Shooting dog on farmland

[TwigtheWonderkid]

tex200 said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I have no idea...

So why reply suggesting how to make the farmer's life difficult?

Farmer has done nothing illegal here.

For the record - I am an animal lover.

Keep your hair on.

I wasn't suggesting he had done anything illegal. If you read my post, I say I as much. And indeed you quoted it!
Even if he was entitled to shoot the dog, that doesn't mean he had to. If what the OP says is true, it seems an OTT reaction. Remember the debate over the sinking of the Belgrano?
I was giving an option on the OP should he want revenge. I said in my post that I wasn't suggesting it was the right thing to do. OP has since confirmed he doesn't want revenge, which is great. So he can ignore that suggestion.

[paintman]

Have a read of this. There are a number of areas of legislation involved & this might make it a little clearer for you.
I can see that one of the issues is that you admit the dog has previous for it & you have failed to take proper measures to prevent re-occurrence.
http://www.nationalsheep.org.uk/dog-owners

[DonkeyApple]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

tex200 said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I have no idea...

So why reply suggesting how to make the farmer's life difficult?

Farmer has done nothing illegal here.

For the record - I am an animal lover.

Keep your hair on.

I wasn't suggesting he had done anything illegal. If you read my post, I say I as much. And indeed you quoted it!
Even if he was entitled to shoot the dog, that doesn't mean he had to. If what the OP says is true, it seems an OTT reaction. Remember the debate over the sinking of the Belgrano?
I was giving an option on the OP should he want revenge. I said in my post that I wasn't suggesting it was the right thing to do. OP has since confirmed he doesn't want revenge, which is great. So he can ignore that suggestion.

But the type of behaviour that you were 'educating' the OP on is truly horrific, unpleasant and sadly, seemingly part of modern Britain. It was an awful post frankly.

[northwest monkey]

There was a TV programme recently where this happened - 3 dogs escaping from a garden onto farmland & harassing the livestock (IIRC it killed a couple of birds). The farmer shot and killed all 3 dogs & the woman who owned the dog was outraged & reported it to the Police. They visited the farmer & presumably checked out his licenses etc, but that was it.

Think it was a "Neighbours from Hell" type programme on C5 - might be worth a watch.

[herewego]

If the dog started to run when he saw the farmer then it appears the farmer has warned the dog off previously, maybe several times. The farmer can't be expected to spend day and night warding off a stray dog.

[KrazyIvan]

Sorry you lost your dog, I hope your more careful in the future. We live in the country among a lot of fields full of lambs, I'd expect nothing less from the local farmers if my dogs kept going in their fields.

There are too many poor dog owners giving the rest of us a bad name.

[sunbeam alpine]

01samuelr said:

This is why I didn't post it in the pets section. My dog is dead, nothing i do will change that. If what the farmer has done is 100% legal and by the book then I can accept that and will hold no grudge on him. But if it was not 100% to the law then I will make his life as awkward as possible and thats why i started this thread

You admit your dog was worrying sheep, and that.it wasn't the first time. The link posted above shows clearly that you have committed an offence by doing this.

In your place, instead of looking.to make the farmer's life hard, I'd be hoping that he doesn't have problems with the sheep over the next few days, ask his vet to document that they were as a result of your dog's actions, and start making your life awkward instead. That is what I would be doing if I heard you were trying to stir up trouble.

[CarAbuser]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I have no idea of the legalities, being a cat owning city dweller, but if it's revenge you're after, the local press, twitter and facebook love a good dog murdering story.

There will be lots of animal lovers locally who will be furious, even if he was within his rights, and life could become quite unpleasant for him if you advertise what has happened.

I'm not even saying that's the right thing to do, but it's a route that's open to you should you choose it.

What a cowardly approach. Man shoots your dog so you go home and post nasty things about him on the internet in the hope that other people will do cowardly things on your behalf?

It's a good job the OP seems to have some common sense. I suppose that's why he asked here rather than checking for opinions in the animal section.

[Ru78]

Really sorry for you and your dog.

But at the end of the day the farmer has a livelihood to protect, losses from sheep killing lambs and ewes are horrific and seriously disheartening for people who spend their lives nurturing them, farmers have just spent the last month or 2 keeping watch over laming ewes, making sure that as many as they can survive in good health...

A dog worrying sheep in lamb often causes abortions, a dog amongst lambs can kill or fatally injure them. Losses that go unseen by the offender,but are felt heavily by the farmers affected. Very few offenders offer to pay for the damage done by their dogs or even comprehend that the animals are not free but have a real value and a serious impact on the ability of the farmer to survive... quiet apart from the fact that a dismembered sheep is a horrible thing to have to deal with.

Those suggesting revenge should think very hard about how they would feel if someone came into their home and place of business and allowed their dogs to threaten all of that.

On a final note, most farmers have guns stored in accordance with the law, and are inspected and held to it. They also get no pleasure from these kind of events, and will feel for both you and your dog, although are unlikely to show it to you.

Instead of asking if what he has done is legal I'm afraid you should look at the animal control regulations that you have not managed to meet, I'm sure by accident. You should also ask the farmer if you owe him for the damage done to his sheep.

Once again very sorry for what you are going through, I'm sure it is horrendous (I have both dogs and sheep).
Deep breath, and move forward.
Ru

[Dan_The_Man]

Take a bottle of scotch round for the farmer with an apology, he's probably just as upset as you.

[OscarIndia]

Eleven said:

405dogvan said:

If [the farmer] is 100% above board with his weapon-registration, storage, licenses etc. then maybe nothing else will happen - he'll also be THE only landowner in the whole country who is tho so rain on his parade...

Edited by 405dogvan on Friday 1st May 02:26

Tosh.

