Speed awareness worth doing?

Speed awareness worth doing?

Author
Discussion

covboy

2,573 posts

173 months

Tuesday 28th July 2015
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Dog Star said:
Same here - but at 79.50 it was 20 cheaper than the fine. (Bury, Lancs) For me it was a bargain - I'd pay a grand to keep 3 points off.

I can honestly say that I quite enjoyed it and didn't regard it as a waste of time at all; sure there was propaganda type stuff but it was a useful refresher.

The two instructors (both driving instructors) were good fun and they did point out that Admiral now ask about SACs and to simply ask them if they were going to load the premium as a result of an SAC - if they did then simply take your business elsewhere.
I had this on my course except the instructor said he wasn't allowed to tell us it was the Admiral group !biggrin (same advice though)

As above I found the course useful. Picked up a few tips - learned something and refreshed a lot more - Wasn't preached at etc etc

mygoldfishbowl

3,691 posts

142 months

Tuesday 28th July 2015
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tapereel said:
mygoldfishbowl said:
^^ I thought the cut off speed for being offered a course was 86 so maybe she was fibbing.
...and that will be the same sort of source the instructor had for the TV police issuing tickets and SAC offers at 32mph in a 32mph limit.
But you seam to sometimes fib as well. Hadecs 3 for example.

jogger1976

1,251 posts

125 months

Tuesday 28th July 2015
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To be honest, the attitude of some of the posters on here is bordering on pretty arrogant, with an "I know best" "you can't tell me what to do" attitude. I'd wager that might reflect their style of driving, although I'm sure they'd deny this.scratchchin
Why not just go there and suck it up and admit you made a mistake, rather than arguing the toss and playing the big man with the instructors. Oh, and perhaps reflect that the above arrogant attitudes might have got you there in the first place. wink

BertBert

18,953 posts

210 months

Tuesday 28th July 2015
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Dog Star said:
if they did then simply take your business elsewhere.
That's daft advice though surely? There's no point in being picky on how they load the premium. All that matters is the absolute cost against what service they offer. Is it what you want and is it cheaper than elsewhere.
Bert

TwigtheWonderkid

43,248 posts

149 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
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BertBert said:
Dog Star said:
if they did then simply take your business elsewhere.
That's daft advice though surely? There's no point in being picky on how they load the premium. All that matters is the absolute cost against what service they offer. Is it what you want and is it cheaper than elsewhere.
Bert
Exactly right. Wouldn't bother me if my insurers charged me extra for being left handed or bald, so long as their premium was competitive and the Ts & Cs suited my requirements.

mikeveal

4,557 posts

249 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
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jogger1976 said:
To be honest, the attitude of some of the posters on here is bordering on pretty arrogant, with an "I know best" "you can't tell me what to do" attitude. I'd wager that might reflect their style of driving, although I'm sure they'd deny this.scratchchin
Why not just go there and suck it up and admit you made a mistake, rather than arguing the toss and playing the big man with the instructors. Oh, and perhaps reflect that the above arrogant attitudes might have got you there in the first place. wink
That's a deliberately antagonistic comment if ever I saw one.
So 2+2=5 huh ? YMHTGT.



Edited by mikeveal on Wednesday 29th July 10:20

tr7v8

7,185 posts

227 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
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jogger1976 said:
To be honest, the attitude of some of the posters on here is bordering on pretty arrogant, with an "I know best" "you can't tell me what to do" attitude. I'd wager that might reflect their style of driving, although I'm sure they'd deny this.scratchchin
Why not just go there and suck it up and admit you made a mistake, rather than arguing the toss and playing the big man with the instructors. Oh, and perhaps reflect that the above arrogant attitudes might have got you there in the first place. wink
Only a tt who hasn't done the preaching "Think of the kittens & fluffy bunny rabbits & it isn't very ECO" type of Speed awareness course could write such st!
My first one was fine lady who was ex-Class 1 plod & ADI was great. The second was by two sanctimonious idiots from KCC who probably had a scout badge between them.
From the second two I'd never heard so much crap in my life, it was bloody painful. Next time I'll let the old duffer who was the reason I was there hit the car & close the motorway, rather than blip the throttle & get past. That was the mistake I made, a few mph over in a redundant contraflow average speed limit was fk all.

jogger1976

1,251 posts

125 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
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Oh dear, having a bad day, are we? I think you might need an anger management course as well as a speed awareness one smile

For you benefit, and also Mikeveal, when I got caught speeding - twice, yes I know, the shame! wink- I didn't have the luxury of a speed awareness course, because they didn't exist!

