Shooting dog on farmland
Discussion
Jasandjules said:
If you slit a dog's throat you will find yourself prosecuted for cruelty to animals rather quickly.
And no, no you may shoot or kill a dog if you feel under threat. At least not in the UK you can't.
I checked with the British Association for Conservation and Shooting and Thames Valley Police headquarters at Kidlington.And no, no you may shoot or kill a dog if you feel under threat. At least not in the UK you can't.
Jasandjules said:
Jazzman1960 said:
The farmer is in the right 100%.
If a dog is tresspassing on private land with or without it's owner and a hunter is being threatened by a dog or dogs as was in my case, and you are fearfull of injury from the said dogs, you may deal with them in any safe way, either by slitting their throats if you are ok with getting up close and personal with an attacking dog or by shooting it when they get close. The owner would also be liable to prossicution under the dangerous dogs act.
A dog must be on a leash or at heal when on both public or when tresspassing on private land, however on private land you may encounter hunters.
If you slit a dog's throat you will find yourself prosecuted for cruelty to animals rather quickly.If a dog is tresspassing on private land with or without it's owner and a hunter is being threatened by a dog or dogs as was in my case, and you are fearfull of injury from the said dogs, you may deal with them in any safe way, either by slitting their throats if you are ok with getting up close and personal with an attacking dog or by shooting it when they get close. The owner would also be liable to prossicution under the dangerous dogs act.
A dog must be on a leash or at heal when on both public or when tresspassing on private land, however on private land you may encounter hunters.
And no, no you may shoot or kill a dog if you feel under threat. At least not in the UK you can't.
Jazzman1960 said:
Jasandjules said:
Jazzman1960 said:
The farmer is in the right 100%.
If a dog is tresspassing on private land with or without it's owner and a hunter is being threatened by a dog or dogs as was in my case, and you are fearfull of injury from the said dogs, you may deal with them in any safe way, either by slitting their throats if you are ok with getting up close and personal with an attacking dog or by shooting it when they get close. The owner would also be liable to prossicution under the dangerous dogs act.
A dog must be on a leash or at heal when on both public or when tresspassing on private land, however on private land you may encounter hunters.
If you slit a dog's throat you will find yourself prosecuted for cruelty to animals rather quickly.If a dog is tresspassing on private land with or without it's owner and a hunter is being threatened by a dog or dogs as was in my case, and you are fearfull of injury from the said dogs, you may deal with them in any safe way, either by slitting their throats if you are ok with getting up close and personal with an attacking dog or by shooting it when they get close. The owner would also be liable to prossicution under the dangerous dogs act.
A dog must be on a leash or at heal when on both public or when tresspassing on private land, however on private land you may encounter hunters.
And no, no you may shoot or kill a dog if you feel under threat. At least not in the UK you can't.
You'd have to be some kind of Jason Statham kind of badass to slit a dogs throat when it's attacking you, unless it's a little dog, in which case, man the f
k up and kick it off.
If a big dog is fully attacking you, you're not slitting it's throat, you may get some lunges and stabs in with a knife but you'd better be quick.
Slit an attacking dogs throat, well I never!!
k up and kick it off.If a big dog is fully attacking you, you're not slitting it's throat, you may get some lunges and stabs in with a knife but you'd better be quick.
Slit an attacking dogs throat, well I never!!
TVR1 said:
zulash said:
Oh really!!.... i would've burned the farmhouse down had the prick shot one of my dogs! 
No you wouldn't.Oh, and as your here, I've just traded a 995 for £15k that you can have for 49,995 if you want?
Z is just upset at finding out that the true definition of sheep worrying doesn't involve himself and a pair of wellies!
Jasandjules said:
Jazzman1960 said:
I checked with the British Association for Conservation and Shooting and Thames Valley Police headquarters at Kidlington.
To be clear, a Police Officer has advised you that you are at liberty to slit the throat of a dog near you?I reported this to the police and I was advised that because I was unsure of the potential outcome and that as I felt threatened that I would have been ok to kill them and that in the circurstances they would prosecute the woman under the dangerous dogs act. They would rather that I didn't shoot them but use a knife for fear that the bullet may injure someone else if unsafely shot. This would not have been the case as I was standing and therefore the shot would have gone into the ground which is soft in that area of woodland.
Further to this I checked with BASC for a second opinion and they confirmed that this was correct.
Dogs must be either on a lead or at close heal when out and the owners must not trespass on private land. I have many signs indicating that it is private land and that shooting may take place at any time, and yet the idiots still come on to the land. I have been hunting on this piece of land for over two years therefore the "dog walkers" are taking notice at last, but it is a slow process. Some get a fright when I approach them to ask them to leave, but at all times my rifle stays on my shoulder.
Now you have the complete picture. Fortunately as a hunter you have to keep calm and collected at all times. Deer stalking is only for a trained person who has proven to the police that they are safe to hunt with high powered high velocity rifles. To obtain a Deer Stalking Certificate two of the five examinations is The Law and another is on Safety (this is a practical examination) and anything under 100% you fail.
