Shooting dog on farmland
Discussion
I don't want to post this in the pets section as will probably get emotional answers where i need an non bias opinion. Im devastated about the killing of my dog so will try not to get emotional in this post. All i want is to know if the shooting was lawful.
Right quick version is. We live in the middle of farmland and have fields with livestock kept on them around the house. My dog goes onto the farmers land and starts worrying the livestock. The dog notices the farmer so stops worrying the livestock and starts running home. The dog has traveled around 15-20meters and this is when the farmer shoots and kills my dog.
What are the legality of shooting a dog? I have informed the police who have checked the licence and legality of the firearm this is ok. As far as i can tell with regards to the law, the shooting of my property means that i am entitled to compensation because I believe that my dog had stopped worrying the sheep and posed no threat to his livestock as it was running home.
The farmers story doesent quite add up so this is why im asking about the legality of the shooting.
Right quick version is. We live in the middle of farmland and have fields with livestock kept on them around the house. My dog goes onto the farmers land and starts worrying the livestock. The dog notices the farmer so stops worrying the livestock and starts running home. The dog has traveled around 15-20meters and this is when the farmer shoots and kills my dog.
What are the legality of shooting a dog? I have informed the police who have checked the licence and legality of the firearm this is ok. As far as i can tell with regards to the law, the shooting of my property means that i am entitled to compensation because I believe that my dog had stopped worrying the sheep and posed no threat to his livestock as it was running home.
The farmers story doesent quite add up so this is why im asking about the legality of the shooting.
01samuelr said:
As far as i can tell with regards to the law, the shooting of my property means that i am entitled to compensation because I believe that my dog had stopped worrying the sheep and posed no threat to his livestock as it was running home.
I've not looked at the Animals Act for years but it should be on the net to look at in detail if you wish, as it's relevant here.However, IIRC to provide a defence the landowner must believe that their actions were the only reasonable method of preventing the dog worrying their livestock. Also IIRC, the belief of the landowner hold sway, so if he were to claim in the circumstances that the situation presented himself to have the genuine belief he needed to act, this is a defence.
That will of course come down to the facts, which sadly, would be your word against his. There's also the matter where if I remember correctly you could be prosecuted for allowing your dog to be out of control on farmland with animals.
Edited by JustinP1 on Friday 1st May 01:04
JustinP1 said:
I've not looked at the Animals Act for years but it should be on the net to look at in detail if you wish, as it's relevant here.
However, IIRC to provide a defence the landowner must believe that their actions were the only reasonable method of preventing the dog worrying their livestock. Also IIRC, the belief of the landowner hold sway, so if he were to claim in the circumstances that the situation presented himself to have the genuine belief he needed to act, this is a defence.
That will of course come down to the facts, which sadly, would be your word against his. There's also the matter where if I remember correctly you could be prosecuted for allowing your dog to be out of control on farmland with animals.
Shooting dogs found worrying livestockHowever, IIRC to provide a defence the landowner must believe that their actions were the only reasonable method of preventing the dog worrying their livestock. Also IIRC, the belief of the landowner hold sway, so if he were to claim in the circumstances that the situation presented himself to have the genuine belief he needed to act, this is a defence.
That will of course come down to the facts, which sadly, would be your word against his. There's also the matter where if I remember correctly you could be prosecuted for allowing your dog to be out of control on farmland with animals.
Edited by JustinP1 on Friday 1st May 01:04
Shooting a dog is permissible but potentially risky. You can shoot a dog if:
the dog is worrying, or is about to worry, the livestock and shooting it is the only way to stop it; or
the dog has been worrying livestock, has not left the vicinity, and is not under anyone’s control and there are no practical means of establishing who owns it.
Its the last bit that has been bugging me. The dog was leaving the vicinity and the farmer knows its my dog.
If I were the farmer, I'd be less worried about the repercussions of the law and more worried about upcoming storm of mayhem coming from a disgruntled dog owner...
At the very least you have to report what happened - at the very least he will get a visit from the Police to check everything is in-order. If he's 100% above board with his weapon-registration, storage, licenses etc. then maybe nothing else will happen - he'll also be THE only landowner in the whole country who is tho so rain on his parade...
At the very least you have to report what happened - at the very least he will get a visit from the Police to check everything is in-order. If he's 100% above board with his weapon-registration, storage, licenses etc. then maybe nothing else will happen - he'll also be THE only landowner in the whole country who is tho so rain on his parade...
Edited by 405dogvan on Friday 1st May 02:26
01samuelr said:
Shooting dogs found worrying livestock
Shooting a dog is permissible but potentially risky. You can shoot a dog if:
the dog is worrying, or is about to worry, the livestock and shooting it is the only way to stop it; or
the dog has been worrying livestock, has not left the vicinity, and is not under anyone’s control and there are no practical means of establishing who owns it.
Its the last bit that has been bugging me. The dog was leaving the vicinity and the farmer knows its my dog.
