Shooting dog on farmland
Discussion
donkeyapple said:
mandalore said:
DonkeyApple said:
Mandalore said:
I am not seeing/reading anything 'negative' in the above post about the idiots who let dogs roam unsupervised so that they kill livestock. Just an opinion about other stuff, that bears no relation to story in the clifftop article.
Do you condone people who do not take responsibility for pets in that scenario, or do you blame the farmers for it??
It's clearly the fault of the person responsible for the dog, however there is normally more to any such story. For example, had the sheep escaped from where they were kept and had moved to an area where an owner would not expect to find them while walking their dog? Was the dog well trained under a proficient and responsible owner and this was an unfortunate accident? Did the owner try to stop their dog etc?Do you condone people who do not take responsibility for pets in that scenario, or do you blame the farmers for it??
I don't think it prudent or intelligent to purely imagine in this incident that it was an untrained dog and the owner stood their laughing or should be killed.
The details are not present and even if they were how can a balanced human advocate the killing of another? It's an over reaction and part of the exact same problem that sees these dog incidents arise in the first instance. People in the UK seems to have lost touch with what dogs are and what the appropriate relationship is between them and humans.
Frankly, it reminds me of one of those cheap insurance policies, that you will never be able to claim on, because the small print caveats everything and anything, to avoid paying you.
The question WAS about the scenario in the new story BTW.
Edited by Mandalore on Wednesday 24th June 11:39
converted lurker said:
My dogs are never on leads and are always around livestock. It's just a training issue.
That is why I have tried to use the term 'pet dogs' as working dogs will be more trained in this regard. However, they are still not infallible. I've seen farm dogs join in with pet dogs that have strayed into the land and coursed each other around fields of livestock. I've seen farm dogs sadly hit by cars. While it may not be feasible to always be in control ( in terms of retaining it) of any dog there will always be an element of risk involved. I grew up with extremely heavily trained dogs, it doesn't stop them from being dogs.
converted lurker said:
My dogs are never on leads and are always around livestock. It's just a training issue.
I like to think my dogs have been trained properly and go most places without a lead. In 5 years of hiking in the High Peak and Snowdonia, wild camping etc the dogs have never chased any livestock, or even shown the remotest interest in other dogs. Last weekend I was on the Nantile Ridge and the younger dog chased two sheep. It seemed it was trying to herd them, there was no nipping, barking or attacking - just circling and penning these two sheep in. I was appalled. The entire incident lasted only 10 seconds before the dog came to heel and the sheep moved away - quite unpanicked...but I'm more in agreement now with the previous poster who suggested a dog can never be trusted. Of course there's levels of trust... .converted lurker said:
Going back to the original post. As a landowner, livestock owner and firearms owner I would have no hesitation in shooting a dog on my land that had just finished worrying my livestock for a repeat offence.
For a first offence I might offer some leeway. For a second then sorry, no. I have had this exact situation before now with a Labrador dog (uncastrated) of a neighbour who eventually ran 24 cattle over a fence into a dingle below causing two two break their legs and have to be shot in agony many hours after when I eventually found them.
I shot the Labrador two days later from 450 yards away as it trotted towards its previous hunting ground with cattle in the same field. If you can't control your dog other will.
If you didn't find the cattle for 'many hours' you have no idea what dog was responsible.For a first offence I might offer some leeway. For a second then sorry, no. I have had this exact situation before now with a Labrador dog (uncastrated) of a neighbour who eventually ran 24 cattle over a fence into a dingle below causing two two break their legs and have to be shot in agony many hours after when I eventually found them.
I shot the Labrador two days later from 450 yards away as it trotted towards its previous hunting ground with cattle in the same field. If you can't control your dog other will.
You then shoot the first dog you find afterwards without any evidence of wrong doing on the dogs part.
That is an excellent example on why people think this practice should be banned.
Martin4x4 said:
converted lurker said:
Going back to the original post. As a landowner, livestock owner and firearms owner I would have no hesitation in shooting a dog on my land that had just finished worrying my livestock for a repeat offence.
For a first offence I might offer some leeway. For a second then sorry, no. I have had this exact situation before now with a Labrador dog (uncastrated) of a neighbour who eventually ran 24 cattle over a fence into a dingle below causing two two break their legs and have to be shot in agony many hours after when I eventually found them.
I shot the Labrador two days later from 450 yards away as it trotted towards its previous hunting ground with cattle in the same field. If you can't control your dog other will.
If you didn't find the cattle for 'many hours' you have no idea what dog was responsible.For a first offence I might offer some leeway. For a second then sorry, no. I have had this exact situation before now with a Labrador dog (uncastrated) of a neighbour who eventually ran 24 cattle over a fence into a dingle below causing two two break their legs and have to be shot in agony many hours after when I eventually found them.
I shot the Labrador two days later from 450 yards away as it trotted towards its previous hunting ground with cattle in the same field. If you can't control your dog other will.
You then shoot the first dog you find afterwards without any evidence of wrong doing on the dogs part.
That is an excellent example on why people think this practice should be banned.
The poster's not 'shooting the first dog'!
Mandalore said:
donkeyapple said:
mandalore said:
DonkeyApple said:
Mandalore said:
I am not seeing/reading anything 'negative' in the above post about the idiots who let dogs roam unsupervised so that they kill livestock. Just an opinion about other stuff, that bears no relation to story in the clifftop article.
Do you condone people who do not take responsibility for pets in that scenario, or do you blame the farmers for it??
It's clearly the fault of the person responsible for the dog, however there is normally more to any such story. For example, had the sheep escaped from where they were kept and had moved to an area where an owner would not expect to find them while walking their dog? Was the dog well trained under a proficient and responsible owner and this was an unfortunate accident? Did the owner try to stop their dog etc?Do you condone people who do not take responsibility for pets in that scenario, or do you blame the farmers for it??
