Tenant acting unreasonably
Discussion
nitrodave said:
Jeez, if you were my managing agent I'd be upset too.
Tenant moves in, and is subjected to frequent inspections which turn up nothing. He pays the rent and hasn;t trashed the place. I'm not surprised he's vexxed with you.
I rented a flat for a few years and not once did I see the managing agent or landlord.
did you read the posts? We are trying to get 1 inspection a year and are being refused. Hardly frequent.Tenant moves in, and is subjected to frequent inspections which turn up nothing. He pays the rent and hasn;t trashed the place. I'm not surprised he's vexxed with you.
I rented a flat for a few years and not once did I see the managing agent or landlord.
jbsportstech said:
I have never seen a tenants reference and have always paid on time and tried not to rock the boat.Do they ask about condition or are the concerned with rent payment?
I assume give them a good reference as they pay and look after the place but just get funny about inspections.
some requests will ask 3 or 4 questions some will ask about 20.I assume give them a good reference as they pay and look after the place but just get funny about inspections.
Its important for the right questions to be asked and to actually read the replies given by the agents.
ie True answers for the same possible tenant
Q- is the rent uptodate. A- yes
should have asked :
Q has the tenant every been in arrears and by how much and how long
A- yes £2100 for 2 months. Rent for this month is uptodate.
Q - has the property been looked after?
A - We have not carried out the final inspection yet as the tenant has not vacated.
Should have ask: Q What is the current condition of the property and has the final inspection been carried out.
A: the property has not been inspected as the tenant has refused access. The tenant has not returned keys yet.
Q- Would you re-let to this tenant
A -
We would write back/email back and ignor that question if its a negative. Often the other agents/ref companies fail to see that we have not answered that question.
Needless to say as an old Hack to this game I run my business with an eye to getting in the right tenants and asking the right questions and understanding the replies and looking for gaps and reading in between the lines. We are very careful with the references we take up and tenants we put into place.
Edited by superlightr on Tuesday 14th July 11:29
superlightr said:
did you read the posts? We are trying to get 1 inspection a year and are being refused. Hardly frequent.
Yes, I did read it and it came across as though you were hassling the tenant. Even once a year is unnecessary. The tenant should be left alone. It is their home to live in and inspections are an invasion of privacy. They are paying rent on time each month and I can only assume left a deposit.It sounds like you are seeking approval for what you are doing and you don't like it when I disagree with the way you operate.
It's nothing personal, but in this instance I sympathise with the tenant.
nitrodave said:
superlightr said:
did you read the posts? We are trying to get 1 inspection a year and are being refused. Hardly frequent.
Yes, I did read it and it came across as though you were hassling the tenant. Even once a year is unnecessary. The tenant should be left alone. It is their home to live in and inspections are an invasion of privacy. They are paying rent on time each month and I can only assume left a deposit.It sounds like you are seeking approval for what you are doing and you don't like it when I disagree with the way you operate.
It's nothing personal, but in this instance I sympathise with the tenant.
nitrodave said:
superlightr said:
did you read the posts? We are trying to get 1 inspection a year and are being refused. Hardly frequent.
Yes, I did read it and it came across as though you were hassling the tenant. Even once a year is unnecessary. The tenant should be left alone. It is their home to live in and inspections are an invasion of privacy. They are paying rent on time each month and I can only assume left a deposit.It sounds like you are seeking approval for what you are doing and you don't like it when I disagree with the way you operate.
It's nothing personal, but in this instance I sympathise with the tenant.
t state? 
I have no skin in the renting game at all but I can see that as a property owner an anula inspection isn't unreasonable. With long standing tenants where trust has been built up I could see ow this would be relaxed, but in a situation where the condition of the property has been flagged up as an issue by a contractor I think it entirely reasonable that the agent/landlord do an inspection.
nitrodave said:
superlightr said:
did you read the posts? We are trying to get 1 inspection a year and are being refused. Hardly frequent.
Yes, I did read it and it came across as though you were hassling the tenant. Even once a year is unnecessary. The tenant should be left alone. It is their home to live in and inspections are an invasion of privacy. They are paying rent on time each month and I can only assume left a deposit.It sounds like you are seeking approval for what you are doing and you don't like it when I disagree with the way you operate.
It's nothing personal, but in this instance I sympathise with the tenant.
We also we had a report from a contractor that the property wasnt being looked after so we were concerned that the owners interests in the property was at risk. If we did not try to inspect we would not be doing a good job for the owner.
The deposit is 1.5 x the rent but the property value is about 200x the rent. The tenant can refuse - we are not going to argue over this - not worth the hassle but equally the owner is in their rights to give notice to recover the property. Hence the tenant now has to leave. Cause and effect.
Edited by superlightr on Tuesday 14th July 12:25
Devil2575 said:
nitrodave said:
superlightr said:
did you read the posts? We are trying to get 1 inspection a year and are being refused. Hardly frequent.