I had to suck up the the fine, points on my licence and increased insurance premiums and the first time, I had to listen to a lecture from Traffic Officer who caught me with a speed gun, so I'm well aware of the "think of the children" line.

However, I decided there and then that I was in the wrong, had been a bit of a tt and took the bking as a hard learned lesson along with the hit to my wallet.

I certainly didn't try to be all billy big boots to show what a big man I was to him or anyone else.

I guess I'll just have to accept I'll never be a powerfully built company director like you frowncryweeping


alock

4,224 posts

210 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
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Pete317 said:
Thanks for that.

In the summary it states "At an impact speed of 75 km/h, the fatality risk was estimated to approximately 50%".

This is massively different to the 80% die at 40mph line that is stated at these courses.

Still waiting for the correlation between speeding and impact speed to complete their argument though.

tr7v8

7,185 posts

227 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
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jogger1976 said:
Oh dear, having a bad day, are we? I think you might need an anger management course as well as a speed awareness one smile

For you benefit, and also Mikeveal, when I got caught speeding - twice, yes I know, the shame! wink- I didn't have the luxury of a speed awareness course, because they didn't exist!

I had to suck up the the fine, points on my licence and increased insurance premiums and the first time, I had to listen to a lecture from Traffic Officer who caught me with a speed gun, so I'm well aware of the "think of the children" line.

However, I decided there and then that I was in the wrong, had been a bit of a tt and took the bking as a hard learned lesson along with the hit to my wallet.

I certainly didn't try to be all billy big boots to show what a big man I was to him or anyone else.

I guess I'll just have to accept I'll never be a powerfully built company director like you frowncryweeping
Nope not a bad day, just reading st from someone who doesn't know what he's talking about. In 40 years & around 1.25 Million miles I've had 4 offences. 2 x SP30 or equivalent & 2 x SAC. I can remember them all & the circumstances. The first was in an old Ford Pop which struggled to 45MPH I was done by a Motorbiking cop for 39 in a 30. Ironically a road I used a lot which had changed from a 40 to a 30 a week before, Easy nick for plod but bang to rights. The second was in Swindon on an urban dual carriageway 50 in a 40, unknown area, cop with camera my mistake. The 1st SAC was for a Leeds camera 37 in a 30 my mistake I was tired after a long drive & was looking for a hotel & got distracted & the last was the redundant contraflow which I posted about. Not bad for someone who used to do 50-60 K per annum, all over the UK. The last SAC is the on;y one I had an issue with. But you seemingly would be happy to be preached at about eco driving & other non-relevant st if it was you.

BertBert

18,953 posts

210 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
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alock said:
Still waiting for the correlation between speeding and impact speed to complete their argument though.
But it's an irrelevance isn't it? Good driving is not based on "only hit people at 30 mph". It's based on don't fking hit people.

That's the premise of all the advanced driving, class 1 plod, all that stuff. On the course I went on, it took me virtually the whole course to drag that out of the instructor. He was so focussed on giving his speed is bad syllabus, he was not allowed to teach the other course he did which was how to drive more safely. What a terrible system.

Bert

jogger1976

1,251 posts

125 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
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tr7v8 said:
jogger1976 said:
Oh dear, having a bad day, are we? I think you might need an anger management course as well as a speed awareness one smile

For you benefit, and also Mikeveal, when I got caught speeding - twice, yes I know, the shame! wink- I didn't have the luxury of a speed awareness course, because they didn't exist!

I had to suck up the the fine, points on my licence and increased insurance premiums and the first time, I had to listen to a lecture from Traffic Officer who caught me with a speed gun, so I'm well aware of the "think of the children" line.

However, I decided there and then that I was in the wrong, had been a bit of a tt and took the bking as a hard learned lesson along with the hit to my wallet.

I certainly didn't try to be all billy big boots to show what a big man I was to him or anyone else.

