Are we missing the point re parking?
Discussion
All this selfish parking / ripoff private companies profiteering etc. If every council stopped making a profit out of parking and instead provided ample free on and off road parking in our towns the problem would disappear.
As regards paying for it, make a tiny adjustment to council tax bills and sack all the gimps wandering around our streets issuing tickets. We'll all pay slightly more on CT and the world will be a nicer place.
Don't forget some of the biggest losers since these morons in the council decided to get their noses in the car-fleecing trough are small retailers who pay a fortune to the business rates scam.
Private parking companies are only here because of the squeeze.
As regards paying for it, make a tiny adjustment to council tax bills and sack all the gimps wandering around our streets issuing tickets. We'll all pay slightly more on CT and the world will be a nicer place.
Don't forget some of the biggest losers since these morons in the council decided to get their noses in the car-fleecing trough are small retailers who pay a fortune to the business rates scam.
Private parking companies are only here because of the squeeze.
Dammit said:
How would you provide ample parking? In many places (Winchester springs to mind here) you would need to bulldoze the town centre to provide enough space for all the people to park in order to visit the town centre.
Which wouldn't be there anymore, so nobody would go, so parking problems solved.I think we are on to something.
supermono said:
If every council stopped making a profit out of parking and instead provided ample free on and off road parking in our towns the problem would disappear.
Assuming you could find free space in a town on which to build a car park, which magic pot of money are you expecting to fund the construction of this "ample free on and off road parking"? Councils are cutting services to make ends meet and don't have spare money.supermono said:
All this selfish parking / ripoff private companies profiteering etc. If every council stopped making a profit out of parking and instead provided ample free on and off road parking in our towns the problem would disappear.
To make this concise:The supermono plan: Demolish areas around the town centre (compulsory purchases?), create free parking. Hit the taxpayer with the cost of the building work and compensation.
The JustinP1 plan: Educate the general public that when they park their car, they must simply read the sign before they leave, and comply. Or parking costs £50 each time. Cost to taxpayer: zero.
Sorry for being unclear. I'm not suggesting providing any additional parking just not charging people to use what's there. It may cost slightly more in CT but savings made sacking a load of traffic wardens and processing clarks administering the collection of fees and fines. Sure keep double yellows where necessary and have a small team of folks making sure traffic is moving.
supermono said:
All this selfish parking / ripoff private companies profiteering etc. If every council stopped making a profit out of parking and instead provided ample free on and off road parking in our towns the problem would disappear.
As regards paying for it, make a tiny adjustment to council tax bills and sack all the gimps wandering around our streets issuing tickets. We'll all pay slightly more on CT and the world will be a nicer place.
Don't forget some of the biggest losers since these morons in the council decided to get their noses in the car-fleecing trough are small retailers who pay a fortune to the business rates scam.
Private parking companies are only here because of the squeeze.
I've been saying this for a long time.As regards paying for it, make a tiny adjustment to council tax bills and sack all the gimps wandering around our streets issuing tickets. We'll all pay slightly more on CT and the world will be a nicer place.
Don't forget some of the biggest losers since these morons in the council decided to get their noses in the car-fleecing trough are small retailers who pay a fortune to the business rates scam.
Private parking companies are only here because of the squeeze.
Although I don't have the raw evidence at hand, I am sure I've seen it on various news related programs that one main reason for why town centres up and down the UK are falling on their ar$e is because of the big reduction in convenient urban parking and the trade that is lost because of it.
If the councils could reverse their programs of forcing traffic out of centres and ever increasing parking restrictions then private land owners would see a reduction in 'offences' on their land.
Like you say the only reason private land owners get peeved off and resort to PPCs is due to the numbers/frequency of motorists causing problems on their land - which would most likely be eliminated if there were much more convenient and free parking available.
The council should never have a model whereby fining motorists is part of their annual costings for planning future budgets etc. .. so funding the shortfall should not be a valid question.
Also there is a lot of land within urban areas that is either not used or could be easily converted to free parking areas for minimum cost to the public.
Private car/vehicle ownership is one of the main factors in supporting our fluid economy (read from a business magazine recently), and it seems like as car ownership becomes more easy (arguably) for the population to attain and the benefits of that ownership could go towards building a stronger economy, it seems that the councils/government are wishing to deter the trend in favour of green targets set by Brussels and a lack of funding to improve roads in favour of trying to make old infrastructure fit new traffic volumes.
I'm sure people holding the opposite view to the above may point out specific examples whereby it won't work, but in general I think councils are taking things in the wrong direction and are a root cause for why PPCs have increased in number and can make profits from the situation at the expense of daily necessity in many cases.
I stopped in a little town called Thirsk a year or so ago for lunch and walked up to the pay and display meter in the town square to pay to park with a handful of coins in my hand. Long story short.. free for the first hour, then 60p for up to 2 hours and only then did it go up. So, they have free parking for people going shopping, or 60p for a bit longer but no shop owners etc parking right outside using up customer/tourist parking spots. Seemed exactly how these things should be run to me.
supermono said:
Sorry for being unclear. I'm not suggesting providing any additional parking just not charging people to use what's there. It may cost slightly more in CT but savings made sacking a load of traffic wardens and processing clarks administering the collection of fees and fines. Sure keep double yellows where necessary and have a small team of folks making sure traffic is moving.