Yes, I did read it and it came across as though you were hassling the tenant. Even once a year is unnecessary. The tenant should be left alone. It is their home to live in and inspections are an invasion of privacy. They are paying rent on time each month and I can only assume left a deposit.It sounds like you are seeking approval for what you are doing and you don't like it when I disagree with the way you operate.
It's nothing personal, but in this instance I sympathise with the tenant.
t state? I have no skin in the renting game at all but I can see that as a property owner an anula inspection isn't unreasonable. With long standing tenants where trust has been built up I could see ow this would be relaxed, but in a situation where the condition of the property has been flagged up as an issue by a contractor I think it entirely reasonable that the agent/landlord do an inspection.
You don't get a car on hire purchase and have to take it to the dealership every three months so they can inspect how you treat it.
The original post says an inspection carried out after 3 months and all was ok. 6 months later, another inspection is carried out and all was well. It should be left at that.
Rental payments made, no major cause for concern, yet the agent insists on another inspection shortly after. This would annoy me and feel like it was verging on harassment.
Rented or owned, the property is a home to somebody and he should be left alone without knowing an agent will be invading his private space and judging his living standards.
I appreciate you're doing your job, but you need to see it from a tenants perspective.
nitrodave said:
superlightr said:
did you read the posts? We are trying to get 1 inspection a year and are being refused. Hardly frequent.
Yes, I did read it and it came across as though you were hassling the tenant. Even once a year is unnecessary. The tenant should be left alone. It is their home to live in and inspections are an invasion of privacy. They are paying rent on time each month and I can only assume left a deposit.It sounds like you are seeking approval for what you are doing and you don't like it when I disagree with the way you operate.
It's nothing personal, but in this instance I sympathise with the tenant.
Properties I let personally I don't do inspections as I feel they are intrusive. I can see the place when I need to fix things. The one I let though an agent has 4 monthly inspections, but that's what they agreed with the tenant.
nitrodave said:
I don't rent now, but I have rented a property for 7 odd years and didn't have one inspection. If I did it would have no doubt felt intrusive.
You don't get a car on hire purchase and have to take it to the dealership every three months so they can inspect how you treat it.
The original post says an inspection carried out after 3 months and all was ok. 6 months later, another inspection is carried out and all was well. It should be left at that.
Rental payments made, no major cause for concern, yet the agent insists on another inspection shortly after. This would annoy me and feel like it was verging on harassment.
Rented or owned, the property is a home to somebody and he should be left alone without knowing an agent will be invading his private space and judging his living standards.
I appreciate you're doing your job, but you need to see it from a tenants perspective.
Similarly, if the agreement for inspections was in the contract, is it not reasonable to assume that by signing it the tenant was in agreement with the inspection? I think that the inspection is a 2-way thing - it is there to help protect the landlord from a disagreeable tenant, but also to help the tenant have a decent property to live in, as I think suprlightr said previously, it may highlight future correction to the property before <whatever> breaks/ceases to work correctly.You don't get a car on hire purchase and have to take it to the dealership every three months so they can inspect how you treat it.
The original post says an inspection carried out after 3 months and all was ok. 6 months later, another inspection is carried out and all was well. It should be left at that.
Rental payments made, no major cause for concern, yet the agent insists on another inspection shortly after. This would annoy me and feel like it was verging on harassment.
Rented or owned, the property is a home to somebody and he should be left alone without knowing an agent will be invading his private space and judging his living standards.
I appreciate you're doing your job, but you need to see it from a tenants perspective.
1 inspection per year seems reasonable to me, especially where concerns are raised.
When we rented we were in one house for 4 years. We only had 2 'inspections' during that time, one being the final inspection (by a very hungover member of staff and his mate, who didn't work for the agency, still wearing face paint- clearly they had a mental night out...). Mostly it was contractors doing various bits and pieces, where no problems were flagged up. If the house was a tip then I would expect the lettings agent to be requesting more inspections.
When we rented we were in one house for 4 years. We only had 2 'inspections' during that time, one being the final inspection (by a very hungover member of staff and his mate, who didn't work for the agency, still wearing face paint- clearly they had a mental night out...). Mostly it was contractors doing various bits and pieces, where no problems were flagged up. If the house was a tip then I would expect the lettings agent to be requesting more inspections.
nitrodave said:
You don't get a car on hire purchase and have to take it to the dealership every three months so they can inspect how you treat it.
No, it's once every year, or 12,000 miles for a service.The bottom line is that 6 month checks are in the contract. If you don't like that, then you can demonstrate to your landlord over time that this is not necessary as you are an able and trustworthy custodian of their property.
I'm a tenant, and also a landlord. I've only had two tenants:
Tenant 1: We find that he has felt it necessary to drill a cut through the doorstep as he locked himself out. We also find out that because he wanted a fourth outdoor light, he took a cut from an electrical wire outside the house, and installed his own outdoor light. The new 'junction box' was in indoor rated chocolate box, 'weather sealed' with electrical tape. Of course, we were informed of neither until the inspection and we found them.
Tenant 2: Despite getting British Gas homelier for them, so they have 24 hour access to trades, for free. They had their own 'trusted' tradesman round, who informed them that the shower that they had manage to slowly loosen from the wall was dangerous.