You said the dog had only gone a short distance at a run so it seems the farmer shot the dog within a few seconds of it worrying the livestock. Sounds to me like he was within his rights. Was this the only time your dog has done this? I'm sorry for the dog, but it's your fault and you should make peace with the farmer. While others may viscerally advocate revenge this is quite wrong and illegal. Don't make a bad situation worse...Shooting a dog is permissible but potentially risky. You can shoot a dog if:
the dog is worrying, or is about to worry, the livestock and shooting it is the only way to stop it; or
the dog has been worrying livestock, has not left the vicinity, and is not under anyone’s control and there are no practical means of establishing who owns it.
Its the last bit that has been bugging me. The dog was leaving the vicinity and the farmer knows its my dog.
01samuelr said:
My dog goes onto the farmers land and starts worrying the livestock. The dog notices the farmer so stops worrying the livestock and starts running home. The dog has traveled around 15-20meters and this is when the farmer shoots and kills my dog.
That is a very specific description of events.Did you or someone else witness it or is that as the farmer described it?
Was this the first livestock worrying incident?
PurpleMoonlight said:
That is a very specific description of events.
Did you or someone else witness it or is that as the farmer described it?
Was this the first livestock worrying incident?
This is what the farmer said happened. It was not the first incident but from reading up it seems that you are not alowed to shoot a dog when it is no longer a threat on the pretence that it would come back.Did you or someone else witness it or is that as the farmer described it?
Was this the first livestock worrying incident?
Having slept on it a few things don't add up. His story of the dog running home then shooting it. When i went to retrieve my dog he said you might want to go get a car as she is heavy but I carried my dog home and she was heavy. Also the dog was killed with one shot and died instantly but on retrieving the dog you would expect her to be facing my house as she was running away to the left but she was facing his house to the right. Plus my father heard the gunshot and said it sounded a lot closer than where we found her. All of this leads me to believe that she was not killed where he said she was and was moved to the position we found her to make it look like he had a reason to shoot her.
Your fault for letting your dog out on more than one occasion to worry the farmers livestock.
If he has cattle your dog needs to be under control ( mine are trained to the whistle so are under control with that) but if he has sheep the dog must be on a lead.
If you had been with your dog and hadn't let it out on its own you could have maybe rubbished the farmers story but tats irrelevant really as your dog was out on its own, and with your own admission had worried his sheep before.
What if he never shot it and the following day you let it out to yet again get to his livestock?
If he has cattle your dog needs to be under control ( mine are trained to the whistle so are under control with that) but if he has sheep the dog must be on a lead.
If you had been with your dog and hadn't let it out on its own you could have maybe rubbished the farmers story but tats irrelevant really as your dog was out on its own, and with your own admission had worried his sheep before.
What if he never shot it and the following day you let it out to yet again get to his livestock?
01samuelr said:
This is what the farmer said happened. It was not the first incident but from reading up it seems that you are not alowed to shoot a dog when it is no longer a threat on the pretence that it would come back.
Having slept on it a few things don't add up. His story of the dog running home then shooting it. When i went to retrieve my dog he said you might want to go get a car as she is heavy but I carried my dog home and she was heavy. Also the dog was killed with one shot and died instantly but on retrieving the dog you would expect her to be facing my house as she was running away to the left but she was facing his house to the right. Plus my father heard the gunshot and said it sounded a lot closer than where we found her. All of this leads me to believe that she was not killed where he said she was and was moved to the position we found her to make it look like he had a reason to shoot her.
The police are not going to undertake a forensic analysis of a dog shooting by a farmer when the dog was clearly on the loose with no owner or witness present.Having slept on it a few things don't add up. His story of the dog running home then shooting it. When i went to retrieve my dog he said you might want to go get a car as she is heavy but I carried my dog home and she was heavy. Also the dog was killed with one shot and died instantly but on retrieving the dog you would expect her to be facing my house as she was running away to the left but she was facing his house to the right. Plus my father heard the gunshot and said it sounded a lot closer than where we found her. All of this leads me to believe that she was not killed where he said she was and was moved to the position we found her to make it look like he had a reason to shoot her.
It is tragic your dog has died, but you must bear the majority of the responsibility especially as it wasn't the first incident.
I have no idea of the legalities, being a cat owning city dweller, but if it's revenge you're after, the local press, twitter and facebook love a good dog murdering story.
There will be lots of animal lovers locally who will be furious, even if he was within his rights, and life could become quite unpleasant for him if you advertise what has happened.
I'm not even saying that's the right thing to do, but it's a route that's open to you should you choose it.
There will be lots of animal lovers locally who will be furious, even if he was within his rights, and life could become quite unpleasant for him if you advertise what has happened.
I'm not even saying that's the right thing to do, but it's a route that's open to you should you choose it.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I have no idea of the legalities, being a cat owning city dweller, but if it's revenge you're after, the local press, twitter and facebook love a good dog murdering story.