Butter Face said:
You'd have to be some kind of Jason Statham kind of badass to slit a dogs throat when it's attacking you, unless it's a little dog, in which case, man the fk up and kick it off.
If a big dog is fully attacking you, you're not slitting it's throat, you may get some lunges and stabs in with a knife but you'd better be quick.
Slit an attacking dogs throat, well I never!!
Christ Ive just stumbled on to this thread, I haven't read all of it, but from this last page theres clearly a lot of people who are a)unfamiliar with dog behaviour or b)plain scared of dogs.k up and kick it off.If a big dog is fully attacking you, you're not slitting it's throat, you may get some lunges and stabs in with a knife but you'd better be quick.
Slit an attacking dogs throat, well I never!!
No it this doesn't excuse poor dog behaviour, but as an owner of large dogs over the years (french mastiffs) and having had confrontation with lots of shytey trained dog aggressive dogs,.. unless the dog is highly trained or naturally dominant aggressive (which is unsual) it will back down if you take it to them. The dog will flight or fight, or go into submission.
The last dog that went to attack my Dogue de Bordeaux got a scream of "NO,NO,NO,NO" (like forces scream gas gas gas) whilst walknig through it..it bailed flat on the floor in submission ...Useless lady owner gibbering n shock that fido was flattened. Obviously if your not dog savvy don't try it, but dogs pick up on weakness.. Ive had others where Ive had to make physical contact with the attacking dog... but it still backed off.
All this talk of slitting throats and guns.. its not really cricket chaps..this isn't downtown LA.. for christ sakes pick up your man jewels. If you've spent enough hours training a dog in defence or other disciplines like schutzund, your hardly going to let it wander around meeting and greeting people in public. Protection training costs a lot of time and money so you'd never risk losing that investment in a casual situation.
And like the above poster says. good luck with the knife... I have seen dogs attacking that move like apache helicopters, and I'm guessing if your carrying a knife and wielding it at a dog your nervous.
i find this all curious as a local farmer shot one of the local dog training clubs happy go lucky dogs on his land.. and if we're being realistic most farmers are very dog savvy...
Jazzman1960 said:
In the situation that I found myself in there were two dogs barking, snarling and baying at me (when they are low on their front legs and bouncing). .
Low on their front legs means they are trying to bluff you into buggering off, you could easily have sent them in the other direction .. Head lunging forwards with front legs behind neck line holding position means they're game for action.. And here in lies the problem with the majority of the public versus cr4p dog owners. The dogs trying its luck but doesn't really deserve to be killed as your not in huge amount of danger.If you had released a firearm (you said rifle) near the owner, my guess is she would have reported it and you would end up with at minimum a caution, no matter what the police have said. As they will have a duty to investigate the owners claims.. For me that would preclude me from almost all work.
Edited by m4tti on Friday 8th May 22:33
m4tti said:
Jazzman1960 said:
In the situation that I found myself in there were two dogs barking, snarling and baying at me (when they are low on their front legs and bouncing). .
Low on their front legs means they are trying to bluff you into buggering off, you could easily have sent them in the other direction .. Head lunging forwards with front legs behind neck line holding position means they're game for action.. And here in lies the problem with the majority of the public versus cr4p dog owners. The dogs trying its luck but doesn't really deserve to be killed as your not in huge amount of danger.If you had released a firearm (you said rifle) near the owner, my guess is she would have reported it and you would end up with at minimum a caution, no matter what the police have said. As they will have a duty to investigate the owners claims.. For me that would preclude me from almost all work.
Edited by m4tti on Friday 8th May 22:33
m4tti said:
Jazzman1960 said:
In the situation that I found myself in there were two dogs barking, snarling and baying at me (when they are low on their front legs and bouncing). .
Low on their front legs means they are trying to bluff you into buggering off, you could easily have sent them in the other direction .. Head lunging forwards with front legs behind neck line holding position means they're game for action.. And here in lies the problem with the majority of the public versus cr4p dog owners. The dogs trying its luck but doesn't really deserve to be killed as your not in huge amount of danger.mph1977 said:
" i was in fear for my life and after warning the owner several times i had no alternative than to shoot the dog " ...
If you release a fire arm it will be investigated in huge detail, and every detail will be reviewed.My irish grandma could scream at you and you'd be in fear of your life.. doesn't mean your life really is in physical danger, And if you release the firearm, especially if a public foot path crosses the land there will be serious questions to be answered.. I have both guns and dogs..
You could have put the safety on and had a swipe at those dogs with the but of the gun and they would have disappeared.
Jazzman1960 said:
Thank you, I was unaware of this as a bluff. It certainly didn't seem like they were bluffing but never the less the owner must keep their dogs under control. There is no excuse and I would have had good cause and as you may have gathered I have no problem in killing an animal. I am not nervous around dogs, nor am I frightened of them. I am in very close proximity with them when on Pheasant drives. I grew up with a Collie as a family pet and I have never come across this behavour before therfore naturally I was uncertain of the outcome. I always carry three knives when hunting. Two for gralloching and one for anything else. The last one is easy to hand for chopping branches etc. as it is not sanitised.
