No foreigners need apply!

[Andy Zarse]

My other half is an EU national (Dutch) though permanently resident in the UK for four years, successfully running a business here, fully registered with HMRC etc.

It looks like she's being turned away by a car leasing broker and their lender on the sole grounds of "not being British". In fact their joint application makes clear British only need apply, and all applications from foreigners will not be proceeded with.

To my mind this is naked discrimination, (race for the purposes of the law is defined as including nationality) and in so far as my research shows, their behaviour is illegal on a number of different levels, not least the Financial Conduct Authority's Treating Customers Fairly regulations (both the broker and the lender being a regulated institutions of the FCA), EU trade legislation and UK race discrimination law.

Frankly I'm bloody livid about this. It's a modern day equivalent of "No blacks, no dogs no Irish". My son, who happens to have been born in Holland but has lived his entire life in the UK, is a Dutch passport holder. Is he liable to be treated as a second class citizen for the rest of his days too?

Mainly just getting it off my chest but if anyone has anything useful to add please feel free!

[ging84]

Andy Zarse said:

My other half is an EU national (Dutch) though permanently resident in the UK for four years, successfully running a business here, fully registered with HMRC etc.

It looks like she's being turned away by a car leasing broker and their lender on the sole grounds of "not being British". In fact their joint application makes clear British only need apply, and all applications from foreigners will not be proceeded with.

To my mind this is naked discrimination, (race for the purposes of the law is defined as including nationality) and in so far as my research shows, their behaviour is illegal on a number of different levels, not least the Financial Conduct Authority's Treating Customers Fairly regulations (both the broker and the lender being a regulated institutions of the FCA), EU trade legislation and UK race discrimination law.

Frankly I'm bloody livid about this. It's a modern day equivalent of "No blacks, no dogs no Irish". My son, who happens to have been born in Holland but has lived his entire life in the UK, is a Dutch passport holder. Is he liable to be treated as a second class citizen for the rest of his days too?

Mainly just getting it off my chest but if anyone has anything useful to add please feel free!

Can almost Guarantee you have got the wrong end of the stick and this has everything to residential status, not ethnicity.

[paintman]

Think we need sight of their T&Cs before any useful comments can be made one way or the other.

[Andy Zarse]

ging84 said:

Can almost Guarantee you have got the wrong end of the stick and this has everything to residential status, not ethnicity.

paintman said:

Think we need sight of their T&Cs before any useful comments can be made one way or the other.

I can assure you I have not got the wrong end of the stick. And here is the actual quotation from them:

"*if Non British passport holder the application does not meet the necessary criteria and we are unable to proceed any further with this particular application."

A passport does not confer any residential status, nor can this information be inferred from it.

[Corpulent Tosser]

So they would refuse to do business with a British citizen who does not hold a passport, seems very odd to me.

[ging84]

Andy Zarse said:

I can assure you I have not got the wrong end of the stick. And here is the actual quotation from them:

"*if Non British passport holder the application does not meet the necessary criteria and we are unable to proceed any further with this particular application."

A passport does not confer any residential status, nor can this information be inferred from it.

That does not prove they won't lease a car to someone non British, just that the particular method of application requires a british passport.
Have you contacted them an asked them if there is a way to apply if you don't have a passport ?

[Andy Zarse]

ging84 said:

Andy Zarse said:

I can assure you I have not got the wrong end of the stick. And here is the actual quotation from them:

"*if Non British passport holder the application does not meet the necessary criteria and we are unable to proceed any further with this particular application."

A passport does not confer any residential status, nor can this information be inferred from it.

That does not prove they won't lease a car to someone non British, just that the particular method of application requires a british passport.
Have you contacted them an asked them if there is a way to apply if you don't have a passport ?

So explain how can anyone who is non British possibly hold a British passport? Thus all foreigners excluded.

This is clearly saying if you hold a passport other than a British one then forget it; it is not saying forget it if you don't hold any passport.

[SK425]

Andy Zarse said:

ging84 said:

Andy Zarse said:

I can assure you I have not got the wrong end of the stick. And here is the actual quotation from them:

"*if Non British passport holder the application does not meet the necessary criteria and we are unable to proceed any further with this particular application."

A passport does not confer any residential status, nor can this information be inferred from it.

That does not prove they won't lease a car to someone non British, just that the particular method of application requires a british passport.
Have you contacted them an asked them if there is a way to apply if you don't have a passport ?

So explain how can anyone who is non British possibly hold a British passport? Thus all foreigners excluded.

This is clearly saying if you hold a passport other than a British one then forget it; it is not saying forget it if you don't hold any passport.

There was an implied "British" in ging84's last sentence. Read it as "Have you contacted them an asked them if there is a way to apply if you don't have a British passport ?" as I'm sure that's what was meant. If the only means of applying that they offer requires the applicant to hold a British passport, the company is not only doing itself out of business from all the foreigners in the world, but also all the British people who happen not to have a passport. One might imagine that they don't want to do that, so perhaps they have an alternative application method, less well publicised, that does not require the applicant to hold a British passport. Or perhaps they don't.

[paintman]

Which is why we need a link to their T&Cs, not just the quote you've provided.
And is this a personal lease or a business lease?

[btcc123]

Andy Zarse said:

ging84 said:

Andy Zarse said:

I can assure you I have not got the wrong end of the stick. And here is the actual quotation from them:

"*if Non British passport holder the application does not meet the necessary criteria and we are unable to proceed any further with this particular application."

