Small numberplate font

Author
Discussion

Roo

11,503 posts

206 months

Monday 25th May 2015
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GrumpyV8 said:
The recess on the front bumper of my 2006 Monaro VZ is 38.5 cm in width. Standard number plates require screwing into the front bumper at either end and there is no support of said plate in between and behind these screws. As a result the number plate 'bows' outwards. A reduction of the actual plate width will still enable correct sizing and spacing of characters and enable better security fixing of plate. I am also given to understand the Monaro was not given EU wide type approval as it was only imported into the UK from Australia. Any better brains able to comment please?
Is it a UK supplied car with UK type approval?

If yes it needs a standard size UK plate.

Melchett

809 posts

185 months

Monday 25th May 2015
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Roo said:
Is it a UK supplied car with UK type approval?

If yes it needs a standard size UK plate.
There are no Monaros or VXR8 that have European whole vehicle type approval, regardless of where they are sourced. UK supplied Ros and R8s have UK Low volume type approval as per VCA requirements, this is completely different to EU type approval. Therefore it is legit to have 'import' plates on these cars.

Roo

11,503 posts

206 months

Monday 25th May 2015
quotequote all
Melchett said:
There are no Monaros or VXR8 that have European whole vehicle type approval, regardless of where they are sourced. UK supplied Ros and R8s have UK Low volume type approval as per VCA requirements, this is completely different to EU type approval. Therefore it is legit to have 'import' plates on these cars.
I'd be interested to see the page from the VCA manual that gives whole UK type approval to a low volume manufacturer and allows them to use a non type approved registration character.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Monday 25th May 2015
quotequote all
Melchett said:
There are no Monaros or VXR8 that have European whole vehicle type approval, regardless of where they are sourced. UK supplied Ros and R8s have UK Low volume type approval as per VCA requirements, this is completely different to EU type approval. Therefore it is legit to have 'import' plates on these cars.
No, it isn't - because you forgot the bit about "precluding" fitting a normal size plate.

Red Devil

13,055 posts

207 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
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tapereel said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Red Devil said:
tapereel said:
A court may consider this question "does the shape and construction of the car make it impossible to fit a standard size UK registration plate?" Their answer must surely be NO
I disagree. The court has to start from the position of whether the car is as the manufacturer constructed it.
Got any kind of precedent or authoritative source for that, other than wishful thinking?
I agree; a court must start with what is written in the legislation. Unless the legislation has ambiguity there is no need to go beyond what is written.
The court certainly will not start to invent wording unless it is required to and there is no provision in law or its interpretation for making up a starting position beyond reading what the law says first.
Does the law say "as the manufacturer constructed it"? If not then that isn't the starting position.
The law doesn't specifically mention the word manufacturer, but this is what The Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) (Amendment) Regulations 2002 paragraph 14A(1)(b) says:

is so constructed that the area available for the fixing of the registration plate precludes the display on the plate of a registration mark in conformity with the requirements of regulation 14.

It would be perverse to contend that this can logically be interpreted as anything other than 'as it came off the production line'. Otherwise why would Parliament have gone to all the trouble of amending the 2001 Regs in the way it did? If it had intended that such vehicles must be adapted to use normal UK format plates by means of brackets/spacers it would have said so.

tapereel said:
Edited to add: I can't think why a vehicle could not have a plate that would have the size and spacing correct.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. It's quite clear: provided the requirements of sub paragraphs (1)(a) AND (1)(b) are met, certain vehicles can use the reduced dimensions. The amended Regs were specifically introduced after concerted lobbying by importers of American and JDM vehicles.

tapereel said:
If you can sit a person in the car there must be sufficient room to fit a plate that has the correct size and spacing for the characters.
I have no idea what this has to do with the price of fish. Please clarify as it appears to me to be a classic non sequitur.

I have no issue with vehicles having a smaller plate when it is lawful to do so. What many people fail to understand is that the legislation does NOT specify what size the backing plate must be. If you have a 5 character VRM there is nothing to stop you having a reduced size custom plate made up provided that it still conforms to the allowable size/spacing of characters and borders.

wolves_wanderer

12,356 posts

236 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
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Jagmanv12 said:
TooMany2cvs said:
There is no way I would fit a plate obstructing the air intake. It would be asking for overheating problems. If it meant fitting an illegally sized plate then I would.
[pic] [/pic]

That was my solution. I think it looked better than with a massive numberplate over the grille.