They get installed a new £50 shower, and even a replacement ceiling pull switch located in a different place so the bill could be bumped up. Additionally, as the shower had the 'wrong type' of sealant, he replaced that too.
First I hear of it is when tenant hands me a bill for £500 - where we had a serious conversation about allowing monkeys to 'modify' our house. It transpired that the shower didn't need to be replaced at all, and in any case had a 300% markup on the B&Q price and the shower sealant was fine. The new sealant failed within 6 months an caused a leak through to below.
This is why you have inspections. These are people that seem very normal to meet. You don't know what state your property is in until you view it.
nitrodave said:
superlightr said:
did you read the posts? We are trying to get 1 inspection a year and are being refused. Hardly frequent.
Yes, I did read it and it came across as though you were hassling the tenant. Even once a year is unnecessary. The tenant should be left alone. It is their home to live in and inspections are an invasion of privacy. They are paying rent on time each month and I can only assume left a deposit.It sounds like you are seeking approval for what you are doing and you don't like it when I disagree with the way you operate.
It's nothing personal, but in this instance I sympathise with the tenant.
You're not a LL are you.Inspections: For first year every three months, thereafter annually. Yes it may be their home.... But it's my house.
nitrodave said:
superlightr said:
did you read the posts? We are trying to get 1 inspection a year and are being refused. Hardly frequent.
Yes, I did read it and it came across as though you were hassling the tenant. Even once a year is unnecessary. The tenant should be left alone. It is their home to live in and inspections are an invasion of privacy. They are paying rent on time each month and I can only assume left a deposit.It sounds like you are seeking approval for what you are doing and you don't like it when I disagree with the way you operate.
It's nothing personal, but in this instance I sympathise with the tenant.
The tenant in this case is clearly a dick.
one inspection a year is not onerous. Its not an invasion of privacy.
The tenant will have chosen to agree to allow the landlord this access on reasonable notice. If tenant feels this is an invasion of privacy then they should have not made that agreement.
Is it an invasion of privacy when someone comes into to look at the toilet? its a quid pro quo- the landlord agrees to keep the bits of the flat in good order that he is responsible for (and the tenant holds the LL responsible) and the tenant agrees to keep the bits of the flat in good order that is responsible for (and the landlord has one day a year to make sure that tenant has conformed).
just an update.
Possession order granted. Date he has to move out is next week.
The tenant actually got a solicitor involved who tried to defend the notice.
They couldnt and lost. They looked very silly when the mag said after their 'speech' it was not defendable as it was issued correctly.
Hopefully bailiffs wont be involved.
What a silly tenant for not allowing a few inspections and ergo this and that. Waste of everyone time. More fool the private landlord where he is moving to has not asked us for references.
Possession order granted. Date he has to move out is next week.
The tenant actually got a solicitor involved who tried to defend the notice.
They couldnt and lost. They looked very silly when the mag said after their 'speech' it was not defendable as it was issued correctly.
Hopefully bailiffs wont be involved.
What a silly tenant for not allowing a few inspections and ergo this and that. Waste of everyone time. More fool the private landlord where he is moving to has not asked us for references.
Osinjak said:
nitrodave said:
You don't get a car on hire purchase and have to take it to the dealership every three months so they can inspect how you treat it.
You're right, you don't. Because it's a car.Both business assets that are lent to people in return tor a payment.
As for inspections they do seem pointless as the landlord can have their property destroyed at any stage if the tenant really wants. Why can't the landlord protect themselves with insurance if they are that worried about damage?
Osinjak said:
nitrodave said:
You don't get a car on hire purchase and have to take it to the dealership every three months so they can inspect how you treat it.
You're right, you don't. Because it's a car.Both business assets that are lent to people in return tor a payment.
As for inspections they do seem pointless as the landlord can have their property destroyed at any stage if the tenant really wants. Why can't the landlord protect themselves with insurance if they are that worried about damage?
sugerbear said:
What an odd thing to say. There really isn't any difference between leasing a car and a house. If anything you get more protection as a landlord because of the requirement for a big up front deposit which can be used to offset any damage at the end of the tenancy.
Both business assets that are lent to people in return tor a payment.
As for inspections they do seem pointless as the landlord can have their property destroyed at any stage if the tenant really wants. Why can't the landlord protect themselves with insurance if they are that worried about damage?
A big deposit? One months rent, even two months can be swallowed up very quickly with some wanton damage. Ever tried returning a damaged car? The finance company will pursue you all the way, whereas a private landlord is often just an individual who can't afford to pursue. Both business assets that are lent to people in return tor a payment.
As for inspections they do seem pointless as the landlord can have their property destroyed at any stage if the tenant really wants. Why can't the landlord protect themselves with insurance if they are that worried about damage?
Glenred said:
Our company carry out inspections quarterly, pretty standard practice and we generally have no issues.
Only thing we ever get is tenants asking to change days or pick a specific time.
Probably because your tenants are frightened of being evicted but personally I would call that oppressive.Only thing we ever get is tenants asking to change days or pick a specific time.
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