I guess I'll just have to accept I'll never be a powerfully built company director like you frowncryweeping
Nope not a bad day, just reading st from someone who doesn't know what he's talking about. In 40 years & around 1.25 Million miles I've had 4 offences. 2 x SP30 or equivalent & 2 x SAC. I can remember them all & the circumstances. The first was in an old Ford Pop which struggled to 45MPH I was done by a Motorbiking cop for 39 in a 30. Ironically a road I used a lot which had changed from a 40 to a 30 a week before, Easy nick for plod but bang to rights. The second was in Swindon on an urban dual carriageway 50 in a 40, unknown area, cop with camera my mistake. The 1st SAC was for a Leeds camera 37 in a 30 my mistake I was tired after a long drive & was looking for a hotel & got distracted & the last was the redundant contraflow which I posted about. Not bad for someone who used to do 50-60 K per annum, all over the UK. The last SAC is the on;y one I had an issue with. But you seemingly would be happy to be preached at about eco driving & other non-relevant st if it was you.
OK, you win. I'm wrong and clearly talking st.smile I'm off to bed now as I've a long journey and an early start tomorrow. I wouldn't want to be tired and miss a speed camera. wink

Pete317

1,430 posts

221 months

Thursday 30th July 2015
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BertBert said:
alock said:
Still waiting for the correlation between speeding and impact speed to complete their argument though.
But it's an irrelevance isn't it? Good driving is not based on "only hit people at 30 mph". It's based on don't fking hit people.
Exactly.

There's normally a lot which can (and usually does) be done by drivers to avoid an incident becoming a full-on emergency braking situation in the first place.

But you and alock are coming dangerously close to incurring the wrath of the hard-of-thinking brigade, who will doubtless be around shortly to pontificate about the faster you drive, the faster you hit.


Edited by Pete317 on Thursday 30th July 08:23

mikeveal

4,557 posts

249 months

Thursday 30th July 2015
quotequote all
jogger1976 said:
Oh dear, having a bad day, are we? I think you might need an anger management course as well as a speed awareness one smile

For you benefit, and also Mikeveal, when I got caught speeding - twice, yes I know, the shame! wink- I didn't have the luxury of a speed awareness course, because they didn't exist!

I had to suck up the the fine, points on my licence and increased insurance premiums and the first time, I had to listen to a lecture from Traffic Officer who caught me with a speed gun, so I'm well aware of the "think of the children" line.

However, I decided there and then that I was in the wrong, had been a bit of a tt and took the bking as a hard learned lesson along with the hit to my wallet.

I certainly didn't try to be all billy big boots to show what a big man I was to him or anyone else.

I guess I'll just have to accept I'll never be a powerfully built company director like you frowncryweeping
OK, I admit. I'm wrong, you right. Your logic is incontrovertible and your superior experience clearly trumps everything we have to say.
Please accept my humble appology, your posts are not antagonistic in the slightest.
You're right. All speeding is dangerous and therefore bad and 2+2 does indeed equal 5 (YRSGT). Thank you for showing me how wrong it is to question what I'm told by the authorities, rather than simply sucking it up like someone with the intellectual capacity of a cabbage.


Pete317

1,430 posts

221 months

Thursday 30th July 2015
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tony wright said:
A vehicle had drove over the brow of a hill at the correct speed limit and there was a right turn 100m over the top. Second vehicle had stopped waiting to turn right and the first vehicle went straight into the back of it pushing it over the road directly into the path of oncoming traffic resulting in serious injuries all round. So we went through the normal malarkey of slowing down etc but the instructors default answer shocked me. He said the best thing to of done in this situation would of been for the car turning right to have stopped at the brow and wait for a gap in oncoming traffic before proceeding to move forward and turn right. Remember the turning is 100m away so you best know how fast your car accelerates and hope the traffic is very light or you may be there for a whileeek Can't imagine the queuing traffic would be best pleased too.
Sounds like a very intelligently laid-out junction eek

Otispunkmeyer

12,557 posts

154 months

Thursday 30th July 2015
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Anyone know what these courses are like in the Midlands? ( I assume you can go to one wherever? Though i was potentially caught in the NE on the A19).

Anyway hopefully I am ok. I was doing and indicated 81, on the A19 on a Monday evening. No traffic about really, inclement weather but only really a notch up from a drizzle at that stage. Arrow straight, newly surfaced road and I see a van in a layby in the distance.

