Speed awareness worth doing?
Discussion
I did one about three years ago in Southampton, It was run by the AA. Large chunks of it were propaganda, just plain wrong and / or drivel.
The course was full of loaded questions. We were polled on what we thought might be reasons for speeding, then later asked if any of these reasons were suitable excuses should we find ourselves in front of a judge having killed someone through excess speed. I did point out that exactly the same argument could be applied to driving whilst tired, not paying attention, driving within the limit but not at an appropriate speed. I wanted to point out that the appropriate question is one of risk versus reward since their outcome is extremely unlikely especially if speed is used with care, but they cut me off.
They also cut me off when I called BS to the instructor's assertion that driving in a low gear gives the same economy as driving in a higher gear. The woman (ex ambulance driver)had no clue whatsoever and was just sprouting whatever piffle she'd been fed. She was ignorant, condescending and counter productive - you could see people in the room glazing over when she spoke.
There were two instructors on the course, the gent was much better.
Did I learn anything? Yes. I wasn't aware of the idea of dropping a cog in a 30 zone in order to help keep your speed down. It genuinely helps with both throttle responsiveness (well, of course) and audible feedback.
The course was full of loaded questions. We were polled on what we thought might be reasons for speeding, then later asked if any of these reasons were suitable excuses should we find ourselves in front of a judge having killed someone through excess speed. I did point out that exactly the same argument could be applied to driving whilst tired, not paying attention, driving within the limit but not at an appropriate speed. I wanted to point out that the appropriate question is one of risk versus reward since their outcome is extremely unlikely especially if speed is used with care, but they cut me off.
They also cut me off when I called BS to the instructor's assertion that driving in a low gear gives the same economy as driving in a higher gear. The woman (ex ambulance driver)had no clue whatsoever and was just sprouting whatever piffle she'd been fed. She was ignorant, condescending and counter productive - you could see people in the room glazing over when she spoke.
There were two instructors on the course, the gent was much better.
Did I learn anything? Yes. I wasn't aware of the idea of dropping a cog in a 30 zone in order to help keep your speed down. It genuinely helps with both throttle responsiveness (well, of course) and audible feedback.
I did it to keep the points off. I was also determined to learn something (which I did), but it was hard work.
I am just mentally ill-equipped to deal with either stuff that is wrong or stuff trotted out that has logical holes (nay chasms). The instructor was a condescending knob. He started with some stats showing the KSIs in the UK and how much better they were in the UK than Germany. Then it all fell apart. His explanation of this was that Germany has unrestricted autobahns which stayed unrestricted because of the German sports car manufacturers' influence. I asked him if he had any backing for that which of course he didn't.
We then later learnt that motorways were the safest roads, so I asked again, in that case how are the German autobahns responsible for the higher KSIs in Germany. He got out his best put-down at that point - what would I know about it as if I was that clever, I wouldn't be on the course. I then asked him if could help us to work out when he was telling us proper info and when he was talking b
ks. He said I would have to leave if I carried on being obstructive. I was really making myself unpopular with my fellow course-mates by this time, so I shut up a bit.
When we were doing the "oh my look how fast you are going at 40, when the 30 mph car has stopped" bit, I couldn't resist and asked him how to work out the correct speed for the circumstances as he kept harping on about the speed limits. He didn't want to answer, but in the end I got him to talk about being able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear, planning, hazards all that normal driving stuff!
So my summary: He was a complete knob, I was a complete knob (nothing new there then) and everyone else got annoyed.
Bit like a normal day in SP&L I reckon
Have fun on the course (but not too much)!
Bert
I am just mentally ill-equipped to deal with either stuff that is wrong or stuff trotted out that has logical holes (nay chasms). The instructor was a condescending knob. He started with some stats showing the KSIs in the UK and how much better they were in the UK than Germany. Then it all fell apart. His explanation of this was that Germany has unrestricted autobahns which stayed unrestricted because of the German sports car manufacturers' influence. I asked him if he had any backing for that which of course he didn't.
