're going to be.
On a personal level my one experience with Parking Eye (or someone similar, I forget if it was them) was when I get a penalty charge from a motorway services station where I'd gone to see a relative who I hadn't seen for some years and dared to stay for 3 hours - as much as I resented the penalty there were signs and there were pay and display machines if you over-stayed the 3 hours - I simply hadn't even considered that a motorway services would charge for parking so I wasn't looking for either.
I paid it because £50 made it go away.
Terminator X said:
JustinP1 said:
The problem is there are a significant number of people who take the piss. It is those who have meant that the system is financially viable, been put in place, and unfortunately not allowed your wife the leniency she would otherwise have been given.
Do you really think that the majority are taking the piss rather than the system is set up to catch the majority who are simply a few minutes late and then can't be bothered to contest it?TX.
Ken Figenus said:
And...
There is a reason they don't want you to be able to pay for what you actually used on exit (as you can in say a multistorey). They would rather set up a complex ANPR system to chase you for a 'fine' rather than have a simpler fairer, instant, proportionate, pay on exit barrier...
That seems a fairer nicer system to me rather than crystal balling it on entry.
Simples...
Bull, JustinP1 is spot on and the amount of vandalism of legitimate barriers is widespread, There is a reason they don't want you to be able to pay for what you actually used on exit (as you can in say a multistorey). They would rather set up a complex ANPR system to chase you for a 'fine' rather than have a simpler fairer, instant, proportionate, pay on exit barrier...
That seems a fairer nicer system to me rather than crystal balling it on entry.
Simples...
Anyway with the odd accidents with barriers and gates smacking and killing people I'm surprised H&S haven't banned them now ANPR has been invented
Why would anyone take the piss in a car park? what do they do, park, go and get a paper and then spend 2 hours walking aimlessly about in the rain to stick it to the man. The other week I managed to leave my house, drive to the trafford centre, park up, buy a keyboard and be back on my drive in 30 mins, this was on a Sunday afternoon. I didn't hang around for 10 hours until I got a ticket.
Its a bit like saying everyone will crash if they abolish speed limits. Obviously everyone will drive their new £30K car at 90 round a hairpin bend and right it off.
Its a bit like saying everyone will crash if they abolish speed limits. Obviously everyone will drive their new £30K car at 90 round a hairpin bend and right it off.
Phatboy317 said:
This is what I was replying to - very specifically about hospital car parks:
Ok, but as I said earlier, it seems people are using the "won't somebody think of the hospital attenders" defence when hospitals aren't the main issue. In my experience it is people wanting to park for free rather than actually use a NCP-type pay park. One example of this is Woodfield Retail Park in Bury. People were choosing to park there all day to avoid paying to park at Millgate or The Rock. This meant that people who actually wanted to shop at Woodfield couldn't park there. So the landlords have started using Parking Eye. If they'd wanted to do it as some kind of money making exercise they would have done it from Day 1. They were effectively forced to do it because of twuntish behaviour.Phatboy317 said:
Yeah right! If I pay £10 instead of £8 it somehow frees up the parking space for someone else, does it?
No. But it ensures that you actually PAY for the amount of time you've used, rather than freeloading off others. Phatboy317 said:
Besides, if I'm rich then I can pay for a full day's parking, when I only really need it for 5 minutes, and block it for everyone else for the whole day without fear of penalty.
So you only need to be at the "hospital" for 5 minutes but you're going to leave your car there all day out of spite? Or because you're entitled to? Fine by me. You paid your money you can do what you want.Our firm has a shared car park in Manchester. There are numerous pay parks throughout Manchester. there are big red signs saying "DO NOT PARK - PRIVATE". Still doesn't stop the twunts though.
stuart313 said:
Why would anyone take the piss in a car park? what do they do, park, go and get a paper and then spend 2 hours walking aimlessly about in the rain to stick it to the man.
It's quite easy to spend a day in Manchester City centre shopping/eating/whatever. But scrotey people begrudge paying so they use private car parks.The Trafford Centre is in the middle of nowehere (in terms of walking distance). i.e. You wouldn't park there and go elsewhere for shopping just to save a couple of quid. So Intu are pretty sure that all the money you spend will be spent in "their" shops
98elise said:
JustinP1 said:
Imagine any other situation where you enter into a contract and agree to do something, but you don't do it. Is that taking the piss?
Then, if in that contract, it outlined the financial consequence of not doing what you agreed to do at the outset, is it fair that you suck up that pre-agreed cost?
I can't think of another contract that you walk into implicity where similar penalties are levied. Then, if in that contract, it outlined the financial consequence of not doing what you agreed to do at the outset, is it fair that you suck up that pre-agreed cost?
The internet is provided through my phone. If I go over the free internet limit, I have to pay a big chunk per GB.
If I don't pay that phone bill, the contract says they can cut me off, refuse to supply me, and I'll have to pay the rest of the contract plus recovery fees if necessary.