I just didn't twig what it might be. It had the hatching and the rear windows but I just didn't twig. I've never even seen a patrol car along that road, never mind a van, so I just wasn't on the look out. By the time I realised what it was, I figured it was too late any way and just carried on. I switched on my nav to see a GPS 79 mph so fingers crossed I was on the cusp of 10% + 2. Haven't had a letter as yet! but keep waiting for one to be on the mat when I get home from work every day.

I mean I hold my hands up, I was over the NSL but I was far from the fastest thing on the road that evening and it does feel a bit "fish in a barrel"... driving in a straight line with no traffic, no junctions or slips in the vicinity is not exactly the height of danger. It just smacks a bit of generating money rather than doing actual police work or making things safer. Hopefully they were just after those who, seeing the empty straight roads, felt like taking the mick and getting some speed on.

They'd have been much more useful positioned on the M1 later where it rained so much there was standing water everywhere and people were still barreling down the road at 70+! Now that was dangerous!

Have to laugh though, the same force moan about cut backs and yet they've got enough to have 2 blokes in a van on an mostly empty road catching people driving in a straight line.

Perseverant

439 posts

110 months

Thursday 30th July 2015
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Haven't been offered anything as yet for first ticket ever - clocked at 8o on dual carriageway, for which read motorway in Bonnie Scotland, but since I'm retired I'd be interested in taking a course - I lose nothing and might learn something. I must fix the speedo on the old car as compared to GPS it reads slow. I was secretly hoping for an award in a 25 year old Mercedes.

markoc

1,084 posts

195 months

Thursday 30th July 2015
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I got the option of one, so took it. Far more preferable to pay £100 or so as a one off to keep the points off the license. Was pinged on the way to the FoS by a mobile radar gun that must have had a cloaking device as I didn't see it. It would be fair to say I was accelerating spiritedly between roundabouts, and if he'd been further down the road they'd have thrown away the key.

Mine was spoiled by evangelical guy running it, who couldn't comprehend the fact that I'd been having fun in an automobile rather than using it as a device to get from A to B. He asked me outright in front of the group at least three times why, if the speed limit was 40, had I knowingly broken the law. Yes I knew the speed limit, and yes I was breaking it - on dry empty open dual carriageway at 5am and in a straight line. Bottom line, I was in the wrong - but he was being a monumental bellend about it.

Agree with the comments about how dim the general public can be though. Some scary gaps in quite basic knowledge from some of the attendees.

On a cost/benefit basis I can't see how turning down the offer makes sense.

A word of warning. There is usually an argumentative idiot in the room who insists on knowing better than the instructor. This can be quite entertaining and let the time pass quicker. Just don't let it be you.

alock

4,224 posts

210 months

Thursday 30th July 2015
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Pete317 said:
BertBert said:
alock said:
Still waiting for the correlation between speeding and impact speed to complete their argument though.
But it's an irrelevance isn't it? Good driving is not based on "only hit people at 30 mph". It's based on don't fking hit people.
Exactly.

There's normally a lot which can (and usually does) be done by drivers to avoid an incident becoming a full-on emergency braking situation in the first place.

But you and alock are coming dangerously close to incurring the wrath of the hard-of-thinking brigade, who will doubtless be around shortly to pontificate about the faster you drive, the faster you hit.


Edited by Pete317 on Thursday 30th July 08:23
I only went down this line due to someone else posting this comment:
eatcustard said:
Any education has to be worth it.
The courses give you (what have turned out to be out of date and invalid) statistics about fatality rates for 30mph and 40mph impacts as a technique for encouraging people to stick to 30mph limits. This is flawed for many reasons.

As an example, if someone could find statistics that show someone doing x% over the limit 10 seconds before the impact (i.e before they attempted their breaking maneuver) is more likely to cause serious injury or death then that would be good education!

Pete317

1,430 posts

221 months

Thursday 30th July 2015
quotequote all
alock said:
As an example, if someone could find statistics that show someone doing x% over the limit 10 seconds before the impact (i.e before they attempted their breaking maneuver) is more likely to cause serious injury or death then that would be good education!
If they had something remotely like that they would long have been shouting it from the rooftops.