We then later learnt that motorways were the safest roads, so I asked again, in that case how are the German autobahns responsible for the higher KSIs in Germany. He got out his best put-down at that point - what would I know about it as if I was that clever, I wouldn't be on the course. I then asked him if could help us to work out when he was telling us proper info and when he was talking b
ks. He said I would have to leave if I carried on being obstructive. I was really making myself unpopular with my fellow course-mates by this time, so I shut up a bit.When we were doing the "oh my look how fast you are going at 40, when the 30 mph car has stopped" bit, I couldn't resist and asked him how to work out the correct speed for the circumstances as he kept harping on about the speed limits. He didn't want to answer, but in the end I got him to talk about being able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear, planning, hazards all that normal driving stuff!
So my summary: He was a complete knob, I was a complete knob (nothing new there then) and everyone else got annoyed.
Bit like a normal day in SP&L I reckon
Have fun on the course (but not too much)!
Bert
I had my course in Skipton
Had a few like minded individuals on my table
Usual we know best attitude. And in real terms it was easier to do the course than the points.
Overall it was an easy morning. Pleasent surroundings. The instructors were both decent people
They had an informative attitude, rather than ramming it down our throats as some seemed to have had experaiance of.
They even accepted for some the course will not change their ways.
But what they did try and emphasis is that many dont actually know the speed limits in certain situations.
As such they showed some obvious and non obvious scenarios.
I wouldnt say it has changed my driving. But i would say the course set up where i went was done well
The people on my table i got lucky with, so had some banter ad the usual chat about why we were all unlucky to get caught
Had a few like minded individuals on my table
Usual we know best attitude. And in real terms it was easier to do the course than the points.
Overall it was an easy morning. Pleasent surroundings. The instructors were both decent people
They had an informative attitude, rather than ramming it down our throats as some seemed to have had experaiance of.
They even accepted for some the course will not change their ways.
But what they did try and emphasis is that many dont actually know the speed limits in certain situations.
As such they showed some obvious and non obvious scenarios.
I wouldnt say it has changed my driving. But i would say the course set up where i went was done well
The people on my table i got lucky with, so had some banter ad the usual chat about why we were all unlucky to get caught
mikeveal said:
Did I learn anything? Yes. I wasn't aware of the idea of dropping a cog in a 30 zone in order to help keep your speed down. It genuinely helps with both throttle responsiveness (well, of course) and audible feedback.
That's an age thing. It's come about now 5 and 6 speed boxes are common so there's no sense of needing to be in 'top' like there used to be with 4 speed boxes.
My kids had the same driving instructor and they were taught to drive in 3rd at 30. Older one ignores it (and has been caught at 36) but younger daughter sticks to it, even though her 3 cyl 1.1 Colt is perfectly happy in 5th at 30.
I did an awareness course this time last year. Pretty dull, but there were a few interesting bits included so I didn't feel as though it was entirely useless. Definitely preferable to taking the points having done a few test insurance quotes on the comparison websites.
The most frustrating thing was having to listen to other participants regale the group with utterly irrelevant and tedious stories about things that have happened to them whilst driving - each story seemed to persuade another mouth breather to share another in some kind of st story top trumps game, meaning it took a fair bit longer than it should have!
The most frustrating thing was having to listen to other participants regale the group with utterly irrelevant and tedious stories about things that have happened to them whilst driving - each story seemed to persuade another mouth breather to share another in some kind of s
t story top trumps game, meaning it took a fair bit longer than it should have! okgo said:
Caught doing 70 on the M25 when apparently there was a 60 limit in place? Didn't even notice to be honest.
What are these awareness things like? Is it a day off work? If I don't do that is it just 3 pointer for that sort of speed do you think?
I cant really be doing with taking time off working fking about somewhere for a whole day if that is what it is, rather just take a small hit and get on with things.
In my opinion a 4 hour speed Awareness Course at £85 if a better option than 3 points and a £100 fine.SAC are available in the evenings and weekends.What are these awareness things like? Is it a day off work? If I don't do that is it just 3 pointer for that sort of speed do you think?
I cant really be doing with taking time off working f
king about somewhere for a whole day if that is what it is, rather just take a small hit and get on with things.It looks like you would rather take the 3 points and thats fine but what happens when you dont notice again and are on 12 points and a ban.
Its your choice a SAC or 3 points,£100 fine and a visit to Specsavers to help you driving awareness.
okgo said:
Caught doing 70 on the M25 when apparently there was a 60 limit in place? Didn't even notice to be honest.
There is only one stretch in Kent where there is a permanent 60 limit.It's actually on the A282 Dartford Crossing toll road not the M25.
How did you manage to miss these signs?