Absolutely the dogs should be under control, and to a certain extent you shouldn't have to be familiar with dog behaviour. but over the last x number of years owning mastiff and bull dogs I've discovered the world is riddled with bad dog owners.. but the point is by and large these dogs really won't do anything to you.As an example I had a female dogue de bordeaux (we rescued her from her from a puppy farm in wales where some scum had bred her within an inch of her life then not fed her so she was 25kg, or half her bodyweight).. with us and dog savvy friends she had a game of bitting our backsides then circling us a 30mph, then bowing down and bouncing around in front of us.. Obviously until we trained her out of that we never let her off the lead. But to the un-itiated a mastiff biting your arse then circling you could be considered a bit alarming.. but that was her way of getting you to chase her! As I say dog behaviour is a strange thing often misread.
The chances of meeting a genuinely dominant aggressive dog, or a protection dog are slim.
Oh and don't go advertising the cutlery you wear in public old chap
Edited by m4tti on Friday 8th May 23:01
m4tti said:
Jazzman1960 said:
Thank you, I was unaware of this as a bluff. It certainly didn't seem like they were bluffing but never the less the owner must keep their dogs under control. There is no excuse and I would have had good cause and as you may have gathered I have no problem in killing an animal. I am not nervous around dogs, nor am I frightened of them. I am in very close proximity with them when on Pheasant drives. I grew up with a Collie as a family pet and I have never come across this behavour before therfore naturally I was uncertain of the outcome. I always carry three knives when hunting. Two for gralloching and one for anything else. The last one is easy to hand for chopping branches etc. as it is not sanitised.
Absolutely the dogs should be under control, and to a certain extent you shouldn't have to be familiar with dog behaviour. but over the last x number of years owning mastiff and bull dogs I've discovered the world is riddled with bad dog owners.. but the point is by and large these dogs really won't do anything to you.Jazzman1960 said:
Thank you again. I will remember for the future and hopefully I will never have to call their bluff. How should I react if I find myself in a similar situation please?
Usually if your not a confrontational type the best approach is to just keep walking, or use a strong and definite vocal command walking through the dog. On the rare occasion that you really believe you are under attack, and the dog has hold of you, you can a)cover up or b)choke the dog into submission if it has a collar on. This will be more effective than stabbing it to a certain extent as all you are doing is releasing adrenaline c) If there are two of you, if the dog has hold of yourself or your dog, the second person should approach from behind, grasp its back legs like a wheel barrow, rotate it away from the target. It can't reach that far behind to attack the person restraining it, tether it with the back legs to a solid object.As above chances of you being under attack by a dog that is trained in defence and needing to do any of this are very very slim.
Apologies if this upsets any animal welfare types.. i
Edited by m4tti on Friday 8th May 23:14
m4tti said:
mph1977 said:
" i was in fear for my life and after warning the owner several times i had no alternative than to shoot the dog " ...
If you release a fire arm it will be investigated in huge detail, and every detail will be reviewed.My irish grandma could scream at you and you'd be in fear of your life.. doesn't mean your life really is in physical danger, And if you release the firearm, especially if a public foot path crosses the land there will be serious questions to be answered.. I have both guns and dogs..
You could have put the safety on and had a swipe at those dogs with the but of the gun and they would have disappeared.
Jazzman1960 said:
The safety is always on when carrying a loaded rifle. I had shooting sticks with me and tried to usher the closer dog away but the owner asked me not to, therefore I took it that she thought that it may make the situation worse and therefore desisted. To accept a caution is to accept guilt and I wouldn't have been guilty of anything other than defending myself. If defence denotes guilt then the law needs changing.
Shooting sticks are a good move.. they provide distance between you and a dog. And making contact with a shooting stick to make dogs disappear is a lot easier to explain than shooting them if your not a farmer with livestock.m4tti said:
Jazzman1960 said:
The safety is always on when carrying a loaded rifle. I had shooting sticks with me and tried to usher the closer dog away but the owner asked me not to, therefore I took it that she thought that it may make the situation worse and therefore desisted. To accept a caution is to accept guilt and I wouldn't have been guilty of anything other than defending myself. If defence denotes guilt then the law needs changing.
Shooting sticks are a good move.. they provide distance between you and a dog. And making contact with a shooting stick to make dogs disappear is a lot easier to explain than shooting them if your not a farmer with livestock.Sad news OP, but I've a friend who's dogs did similar. The farmer didn't shoot the dogs, but my friend knew destroying the dogs was the only way forward, which he did... Also he had to pay for any sheep and lambs killed when the dogs worried the flock and the cost of scanning the remainder of ewes for miscarriages. I've not had an update on costs but defo a few £'000!!
I think the farmer has been more than fair if this wasn't the first occasion where your dog has worried his livestock.
I think the farmer has been more than fair if this wasn't the first occasion where your dog has worried his livestock.
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