There will be lots of animal lovers locally who will be furious, even if he was within his rights, and life could become quite unpleasant for him if you advertise what has happened.
I'm not even saying that's the right thing to do, but it's a route that's open to you should you choose it.
This is why I didn't post it in the pets section. My dog is dead, nothing i do will change that. If what the farmer has done is 100% legal and by the book then I can accept that and will hold no grudge on him. But if it was not 100% to the law then I will make his life as awkward as possible and thats why i started this thread There will be lots of animal lovers locally who will be furious, even if he was within his rights, and life could become quite unpleasant for him if you advertise what has happened.
I'm not even saying that's the right thing to do, but it's a route that's open to you should you choose it.
01samuelr said:
This is what the farmer said happened. It was not the first incident but from reading up it seems that you are not alowed to shoot a dog when it is no longer a threat on the pretence that it would come back.
Having slept on it a few things don't add up. His story of the dog running home then shooting it. When i went to retrieve my dog he said you might want to go get a car as she is heavy but I carried my dog home and she was heavy. Also the dog was killed with one shot and died instantly but on retrieving the dog you would expect her to be facing my house as she was running away to the left but she was facing his house to the right. Plus my father heard the gunshot and said it sounded a lot closer than where we found her. All of this leads me to believe that she was not killed where he said she was and was moved to the position we found her to make it look like he had a reason to shoot her.
If the farmer was going to make up a story he would claim your dog was running towards the sheep, not away from them. On the balance of probability, based upon what you have said, his story is believable.Having slept on it a few things don't add up. His story of the dog running home then shooting it. When i went to retrieve my dog he said you might want to go get a car as she is heavy but I carried my dog home and she was heavy. Also the dog was killed with one shot and died instantly but on retrieving the dog you would expect her to be facing my house as she was running away to the left but she was facing his house to the right. Plus my father heard the gunshot and said it sounded a lot closer than where we found her. All of this leads me to believe that she was not killed where he said she was and was moved to the position we found her to make it look like he had a reason to shoot her.
Whatever the minutiae of the situation, your dog was out of control amongst sheep. It got shot. However far you are prepared to pursue this you'll need to persuade someone that your dog, loose amongst or near sheep, with previous for the same, didn't require shooting. Good luck with that.
If I were you I'd bury your dog, buy a new one and keep it under control.
For the record: I live in farmland, own a dog and a shotgun, dislike mardy farmers and have caught my own dog worrying sheep. On the last point, the little sod wished the farmer had got to him first and hasn't done it again. But if he does and he gets shot I won't be surprised or offended.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I have no idea of the legalities, being a cat owning city dweller, but if it's revenge you're after, the local press, twitter and facebook love a good dog murdering story.
There will be lots of animal lovers locally who will be furious, even if he was within his rights, and life could become quite unpleasant for him if you advertise what has happened.
I'm not even saying that's the right thing to do, but it's a route that's open to you should you choose it.
Nasty piece of work, aren't you.There will be lots of animal lovers locally who will be furious, even if he was within his rights, and life could become quite unpleasant for him if you advertise what has happened.
I'm not even saying that's the right thing to do, but it's a route that's open to you should you choose it.
I'm very sorry to learn what you are going through.
It does take time to go and get a gun and then you have the issue that you cannot actually use it while the offending animal is in amongst the stock. Logically, as he knew the dog you would expect a shot in the air to get the dog away and then battering your door down to give you the dressing down of your life for your reckless irresponsibility and the endangering of another person's livlihood.
I don't think you can get all CSI about this and my gut feeling is that maybe your dog had been out before doing this and that you'd had the opportunity to retrain the animal and the farmer just decided to put the issue to bed the simplest way as you weren't taking responsibility?
I'm really sorry for what happens and many farmers are pretty harsh and somewhat 'Deliverance' but unless he's a proper
then he probably did the right thing sadly.
It does take time to go and get a gun and then you have the issue that you cannot actually use it while the offending animal is in amongst the stock. Logically, as he knew the dog you would expect a shot in the air to get the dog away and then battering your door down to give you the dressing down of your life for your reckless irresponsibility and the endangering of another person's livlihood.
I don't think you can get all CSI about this and my gut feeling is that maybe your dog had been out before doing this and that you'd had the opportunity to retrain the animal and the farmer just decided to put the issue to bed the simplest way as you weren't taking responsibility?
I'm really sorry for what happens and many farmers are pretty harsh and somewhat 'Deliverance' but unless he's a proper
then he probably did the right thing sadly. 405dogvan said:
If [the farmer] is 100% above board with his weapon-registration, storage, licenses etc. then maybe nothing else will happen - he'll also be THE only landowner in the whole country who is tho so rain on his parade...
Tosh. Edited by 405dogvan on Friday 1st May 02:26
Having recently had an inspection by a new Firearms Licensing Manager, determined to make a name for himself, I can assure you that my firearms ownership is entirely ccmpliant with the law (and was prior to the inspection). The same goes for anyone else who's had an inspection in our county of late.
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