Northbound - https://goo.gl/pdXKTb
Southbound - https://goo.gl/WKY7GZ
As one SP30 is unlikely to make much impact on my insurance I would decline.
If I was
Think strategically:
- Previous driving history is not taken into account when making the offer.
- The 3 year ineligibility period only applies if you have been on one already.
http://www.driver-improvement.co.uk/index.php/home...
I did a SAC just over 3 years ago.
I thought it was best to use it as a "get out of jail free" card even though at that time the SAC was £25 more than the fine.
Two lecturers, one was an ex traffic cop and was actually very interesting and spoke from real life experience. He had some harrowing stories of accidents that he didn't blame on speed BUT explained the impact excessive speed had on the accident and injuries sustained.
The second was a "if you speed anytime anywhere you'll kill children and go to hell" type person who spouted made up facts for an hour.
The most interesting part was that you get to learn how utterly unaware of speed/driving/braking/road laws etc the majority of the other attendees are! I learnt a valuable lesson, do not assume anyone else on the road can actually drive! There were 40 people on my course and I was the only one who could draw a stop sign or a give way sign.
I thought it was best to use it as a "get out of jail free" card even though at that time the SAC was £25 more than the fine.
Two lecturers, one was an ex traffic cop and was actually very interesting and spoke from real life experience. He had some harrowing stories of accidents that he didn't blame on speed BUT explained the impact excessive speed had on the accident and injuries sustained.
The second was a "if you speed anytime anywhere you'll kill children and go to hell" type person who spouted made up facts for an hour.
The most interesting part was that you get to learn how utterly unaware of speed/driving/braking/road laws etc the majority of the other attendees are! I learnt a valuable lesson, do not assume anyone else on the road can actually drive! There were 40 people on my course and I was the only one who could draw a stop sign or a give way sign.
Red Devil said:
There is only one stretch in Kent where there is a permanent 60 limit.
It's actually on the A282 Dartford Crossing toll road not the M25.
How did you manage to miss these signs?
Northbound - https://goo.gl/pdXKTb
Southbound - https://goo.gl/WKY7GZ
Or it could've been on the managed motorway section.It's actually on the A282 Dartford Crossing toll road not the M25.
How did you manage to miss these signs?
Northbound - https://goo.gl/pdXKTb
Southbound - https://goo.gl/WKY7GZ
mikeveal said:
I did one about three years ago in Southampton, It was run by the AA. Large chunks of it were propaganda, just plain wrong and / or drivel.
The course was full of loaded questions. We were polled on what we thought might be reasons for speeding, then later asked if any of these reasons were suitable excuses should we find ourselves in front of a judge having killed someone through excess speed. I did point out that exactly the same argument could be applied to driving whilst tired, not paying attention, driving within the limit but not at an appropriate speed. I wanted to point out that the appropriate question is one of risk versus reward since their outcome is extremely unlikely especially if speed is used with care, but they cut me off.
They also cut me off when I called BS to the instructor's assertion that driving in a low gear gives the same economy as driving in a higher gear. The woman (ex ambulance driver)had no clue whatsoever and was just sprouting whatever piffle she'd been fed. She was ignorant, condescending and counter productive - you could see people in the room glazing over when she spoke.
There were two instructors on the course, the gent was much better.
Did I learn anything? Yes. I wasn't aware of the idea of dropping a cog in a 30 zone in order to help keep your speed down. It genuinely helps with both throttle responsiveness (well, of course) and audible feedback.
Sounds just like mine, other than it was two blokes.The course was full of loaded questions. We were polled on what we thought might be reasons for speeding, then later asked if any of these reasons were suitable excuses should we find ourselves in front of a judge having killed someone through excess speed. I did point out that exactly the same argument could be applied to driving whilst tired, not paying attention, driving within the limit but not at an appropriate speed. I wanted to point out that the appropriate question is one of risk versus reward since their outcome is extremely unlikely especially if speed is used with care, but they cut me off.
They also cut me off when I called BS to the instructor's assertion that driving in a low gear gives the same economy as driving in a higher gear. The woman (ex ambulance driver)had no clue whatsoever and was just sprouting whatever piffle she'd been fed. She was ignorant, condescending and counter productive - you could see people in the room glazing over when she spoke.
There were two instructors on the course, the gent was much better.