I'm sat on a sofa from DFS where if the direct debit doesn't go out, they charge me £20 for trying again. If I still don't pay I have to pay further recovery costs.
That sofa is in a rented house where I agree that if I don't pay the rent, my family can be evicted, and be in breach of contract and would be liable for the rent for the rest of the year.
And guess what - if I drive to my local town, park in the supermarket and walk to the shops, and I'm not back within 2 hours, then the 'free' parking then costs me £50.
What's so hard?
Edited by JustinP1 on Sunday 26th April 11:45
V8 Fettler said:
There is something deeply cynical about taking tax money to build hospital car parks (PFI is eventually paid for by the tax payer) and then charge patients to use the same car parks and then extorting substantial sums from the same when they are delayed due to a medical process.
The solution? Manage the issue to the benefit of patients.
That is of course exactly what they are trying to do. They have parking controls to try and discourage people from parking on the hospital site whilst they are not at the hospital. The easiest and cheapest way to manage a car park is pay and display, its easy to use understood by drivers etc.The solution? Manage the issue to the benefit of patients.
In my experience if using hospital car parks there has always been a procedure for those that are delayed by medical issues to ensure that they are not fined etc, although I have always had to ask.
The simple reality is that we would not be in this position if people didn't take the piss, and it is not until you manage a piece of land that can be used as parking that you become aware of how big an issue it is.
You only need to read the threads about people parking in my space, blocking me in etc to realise what an issue parking is.
Assuming one has a car park / area of land where controlled entry and exit is not practical / permissible then, as stated before, my opinion on the civilised way to deal with this is as follows.
Clear signs of the terms and conditions of use, very clear. Also set out clearly and not in the small print the consequences of failing to adhere to the T&Cs. Any charge to be at similar level to that imposed by the local council in respect of on/off street offences.
First time an unauthorised vehicle is detected then notice to driver/RK is issued setting out the non compliance, that on this occasion for a first offence the charge would be waived as a one time only occasion.
Future offences followed up, and if someone really does take the mick then court it is. Assuming a win and they still don't pay then court enforcement officers instructed.
Clear signs of the terms and conditions of use, very clear. Also set out clearly and not in the small print the consequences of failing to adhere to the T&Cs. Any charge to be at similar level to that imposed by the local council in respect of on/off street offences.
First time an unauthorised vehicle is detected then notice to driver/RK is issued setting out the non compliance, that on this occasion for a first offence the charge would be waived as a one time only occasion.
Future offences followed up, and if someone really does take the mick then court it is. Assuming a win and they still don't pay then court enforcement officers instructed.
FiF said:
Assuming one has a car park / area of land where controlled entry and exit is not practical / permissible then, as stated before, my opinion on the civilised way to deal with this is as follows.
Clear signs of the terms and conditions of use, very clear. Also set out clearly and not in the small print the consequences of failing to adhere to the T&Cs. Any charge to be at similar level to that imposed by the local council in respect of on/off street offences.
First time an unauthorised vehicle is detected then notice to driver/RK is issued setting out the non compliance, that on this occasion for a first offence the charge would be waived as a one time only occasion.
Future offences followed up, and if someone really does take the mick then court it is. Assuming a win and they still don't pay then court enforcement officers instructed.
Sounds fine.Clear signs of the terms and conditions of use, very clear. Also set out clearly and not in the small print the consequences of failing to adhere to the T&Cs. Any charge to be at similar level to that imposed by the local council in respect of on/off street offences.
First time an unauthorised vehicle is detected then notice to driver/RK is issued setting out the non compliance, that on this occasion for a first offence the charge would be waived as a one time only occasion.
Future offences followed up, and if someone really does take the mick then court it is. Assuming a win and they still don't pay then court enforcement officers instructed.
Could we have the full costs of the above process subsidised by Council taxpayers as well? The LA has the time and the money to do the above because it is using taxpayers money to prosecute people - small businesses don't. Companies like PE provide a much more cost-effective deterrent.
And AIUI no council has a "Let you off the first time" policy.
JustinP1 said:
I'm typing on a laptop where if I don't give Currys the interest free credit I signed up for, I'll end up paying hundreds of pounds in interest as I agreed it would be interest bearing at 29% PA if I didn't pay.
The internet is provided through my phone. If I go over the free internet limit, I have to pay a big chunk per GB.
If I don't pay that phone bill, the contract says they can cut me off, refuse to supply me, and I'll have to pay the rest of the contract plus recovery fees if necessary.
I'm sat on a sofa from DFS where if the direct debit doesn't go out, they charge me £20 for trying again. If I still don't pay I have to pay further recovery costs.
That sofa is in a rented house where I agree that if I don't pay the rent, my family can be evicted, and be in breach of contract and would be liable for the rent for the rest of the year.
And guess what - if I drive to my local town, park in the supermarket and walk to the shops, and I'm not back within 2 hours, then the 'free' parking then costs me £50.
What's so hard?