Question, where do all the shoppers park when the bays are full of local residents / commuters / town centre works etc.?Should we really be encouraging more traffic into town centres, particularly old / historic ones? Or should we be looking to increase alternatives like P&R for example
supermono said:
All this selfish parking / ripoff private companies profiteering etc. If every council stopped making a profit out of parking and instead provided ample free on and off road parking in our towns the problem would disappear.
As regards paying for it, make a tiny adjustment to council tax bills and sack all the gimps wandering around our streets issuing tickets. We'll all pay slightly more on CT and the world will be a nicer place.
Don't forget some of the biggest losers since these morons in the council decided to get their noses in the car-fleecing trough are small retailers who pay a fortune to the business rates scam.
Private parking companies are only here because of the squeeze.
you have two problems - there is not enough space in the areas people wish to park, free or notAs regards paying for it, make a tiny adjustment to council tax bills and sack all the gimps wandering around our streets issuing tickets. We'll all pay slightly more on CT and the world will be a nicer place.
Don't forget some of the biggest losers since these morons in the council decided to get their noses in the car-fleecing trough are small retailers who pay a fortune to the business rates scam.
Private parking companies are only here because of the squeeze.
second, there are still those who believe they can abandon their cars regardless of who it affects. there may be a car park ~2 minutes walk away, but its far easier to stick two wheels on the kerb - "because i'm only stopping for a moment"
AA999 said:
one main reason for why town centres up and down the UK are falling on their ar$e is because of the big reduction in convenient urban parking and the trade that is lost because of it.
I agree, but convenient doesn't always mean free. I'd completely stop going into our local town if parking became free, simply because I wouldn't be able to find somewhere to park. On the other hand, my wife would probably be delighted because when she drives in, at 6:45am, she'd have the pick of parking places and no longer have to worry about paying £5 to park at the railway station for the day, thereby blocking a parking place for the entire day that could otherwise have been used by a dozen or so shoppers.In the early '60s the Beatles recorded a song called, "Lovely Rita Meter Maid". It referred to the very first incarnation of a traffic warden, i.e. women in smart uniforms patrolling the streets of London issuing tickets to drivers who were over their time on a meter.
These meters were the brainchild of some jobsworth in the London Council and it was simply a way of extracting more money from the motorist for parking at the side of the road. This concept has to be fully understood for the iniquitous practice that it is. This is not the provision of a car park or proper safe parking facilities. This is simply stopping at the side of the road with your vehicle responsibly positioned so as not to create a hazard to others and having to pay to do so. You have, of course, already paid for the right to use the highway through your road tax and the plethera of other taxes, i.e. fuel duty, company car tax, VAT, VAT on fuel duty, etc. The council provide absolutely nothing other than the equipment they need to fine you.
Whilst this system has blossomed into the utter, complete chaotic shambles we have now, we have had to suffer a whole raft of persecution over the years for daring to stop safely at the side of the road in the form of wheel clamps, massively increased penalties, vehicle removal and even crushing, and now finally legalised thugs in the form of private companies who count their profits in the millions.
Throughout this period however what has been almost totally neglected, especially now, is the motorist who will leave their vehicle in the most appalling positions, on many occasions dangerously so, the idiots in public car parks such as supermarkets who deliberately park on double yellow lines, disabled bays or anywhere they can to get as near to the entrance as possible because they can't get off their fat arses and walk a few yards; or they are determined to let the neighbourhood know they have this years BMW or whatever.
People who park on the wrong side of the road facing into oncoming traffic with their headlights on blinding every oncoming driver; the very same type who pull up suddenly at the side of the road and throw their door open into the path of an oncoming vehicle.
Parking for the authorities has developed into a huge revenue stream. It is totally devoid of the concept of enforcing regulation against those who would abandon vehicles dangerously. In other words it has nothing to do with safety or alleviating congestion, but everything to do with making money.
I have absolutely no problem with booking idiots for dangerous parking. I am absolutely opposed to charging for parking at the roadside.
J
These meters were the brainchild of some jobsworth in the London Council and it was simply a way of extracting more money from the motorist for parking at the side of the road. This concept has to be fully understood for the iniquitous practice that it is. This is not the provision of a car park or proper safe parking facilities. This is simply stopping at the side of the road with your vehicle responsibly positioned so as not to create a hazard to others and having to pay to do so. You have, of course, already paid for the right to use the highway through your road tax and the plethera of other taxes, i.e. fuel duty, company car tax, VAT, VAT on fuel duty, etc. The council provide absolutely nothing other than the equipment they need to fine you.
Whilst this system has blossomed into the utter, complete chaotic shambles we have now, we have had to suffer a whole raft of persecution over the years for daring to stop safely at the side of the road in the form of wheel clamps, massively increased penalties, vehicle removal and even crushing, and now finally legalised thugs in the form of private companies who count their profits in the millions.