A passport does not confer any residential status, nor can this information be inferred from it.

That does not prove they won't lease a car to someone non British, just that the particular method of application requires a british passport.
Have you contacted them an asked them if there is a way to apply if you don't have a passport ?

So explain how can anyone who is non British possibly hold a British passport? Thus all foreigners excluded.

This is clearly saying if you hold a passport other than a British one then forget it; it is not saying forget it if you don't hold any passport.

I cannot see a problem with a lease company in the UK leasing cars to British citizens only and no foreigners.If you were British but did not have a Passport I would imagine another form of proof would be ok.

If I was the UK lease company I would not lease a car to a Latvia or Uganda Passport holder as they would never see the car again.I also would not be surprised if I tried to lease a car in Spain,showed them my British Passport and they said on yer bike son.

[paintman]

Interesting that on their web page the Money Advice Service say in respect of one type of lease:
" If you plan on taking your car abroad, you may need to get written permission from the finance company each time you do so and there may also be a charge."
https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/...
As a guess I expect this is to do with the issues of recovering the vehicle if the lessee does a runner.

There may well be conditions that they will not lend money to a foreign national. If the borrower defaults & returns to their own country then recovering the money is going to be interesting.

Perhaps you'd be best taking this up with Citizens' Advice or one of the organisations you named in your OP & seeing what they say.

[austinsmirk]

er- go to another company ?

seems fairly obvious to me, I wouldn't want to do business of that nature to someone who has residency/passport of elsewhere.

funnily enough, mentioning Latvian's- my father is/was.

how about this for nationality then.

Born Latvia, grew up in Australia and has Aussie residency, passport (fled there during the war)

Lived here since late 60's: with permanent leave to remain.

had/has a current Aussie passport, as a Latvian, living in UK.


how the feck would you lease a car to him and know where he might actually live.

He might have driven it back to Latvia land, flog it to some Ruskies and never return !?!


UK customs held him once for about 4 hours trying to get their head around it, when coming back from holiday once !!!!

[TooMany2cvs]

Andy Zarse said:

So explain how can anyone who is non British possibly hold a British passport? Thus all foreigners excluded.

This is clearly saying if you hold a passport other than a British one then forget it; it is not saying forget it if you don't hold any passport.

You're reading "Non British passport holder" as "A holder of a non-British passport". Have you considered that it might mean "A non-holder of a British passport"?

[KFC]

Political correct nonsense.

OP, back in the real world, would you want to lease a car to some bloke from Ukraine with no real ties here and no chance whatsoever of you recovering any money if he goes home with the car and defaults?

[Meoricin]

TooMany2cvs said:

You're reading "Non British passport holder" as "A holder of a non-British passport". Have you considered that it might mean "A non-holder of a British passport"?

Your interpretation, as pointed out by others, is even wider than his - and still acts to exclude foreigners without dual nationality.

[TooMany2cvs]

KFC said:

Political correct nonsense.

OP, back in the real world, would you want to lease a car to some bloke from Ukraine with no real ties here and no chance whatsoever of you recovering any money if he goes home with the car and defaults?

If he's from the Ukraine, then he must've jumped through some hoops to be living and working here...

What's to say that somebody who IS British won't just ps off to the sun and leave you holding the baby?

[Pickled Piper]

austinsmirk said:

er- go to another company ?

seems fairly obvious to me, I wouldn't want to do business of that nature to someone who has residency/passport of elsewhere.

funnily enough, mentioning Latvian's- my father is/was.

how about this for nationality then.

Born Latvia, grew up in Australia and has Aussie residency, passport (fled there during the war)

Lived here since late 60's: with permanent leave to remain.

had/has a current Aussie passport, as a Latvian, living in UK.


how the feck would you lease a car to him and know where he might actually live.

He might have driven it back to Latvia land, flog it to some Ruskies and never return !?!


UK customs held him once for about 4 hours trying to get their head around it, when coming back from holiday once !!!!

Partly correct. However the lease co will issue you with a letter confirming you are the registered hirer. This is so that Plod overseas can ascertain that you are legitimately driving the vehicle that you do not own, and have not stolen it.

[TooMany2cvs]

austinsmirk said:

how about this for nationality then.

had/has a current Aussie passport

Simple. He's an Aussie. He has an Aussie passport, he's an Aussie. He may well be an Aussie with ILR in the UK, but he's an Aussie. If he was Latvian, he wouldn't need ILR, because he'd be an EU national.

[KFC]

TooMany2cvs said:

If he's from the Ukraine, then he must've jumped through some hoops to be living and working here...

Or he could be one of the 10's of thousands of illegal immigrants.

TooMany2cvs said:

What's to say that somebody who IS British won't just ps off to the sun and leave you holding the baby?

They might do. I'm a Brit who's moved out of UK. I suppose I could have financed a car and ran off with it when I left.

If it was your car and your money, would you rather give finance to Barry who's lived in Birmingham all his life, or Bogdan who arrived from Bulgaria last summer and has no real ties here?

If I went into a local car dealership here, common sense would tell me I shouldn't expect the same treatment as locals as I'm far more likely to leave the country. And once I'm gone, enforcing payment is going to be basically impossible.

[TooMany2cvs]

KFC said:

I'm a Brit who's moved out of UK.

Too many immigrants here for your liking?