Ikemi

8,438 posts

204 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
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hora said:
Boydie88 said:
I use one on the front of my VX220 after losing 2 normal size ones to speed bumps. Never been pulled over.
Obvious need in your case.
I did the same with my S2, as I kept knocked the full size plate off ...



It also looked a lot better with a smaller plate; the full size plate is a bit overpowering on an Elise! It does act as a 'clam protector' though, albeit it's a pain when gets knocked off!


GroundEffect

13,815 posts

155 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
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wolves_wanderer said:
Jagmanv12 said:
TooMany2cvs said:
There is no way I would fit a plate obstructing the air intake. It would be asking for overheating problems. If it meant fitting an illegally sized plate then I would.
[pic] [/pic]

That was my solution. I think it looked better than with a massive numberplate over the grille.
Y'know that the manufacturers do CFD/tunnel testing WITH the number plate in place? wink

Hol

8,356 posts

199 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
quotequote all

Interestingly (or uninterestingly, if you find it of little importance) both of my brand new fresh Import JDM spec Impreza's (1999 & 2004) had full sized plates fitted for the SVA test and before they were delivered to me.

Both cars had the rear jap square plate retainers left in place, with oblong plates fitted over the top and the tangs poking out the bottom.








TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
quotequote all
Hol said:
Interestingly (or uninterestingly, if you find it of little importance) both of my brand new fresh Import JDM spec Impreza's (1999 & 2004) had full sized plates fitted for the SVA test and before they were delivered to me.

Both cars had the rear jap square plate retainers left in place, with oblong plates fitted over the top and the tangs poking out the bottom.
Which kinda proves the design does not preclude their fitment.

wolves_wanderer

12,356 posts

236 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
quotequote all
GroundEffect said:
wolves_wanderer said:
Jagmanv12 said:
TooMany2cvs said:
There is no way I would fit a plate obstructing the air intake. It would be asking for overheating problems. If it meant fitting an illegally sized plate then I would.
[pic] [/pic]

That was my solution. I think it looked better than with a massive numberplate over the grille.
Y'know that the manufacturers do CFD/tunnel testing WITH the number plate in place? wink
You must also realise that no matter how many millions a manufacturer spends, it can always be improved with some stick-on tat from Halfords? wink

Hol

8,356 posts

199 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
Hol said:
Interestingly (or uninterestingly, if you find it of little importance) both of my brand new fresh Import JDM spec Impreza's (1999 & 2004) had full sized plates fitted for the SVA test and before they were delivered to me.

Both cars had the rear jap square plate retainers left in place, with oblong plates fitted over the top and the tangs poking out the bottom.
Which kinda proves the design does not preclude their fitment.
It was 11 years ago, since that last one, so I guess its the case, unless something significant changed between the old SVA rules and the newer IVA rules. (IVA rules actually being stricter, than the old SVA - according to Kit car forums).

Of course, it 'could' just be that it was easier/simpler/cheaper for the SVA company to pop down the road to Burt's Autoparts and grab a set of UK plates, than same size JDM ones.











Melchett

809 posts

185 months

Tuesday 26th May 2015
quotequote all
Roo said:
I'd be interested to see the page from the VCA manual that gives whole UK type approval to a low volume manufacturer and allows them to use a non type approved registration character.
Type approval does not specify any requirements or provisions for registration marks, that is done under the UK statutory instruments. Whole vehicle UK type approval has not existed for about 20yrs and is completely different to UK low volume approval which itself has not existed since the re-jigging of 2009. The equivalent low volume requirements that are in force today are covered under European Community Small Series Type Approval (EC SSTA). More info here: http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca//vehicletype/ec-small-se...

The link with import plates that I was eluding to is that the Monaro and VXR8 do not have European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval. Therefore, as already mentioned in previous posts, where this is the case AND if the construction of the vehicle precludes the fixation of a 'nromal' plate then you can have a slightly smaller plate.

The grey area is arguing that the construction of the vehicle precludes fitment of a normal plate. I hope this is useful.