Did I learn anything? Yes. I wasn't aware of the idea of dropping a cog in a 30 zone in order to help keep your speed down. It genuinely helps with both throttle responsiveness (well, of course) and audible feedback.
One scenario was a slide of an accident and what could of been done to avoid it.
A vehicle had drove over the brow of a hill at the correct speed limit and there was a right turn 100m over the top. Second vehicle had stopped waiting to turn right and the first vehicle went straight into the back of it pushing it over the road directly into the path of oncoming traffic resulting in serious injuries all round. So we went through the normal malarkey of slowing down etc but the instructors default answer shocked me. He said the best thing to of done in this situation would of been for the car turning right to have stopped at the brow and wait for a gap in oncoming traffic before proceeding to move forward and turn right. Remember the turning is 100m away so you best know how fast your car accelerates and hope the traffic is very light or you may be there for a while
Can't imagine the queuing traffic would be best pleased too.tony wright said:
...but the instructors default answer shocked me. He said the best thing to of done in this situation would of been for the car turning right to have stopped at the brow and wait for a gap in oncoming traffic before proceeding to move forward and turn right. Remember the turning is 100m away so you best know how fast your car accelerates and hope the traffic is very light or you may be there for a while Can't imagine the queuing traffic would be best pleased too.
That is the right answer and it's a really important message in defensive driving - take control of the situation yourself. Don't sit at the right turn with your fingers crossed hoping to God some muppet doesn't come flying over the brow. Can't imagine the queuing traffic would be best pleased too.Once the traffic has stopped behind you, then you can take it forward at your own speed and make your right turn.
Roo said:
Or it could've been on the managed motorway section.
It says on the slip that it was by Clackett Lane.Some irony in getting caught on a 5 lane road doing the exact speed it was designed for, it wasn't busy either. Pathetic, the whole thing.
I'll see what they say as I've only just scanned back the sheet confirming I was driving etc.
I do find it odd though, they sent this letter saying they had already sent one, I have never seen this alleged first letter, because apparently they only have 14 days to do something about it. I rang them up and the bloke said that on his system it was done in that time, but it made no difference that the letter didn't get to me. I said to him I found it totally bizarre that a fairly important and time sensitive document would be sent 2nd or 1st class non recorded and left at the will of the brain dead postman I seem to have. He said nothing, just made some noise.
Sheepshanks said:
That would have endeared you to him.
It's the law (or at least a court procedure rule) that a notice is considered served 24hrs after putting it into 1st class post.
Obviously I didn't say that on the phone.It's the law (or at least a court procedure rule) that a notice is considered served 24hrs after putting it into 1st class post.
Well that is frankly an absurd law. Putting trust into a huge system which frequently lose things to serve an important notice.
Sheepshanks said:
tony wright said:
...but the instructors default answer shocked me. He said the best thing to of done in this situation would of been for the car turning right to have stopped at the brow and wait for a gap in oncoming traffic before proceeding to move forward and turn right. Remember the turning is 100m away so you best know how fast your car accelerates and hope the traffic is very light or you may be there for a while Can't imagine the queuing traffic would be best pleased too.
That is the right answer and it's a really important message in defensive driving - take control of the situation yourself. Don't sit at the right turn with your fingers crossed hoping to God some muppet doesn't come flying over the brow. Can't imagine the queuing traffic would be best pleased too.Once the traffic has stopped behind you, then you can take it forward at your own speed and make your right turn.
Roo said:
Red Devil said:
There is only one stretch in Kent where there is a permanent 60 limit.
It's actually on the A282 Dartford Crossing toll road not the M25.
How did you manage to miss these signs?
Northbound - https://goo.gl/pdXKTb
Southbound - https://goo.gl/WKY7GZ
Or it could've been on the managed motorway section.It's actually on the A282 Dartford Crossing toll road not the M25.
How did you manage to miss these signs?
Northbound - https://goo.gl/pdXKTb
Southbound - https://goo.gl/WKY7GZ
okgo said:
It says on the slip that it was by Clackett Lane.
Some irony in getting caught on a 5 lane road doing the exact speed it was designed for, it wasn't busy either. Pathetic, the whole thing.
Quite, but then if you reckon it's a 5 lane road maybe your observation skills are a bit rusty - https://goo.gl/4NpQ08 - Some irony in getting caught on a 5 lane road doing the exact speed it was designed for, it wasn't busy either. Pathetic, the whole thing.
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