I don't think it prudent or intelligent to purely imagine in this incident that it was an untrained dog and the owner stood their laughing or should be killed.
The details are not present and even if they were how can a balanced human advocate the killing of another? It's an over reaction and part of the exact same problem that sees these dog incidents arise in the first instance. People in the UK seems to have lost touch with what dogs are and what the appropriate relationship is between them and humans.
Frankly, it reminds me of one of those cheap insurance policies, that you will never be able to claim on, because the small print caveats everything and anything, to avoid paying you.
The question WAS about the scenario in the new story BTW.
Edited by Mandalore on Wednesday 24th June 11:39
This has probably come about as you are more focussed in having a dispute than following the discussion.
It took many hours to round up the escaped cattle. It then took more hours to find the ones at the bottom of the dingle with snapped forelegs.
I didn't witness the incident - my neighbour did who knew the dog as it has escaped, it was notorious.
Two days later the same dog headed back to the same cattle in the same field and the owner still at work - I shot the dog. This is how it works. If you're going to keep a dog in build a proper fence or take the very simple precaution of a collar and a long chain. It isn't hard.
I didn't witness the incident - my neighbour did who knew the dog as it has escaped, it was notorious.
Two days later the same dog headed back to the same cattle in the same field and the owner still at work - I shot the dog. This is how it works. If you're going to keep a dog in build a proper fence or take the very simple precaution of a collar and a long chain. It isn't hard.
converted lurker said:
It took many hours to round up the escaped cattle. It then took more hours to find the ones at the bottom of the dingle with snapped forelegs.
I didn't witness the incident - my neighbour did who knew the dog as it has escaped, it was notorious.
Two days later the same dog headed back to the same cattle in the same field and the owner still at work - I shot the dog. This is how it works. If you're going to keep a dog in build a proper fence or take the very simple precaution of a collar and a long chain. It isn't hard.
Are you a farmer or a comercial pilot?I didn't witness the incident - my neighbour did who knew the dog as it has escaped, it was notorious.
Two days later the same dog headed back to the same cattle in the same field and the owner still at work - I shot the dog. This is how it works. If you're going to keep a dog in build a proper fence or take the very simple precaution of a collar and a long chain. It isn't hard.
I'm a commercial pilot that lives on a farm. One day a Boeing, the next a Claas. Does that fry your noodle?
Shooting a dog is not something I like doing but then neither is shooting cattle with broken legs. The dog is a dig and I don't blame them. It's up to the owners to train their dog or fence/chain it in. I've had to chain wandering dogs before now and it can be done perfectly humanely,
As I said, for a first offence I'd be reticent about pulling the trigger unless the situation was clear and pressing. For a repeat offender I'm going to shoot on sight unless accompanied. Simple as.
Shooting a dog is not something I like doing but then neither is shooting cattle with broken legs. The dog is a dig and I don't blame them. It's up to the owners to train their dog or fence/chain it in. I've had to chain wandering dogs before now and it can be done perfectly humanely,
As I said, for a first offence I'd be reticent about pulling the trigger unless the situation was clear and pressing. For a repeat offender I'm going to shoot on sight unless accompanied. Simple as.
converted lurker said:
I shot the Labrador two days later from 450 yards away as it trotted towards its previous hunting ground with cattle in the same field. If you can't control your dog other will.
That's good shooting on a fairly small moving target, was there some elevation change that shortened the shot?.I have shot deer, but not more than 225yds or so - I wouldn't be sure of a clean kill at nearly a quarter of a mile - what shooting iron were you using?.
converted lurker said:
I'm a commercial pilot that lives on a farm. One day a Boeing, the next a Claas. Does that fry your noodle?
No, it just sounds a little bit odd. Keeping livestock is a fairly intensive job, many farmers for example don't get an annual Holiday. The fact you find time to be a commercial Pilot as well is a little supprising.converted lurker said:
Tikka T3 .223 with Leupold mk2 optics prone with bipod. I have captained at Bisley and conditions at sunset were excellent. I can shoot.
So you just happened to be out with an hunting rifle when you spotted the dog and so shot it?Pilot, crack shot, farmer, are you also Superman?
Devil2575 said:
converted lurker said:
I'm a commercial pilot that lives on a farm. One day a Boeing, the next a Claas. Does that fry your noodle?
No, it just sounds a little bit odd. Keeping livestock is a fairly intensive job, many farmers for example don't get an annual Holiday. The fact you find time to be a commercial Pilot as well is a little supprising.Devil2575 said:
So you just happened to be out with an hunting rifle when you spotted the dog and so shot it?
Pilot, crack shot, farmer, are you also Superman?
I have a family. They own a farm. I was in the military. I can shoot. I left left the military to be a commercial pilot. I built a house back on the farm. I help farm. Pilot, crack shot, farmer, are you also Superman?
You appear to be stalking me. Possibly you seek to out me as a Walter Mitty. Unfortunately for you I'm not. Would you like a picture of the Birds custard on the Combine dashboard with the rifle or will you just let it slide before you fail?
Devil2575 said:
So you just happened to be out with an hunting rifle when you spotted the dog and so shot it?
Pilot, crack shot, farmer, are you also Superman?
I'm always out with a hunting rifle - it's the only type I own. I was kind of expecting the dog to be loose as this was the pattern. Dumb wife comes home in the afternoon. Lets dog out into poorly fenced garden. Dog escapes before husband comes home from his work in the evening. Livestock gets worried.Pilot, crack shot, farmer, are you also Superman?
I shot the dog.
I took it round to them in the pickup and I lent him the rabbiting space to dig the grave. He kind of accepted it. He was a bit of townie.
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