Throughout this period however what has been almost totally neglected, especially now, is the motorist who will leave their vehicle in the most appalling positions, on many occasions dangerously so, the idiots in public car parks such as supermarkets who deliberately park on double yellow lines, disabled bays or anywhere they can to get as near to the entrance as possible because they can't get off their fat arses and walk a few yards; or they are determined to let the neighbourhood know they have this years BMW or whatever.
People who park on the wrong side of the road facing into oncoming traffic with their headlights on blinding every oncoming driver; the very same type who pull up suddenly at the side of the road and throw their door open into the path of an oncoming vehicle.
Parking for the authorities has developed into a huge revenue stream. It is totally devoid of the concept of enforcing regulation against those who would abandon vehicles dangerously. In other words it has nothing to do with safety or alleviating congestion, but everything to do with making money.
I have absolutely no problem with booking idiots for dangerous parking. I am absolutely opposed to charging for parking at the roadside.
J
jith said:
I have absolutely no problem with booking idiots for dangerous parking. I am absolutely opposed to charging for parking at the roadside.
What gives you the right to abandon a large lump of metal on the public highway, taking up space that could otherwise be used for getting people from A to B? If I need a permit to leave a skip in the road, why shouldn't I need one to leave a car there?I'd be in favour of the Japanese system - if you don't have a space to store it in then you are only allowed a very small car.
1. How else do we ration a scarce resource?
2. How else do we manage a scarce resource where a large minority of the users have shown a continuing disregard for anything but their own needs and convenience?
Parking is blamed for the death of town centres but it is far more complicated than that. My local town centre has three distinct areas in various states of apparent commercial success. All are very well served for parking at a variety of costs, varying from costly NHS parking to chargable multi storey to free weekend parking in the council offices and free on street short stay all week. The worst area is around the free parking, although both of the multistorey supported shopping areas are also poor performers, with units empty for years, many charity shops and other low margin shops.
Parking has got dot one to do with this town centre's performance and everything to do with the retailler's buisness models failure to move with the times. Blaming parking costs enables the retaillers to make it someone else's problem in their mind, meaning that if they were only to get the passing traffic back all would be well. Free, or even uncontrolled parking is not going to change the fact that the small town centre Next will not have the tshirt in my size, that Waterstone's don't stock the books I want, or that HMV want to charge me the cost of a month's Spotify or Netflix subscription for one CD or DVD.
If town centre retaillers want my business then add some value. John Lewis do this with touch & feeel before order, Next do it with overnight delivery to store so what are the rest of them going to do? They have to change or they will die, they cannot return to a time of old maids cycling to evensong past the cricekt team on the village green.
2. How else do we manage a scarce resource where a large minority of the users have shown a continuing disregard for anything but their own needs and convenience?
Parking is blamed for the death of town centres but it is far more complicated than that. My local town centre has three distinct areas in various states of apparent commercial success. All are very well served for parking at a variety of costs, varying from costly NHS parking to chargable multi storey to free weekend parking in the council offices and free on street short stay all week. The worst area is around the free parking, although both of the multistorey supported shopping areas are also poor performers, with units empty for years, many charity shops and other low margin shops.
Parking has got dot one to do with this town centre's performance and everything to do with the retailler's buisness models failure to move with the times. Blaming parking costs enables the retaillers to make it someone else's problem in their mind, meaning that if they were only to get the passing traffic back all would be well. Free, or even uncontrolled parking is not going to change the fact that the small town centre Next will not have the tshirt in my size, that Waterstone's don't stock the books I want, or that HMV want to charge me the cost of a month's Spotify or Netflix subscription for one CD or DVD.
If town centre retaillers want my business then add some value. John Lewis do this with touch & feeel before order, Next do it with overnight delivery to store so what are the rest of them going to do? They have to change or they will die, they cannot return to a time of old maids cycling to evensong past the cricekt team on the village green.
I used to live in Borehamwood until a couple of months ago and the council there have free parking. You just need to get a ticket from the machine as it's free for the first hour, then pennies if you want to stay longer.
They never promoted it though so many visitors, and indeed residents assume it was expensive pay n display. It's something they should be shouting about!
I now live in East Central London and my local high street is £4 an hour pay n display!
They never promoted it though so many visitors, and indeed residents assume it was expensive pay n display. It's something they should be shouting about!
I now live in East Central London and my local high street is £4 an hour pay n display!
Dammit said:
How would you provide ample parking? In many places (Winchester springs to mind here) you would need to bulldoze the town centre to provide enough space for all the people to park in order to visit the town centre.
I live 4 miles away from the middle of Winchester. Apart from for a few evening meals, I haven't been into the city for over two years. The council plan is working, I've stopped driving into Winchester to shop.I know they really want me to use public transport but what they provide to the nearby villages is woeful. It's easier (and often quicker) for me to drive to Basingstoke 20 miles away. And as time goes by, more and more of my shopping is done on-line anyway.
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