I'm sure you must of put pen to paper to agree to most of these terms? Maybe ppcs should have someone on the entrance with a form....The internet is provided through my phone. If I go over the free internet limit, I have to pay a big chunk per GB.
If I don't pay that phone bill, the contract says they can cut me off, refuse to supply me, and I'll have to pay the rest of the contract plus recovery fees if necessary.
I'm sat on a sofa from DFS where if the direct debit doesn't go out, they charge me £20 for trying again. If I still don't pay I have to pay further recovery costs.
That sofa is in a rented house where I agree that if I don't pay the rent, my family can be evicted, and be in breach of contract and would be liable for the rent for the rest of the year.
And guess what - if I drive to my local town, park in the supermarket and walk to the shops, and I'm not back within 2 hours, then the 'free' parking then costs me £50.
What's so hard?
Edited by JustinP1 on Sunday 26th April 11:45
Funkycoldribena said:
JustinP1 said:
I'm typing on a laptop where if I don't give Currys the interest free credit I signed up for, I'll end up paying hundreds of pounds in interest as I agreed it would be interest bearing at 29% PA if I didn't pay.
The internet is provided through my phone. If I go over the free internet limit, I have to pay a big chunk per GB.
If I don't pay that phone bill, the contract says they can cut me off, refuse to supply me, and I'll have to pay the rest of the contract plus recovery fees if necessary.
I'm sat on a sofa from DFS where if the direct debit doesn't go out, they charge me £20 for trying again. If I still don't pay I have to pay further recovery costs.
That sofa is in a rented house where I agree that if I don't pay the rent, my family can be evicted, and be in breach of contract and would be liable for the rent for the rest of the year.
And guess what - if I drive to my local town, park in the supermarket and walk to the shops, and I'm not back within 2 hours, then the 'free' parking then costs me £50.
What's so hard?
I'm sure you must of put pen to paper to agree to most of these terms? Maybe ppcs should have someone on the entrance with a form....The internet is provided through my phone. If I go over the free internet limit, I have to pay a big chunk per GB.
If I don't pay that phone bill, the contract says they can cut me off, refuse to supply me, and I'll have to pay the rest of the contract plus recovery fees if necessary.
I'm sat on a sofa from DFS where if the direct debit doesn't go out, they charge me £20 for trying again. If I still don't pay I have to pay further recovery costs.
That sofa is in a rented house where I agree that if I don't pay the rent, my family can be evicted, and be in breach of contract and would be liable for the rent for the rest of the year.
And guess what - if I drive to my local town, park in the supermarket and walk to the shops, and I'm not back within 2 hours, then the 'free' parking then costs me £50.
What's so hard?
Edited by JustinP1 on Sunday 26th April 11:45
JustinP1 said:
Are there still people who post on here that believe a contract is only formed by writing your name with ink on a piece of paper?
Just taking your Currys and dfs analysis! See how far you get without signing the hp.The answer to all this is to have ppcs with a form on entrance and exit then there can be no confusion over signage etc.
Funkycoldribena said:
JustinP1 said:
Are there still people who post on here that believe a contract is only formed by writing your name with ink on a piece of paper?
Just taking your Currys and dfs analysis! See how far you get without signing the hp.The answer to all this is to have ppcs with a form on entrance and exit then there can be no confusion over signage etc.
Besides, I actually got the IFC for the laptop over the internet. No ink signature, wax based family seal or vial of blood needed.
Same with the phone. No ink or numpty holding up paperwork needed.
Just a bit of responsibility for my own actions, and acceptance if I f
k up, I've got no-one else to blame.JustinP1 said:
We both know that's silly and pointless.
Besides, I actually got the IFC for the laptop over the internet. No ink signature, wax based family seal or vial of blood needed.
Same with the phone. No ink or numpty holding up paperwork needed.
Just a bit of responsibility for my own actions, and acceptance if I fk up, I've got no-one else to blame.
Im sure you had to tick a box.Maybe a booking system on the ppcs website then?Besides, I actually got the IFC for the laptop over the internet. No ink signature, wax based family seal or vial of blood needed.
Same with the phone. No ink or numpty holding up paperwork needed.
Just a bit of responsibility for my own actions, and acceptance if I f
k up, I've got no-one else to blame.Funkycoldribena said:
JustinP1 said:
We both know that's silly and pointless.
Besides, I actually got the IFC for the laptop over the internet. No ink signature, wax based family seal or vial of blood needed.
Same with the phone. No ink or numpty holding up paperwork needed.
Just a bit of responsibility for my own actions, and acceptance if I fk up, I've got no-one else to blame.
Im sure you had to tick a box.Maybe a booking system on the ppcs website then?Besides, I actually got the IFC for the laptop over the internet. No ink signature, wax based family seal or vial of blood needed.
Same with the phone. No ink or numpty holding up paperwork needed.
Just a bit of responsibility for my own actions, and acceptance if I f
k up, I've got no-one else to blame.Or that ticking a virtual box somewhere is actually the issue that would solve everything?
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