Discussion
TooMany2cvs said:
Spend five grand to defend a one grand claim - and deter nine other similar claims.
Doesn't work like that as I'm sure you are aware. All companies hate litigating over small sums of money. They nearly always settle (well over 90%) of times. Usually if you refuse to settle they will pay up whatever to not have to go to court. Various other tactics can be used to make them sweat - demand documents they don't want to give out etc...
Big companies, instruct commercial solicitors to deal with stuff like this. Who instruct expensive barristers. There is no way they would go to court over a grand... Even if they were guaranteed to win! Which in this case they are not...
That's not internet BS - I've got a stack of money out of companies settling when they have wronged me. That has ranged from selling my information illegally, to failing to do there job properly causing me a loss. My claims were all at best legally questionable, and not sure fire winners for me. But I've never lost. So I speak from experience.
EDIT - I'll caveat that with don't use these techniques with the police or the NHS. They are more than happy to litigate if they need to. Rarely will the Police or NHS cave in if you sue them, unless they are in the wrong. From my reading they often litigate when they should not... Which in itself is pretty disturbing.
Edited by photosnob on Monday 18th May 19:26
Without a main dealer history you'll nearly always struggle for good will from the manufacturer. There's so many bulletins for cars to be checked for this, that and the other which only go to main dealers so an indi won't do them.
Did you agree for the vehicle to be repaired?
I do agree that it is very poor for the gearbox needing to be rebuilt at such a low miles/age!
Did you agree for the vehicle to be repaired?
I do agree that it is very poor for the gearbox needing to be rebuilt at such a low miles/age!
Funkycoldribena said:
Amazing how much b
ks gets spouted in these type of threads,two thirds to go to court??,tough because he didn't get it serviced by Fiat?? Fiat would of picked up on it and replaced it during servicing? Yeah right....
You are correct:ks gets spouted in these type of threads,two thirds to go to court??,tough because he didn't get it serviced by Fiat?? Fiat would of picked up on it and replaced it during servicing? Yeah right....https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/cour...
No solicitor required. In the event of the OP winning the other side pay these, or them agreeing to settle the case in mitigation you can ask for fees on top.
There are other court fees - which again you get back if the OP wins.
Costs for the other side are nearly NEVER awarded. Unless the whole case was a try on. In this case I'd pay them if the OP has costs awarded against him... Indeed I don't think it would go to court.
Anyway - what has the OP got to lose? It's a £70 punt at this stage to see how much he can get back. If he needs to go to court it's another £110 (from memory). Which again he can get back if he wins. The smart move would be to put in a part 36 offer in for 75% of the claim.... But the OP needs to decide what he wants to do before he needs technical advice.
Funkycoldribena said:
Amazing how much bks gets spouted in these type of threads,two thirds to go to court??,tough because he didn't get it serviced by Fiat?? Fiat would of picked up on it and replaced it during servicing? Yeah right....
Nobody said it would have been picked up by a main dealer during a service?ks gets spouted in these type of threads,two thirds to go to court??,tough because he didn't get it serviced by Fiat?? Fiat would of picked up on it and replaced it during servicing? Yeah right....I found myself in the position of having a Clio 197 that was 6mths outside it's 3yr warranty with a failing synchro. I didn't have a full dealer service history but Renault, eventually, coughed for 75% of the rebuild cost (about £2k).
It took some fight to get that, and SOGA would have been my last resort if I hadn't. The general consensus I got at the time was that there was a reasonable chance of success under SOGA but it would be far from easy task.
Good luck with it though. Speaking from experience it's a turd situation to be in (mine was in bits and they were refusing to put it back together unless I coughed up) It was 6 weeks in the end.
It took some fight to get that, and SOGA would have been my last resort if I hadn't. The general consensus I got at the time was that there was a reasonable chance of success under SOGA but it would be far from easy task.
Good luck with it though. Speaking from experience it's a turd situation to be in (mine was in bits and they were refusing to put it back together unless I coughed up) It was 6 weeks in the end.
Sheepshanks said:
Sir Bagalot said:
Even if you go to court with a solicitor what's the best you achieve? Two thirds? You'll spend at least that getting there.
Using the small claims court online service costs a nominal amount - £70 to claim £1200. If you're simply going to pay £70 and that's it then you have lost already. The car is out of warranty Period.
You will need the opinions of experts if claiming the parts should of lasted longer, and that will cost money. The Court fee is more money. On top of that OP will never get a full refund, only a %.