Having recently had an inspection by a new Firearms Licensing Manager, determined to make a name for himself, I can assure you that my firearms ownership is entirely ccmpliant with the law (and was prior to the inspection). The same goes for anyone else who's had an inspection in our county of late.

Just to disprove this ridiculous theory I have also just had my firearms license renewed. Everything above board and just as they wanted it.

If your dog had a history of worrying sheep then unfortunately there is nothing you can do. My Labrador used to like playing with sheep, as they weren't mine I took it upon myself to train him not to. He never did again.

My brothers Jack Russell killed a lamb, luckily it was one of ours so got a reprieve. The third time it did it my Father had it shot. Our sheep, no issues with the farmer, but it had got the taste and nothing we could do would stop it.

[Martin4x4]

You are on a hiding to nothing, the law is an ass on this subject.

The farmer only needs to claim he has a 'belief' your animal was a risk to his livestock.

He doesn't need any evidence and you need to prove that 'belief' was unfounded.

Edited by Martin4x4 on Friday 1st May 09:59

[Durzel]

01samuelr said:

But if it was not 100% to the law then I will make his life as awkward as possible and thats why i started this thread

It sounds like you've already been doing this, by letting your dog interfere with his business on more than one occasion.

Sorry for your loss but I don't understand how you think it's a disproportionate response when by your own admission you don't seem to have cared to keep control of your dog.

I'd like to believe that the farmer would not have enjoyed shooting your dog, and probably felt that you were unwilling or unable to control your pet, given it had happened at least twice before.

Think you need to shoulder the lion share of responsibility on this one. If it had been the first time your dog had been involved then one could argue you didn't know the risks, but you know it's happened before and didn't care enough to stop it happening again.

[Martin4x4]

Was there any evidence your dog had harmed any sheep?

Also what breed was your dog?

Agree with idea of taking this to the media, new/old/social.

The law need changing on this, farmer killing dogs willy nilly get very common every spring.

[R8Steve]

Dan_The_Man said:

Take a bottle of scotch round for the farmer with an apology, he's probably just as upset as you.

If someone killed your dog you would take them a bottle of scotch? Wow.

[bobtail4x4]

The dog only needs to be in the same field, not even chasing the livestock to be worrying them,

[73mark]

Keep dog on lead or go somewhere other than farmland to walk the dog.
You know farmers have the right to shoot dogs on their land so why risk it.
Farmers done nothing wrong imo.

[superlightr]

01samuelr said:

I don't want to post this in the pets section as will probably get emotional answers where i need an non bias opinion. Im devastated about the killing of my dog so will try not to get emotional in this post. All i want is to know if the shooting was lawful.

Right quick version is. We live in the middle of farmland and have fields with livestock kept on them around the house. My dog goes onto the farmers land and starts worrying the livestock. The dog notices the farmer so stops worrying the livestock and starts running home. The dog has traveled around 15-20meters and this is when the farmer shoots and kills my dog.

What are the legality of shooting a dog? I have informed the police who have checked the license and legality of the firearm this is ok. As far as i can tell with regards to the law, the shooting of my property means that i am entitled to compensation because I believe that my dog had stopped worrying the sheep and posed no threat to his livestock as it was running home.

The farmers story doesent quite add up so this is why im asking about the legality of the shooting.

Sorry to hear about the death of your dog. Sincerely I am, and from a clear pov (dog owner and worked on a farm) I post the following.

What sort of livestock was it worring? Sheep, cattle, other?

Being 15-20 m away doesnt mean its not still involved in the worrying as another poster has said the Belgrano was not heading towards the FI but was a threat.
Your dog was uncontrolled. You state it had been worrying animals in the past and you wernt present when it 'escaped' this time.
Still being near to the animals it was/had been worrying is still a threat in my view.

What sort of dog did you have? if it was a chiwawa then being -15 - 20m may take it ages to travel that distance but also a sheep would most likely kill it anyway or run away ! If you had a big feck off Alsatian then its more of a threat clearly and could travel 15-20 min a few seconds, the sheep could not run away.


You dont mention what type of dog it was? why not? Gun shots are very hard to pin point, also which way the dog was pointing when it died is also not really relevant I would suggest ( animals can flip/spin when shot) Im sure like most posteres here say if they thought you had been hard done by then we would say but I think it tragic but not unreasonable form the info you have given so far as to what happened.

Again it is always say to lose a pet and I feel for you that its happened in such a tragic way.

What dog was it? What animals was it worrying?

Edited by superlightr on Friday 1st May 10:14

Edited by superlightr on Friday 1st May 10:17

[01samuelr]

I have lived at the property for 24 years and my grandfather was a farmer so completely understand the need to protect ones source of income.

As i have said previously. If the actions taken by the farmer were 100% legal then I have no grievance with the farmer, and take full responsibility of the actions that my dog had on his livelihood and have done in the past by covering the vetinary fees and compensating the farmer for the loss of his stock.

All i wanted, was to make sure that what was done was 10/10 legal, which it seems that it is. If it wasn't then I like every other person would want compensation for the unnecessary loss of a family pet

[DonkeyApple]

Martin4x4 said:

You are on a hiding to nothing, the law is an ass on this subject.

The farmer only needs to state he has a 'belief' your animal was a risk to his livestock.

He doesn't need any evidence and you need to prove that 'belief' was unfounded.

I don't believe the law is an ass in this instance.

In this case the law is rightly protecting a man and his family's livlihood from reckless endangerment.

Everyone knows you don't allow your dog to be a problem for livestock and everyone who lives near farms go to great lengths to train their dogs to not be an issue and also ensure they remain within the confines of their property.

This is a very, very unfortunate event that was 100% the result of repeated poor pet management. Sad but true. And it is 100% correct that the law should protect innocents from the actions or lack of actions of others.