Lots of people shout "Small Claims" but they're usually the ones who haven't been there. Courts operate on points of law, not opinions or principles.
WongJr said:
I had a similar problem with my 500, with only 20000 miles on it. Something was up with first gear and it ended up with the gearbox needing to be reconditioned.
IANAL so i'm just suggesting this as a way to argue. considering the above comment, it may pay you to google and ask if other people have had similar issues?it may lead credence to your argument that 24k is laughably low for bearings to go in a gearbox.
as an aside, having known a lead mechanic in a land rover dealership and listened to what he said had happened in the group of garages (multiple brands) that occupied the site he was on, i have my cars done by a guy who has been a self employed mechanic for 30+ years and gets work by recommendation only. some of the stories would make your toes curl.
I've got a 500, no problems with the gearbox but, I have read of others having issues. This forum here: http://www.fiatforum.com/500/ is the place to go. Have a dig, start a thread and gather some evidence.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Sir Bagalot said:
Agreed. But that's just the beginning.
If you're simply going to pay £70 and that's it then you have lost already. The car is out of warranty Period.
You will need the opinions of experts if claiming the parts should of lasted longer, and that will cost money. The Court fee is more money. On top of that OP will never get a full refund, only a %.
Lots of people shout "Small Claims" but they're usually the ones who haven't been there. Courts operate on points of law, not opinions or principles.
It shouldn't be messy as, in law, the warranty is irrelevant - hence the phrase you'll often see that the warranty/guarantee "is in addition to your statutory rights."If you're simply going to pay £70 and that's it then you have lost already. The car is out of warranty Period.
You will need the opinions of experts if claiming the parts should of lasted longer, and that will cost money. The Court fee is more money. On top of that OP will never get a full refund, only a %.
Lots of people shout "Small Claims" but they're usually the ones who haven't been there. Courts operate on points of law, not opinions or principles.
You statutory rights are set out in various consumer related legislation, mainly the Sale of Goods Act. So you can reference points of law there.
Edited by Sheepshanks on Tuesday 19th May 17:04
Sheepshanks said:
It shouldn't be messy as, in law, the warranty is irrelevant - hence the phrase you'll often see that the warranty/guarantee "is in addition to your statutory rights."
You statutory rights are set out in various consumer related legislation, mainly the Sale of Goods Act. So you can reference points of law there.
In these 'statutory rights' situations, is the burden on the claimant to show that there have been other reported bearing failures on Fiat 500 cars, therefore it's a know defect. Or on the defendant to show that there are thousands of other Fiat 500, Panda and Mito versions driving well beyond 24k miles using the same parts which have not suffered a failure, therefore there is sufficient doubt to show that it could isolated occurrences due to poor driving or poor maintenance?You statutory rights are set out in various consumer related legislation, mainly the Sale of Goods Act. So you can reference points of law there.
Vx1275 said:
12 plate Fiat 500,24,000miles,just a week outside of warranty and its required new Gearbox bearings with parts and labour now totaling £1200. The garage has refused any-form of goodwill as the vehicle was fully serviced independently and this apparently shows a lack of loyalty to the brand, and Fiat UK have followed suit! Any advice on what i could do? or any future procedures?? Thanks in advance
You must do a lot of driving to put 50,024,000 miles in only 3 years!The courts deal with what is fair and reasonable , despite what other nay sayers have implied it is not fair and reasonable for a gearbox to last 24k and 3 years
There was another guy previously with a Skoda which engine expired and he was able to secure a significant contribution from Skoda despite them initially refusing to make any contribution
You wont get away without paying anything but a well worded letter reminding them of their obligations under the Sales of Goods act might work wonders.
There was another guy previously with a Skoda which engine expired and he was able to secure a significant contribution from Skoda despite them initially refusing to make any contribution
You wont get away without paying anything but a well worded letter reminding them of their obligations under the Sales of Goods act might work wonders.
liner33 said:
The courts deal with what is fair and reasonable , despite what other nay sayers have implied it is not fair and reasonable for a gearbox to last 24k and 3 years
There was another guy previously with a Skoda which engine expired and he was able to secure a significant contribution from Skoda despite them initially refusing to make any contribution
You wont get away without paying anything but a well worded letter reminding them of their obligations under the Sales of Goods act might work wonders.
I agree with this.There was another guy previously with a Skoda which engine expired and he was able to secure a significant contribution from Skoda despite them initially refusing to make any contribution
You wont get away without paying anything but a well worded letter reminding them of their obligations under the Sales of Goods act might work wonders.
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