64mph in 30

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Discussion

Pete317

1,430 posts

221 months

Friday 29th May 2015
quotequote all
Vaud said:
The section coming down the hill is quite right to be a 20. It is very steep as well in parts, especially in the wet/snow past the houses, and the early 20 gives larger vehicles a chance to get down to the right speed.
Halfway down a very steep hill is no time for a HGV to start slowing down, and if the driver has somehow missed the "Low gear" sign near the top of the hill as well as all the other rather obvious visual clues which should really render the 20 limit moot, it may well serve only to make them overheat their brakes even quicker.

And, besides that snow or ice on that road would arguably make even 20mph too fast for the average car, for how many days of the year is that a problem?

Edited by Pete317 on Friday 29th May 19:51

Vaud

50,285 posts

154 months

Friday 29th May 2015
quotequote all
Roo said:
Sure I read on here that a single carriageway can't have different speeds in opposite directions which would explain why one way seems ok but not the other.
Possible.

LoonR1

26,988 posts

176 months

Friday 29th May 2015
quotequote all
All that jazz said:
silentbrown said:
All that jazz said:
a dozen terrace houses before another bunch of nothing til the village half a mile down the road.
So that's 'another bunch of nothing' all along the blue line then. Can't think why they bothered with a speed limit at all.

Instead of arguing and making yourself look even more foolish, look on streetview! There's nothing there except fields and a high wall til the village. No reason for it to be 20 at all.
You said there is "nothing for 1/2 a mile after the terraces" that blue line clearly shows there is a shedload of something for a lot of that 1/2 mile. Why can't you see that?

Better still let's discuss the road you live on and let's see if it should be a higher limit.

Vaud

50,285 posts

154 months

Friday 29th May 2015
quotequote all
Pete317 said:
Halfway down a very steep hill is no time for a HGV to start slowing down, and if the driver has somehow missed the "Low gear" sign near the top of the hill as well as all the other rather obvious visual clues which should really render the 20 limit moot, it may well serve only to make them overheat their brakes even quicker.

And, besides that snow or ice on that road would arguably make even 20mph too fast for the average car, for how many days of the year is that a problem?

Edited by Pete317 on Friday 29th May 19:51
The 20 zone starts before the really steep bit. I was basing my comments on reality - the 20 zone starts before the high risk zone (by the houses and then a bend), has a speed indicator and good signage. It's a fair compromise, but you would probably need to see it in real life rather than on Google maps to see that in this case it is reasonably done.

Plenty of good driving roads after the 20 zone.

User33678888

1,141 posts

136 months

Friday 29th May 2015
quotequote all
Genuinely shocked at some of the responses on here. 65 in a 30 isn't that crazy. All depends on the roads and conditions etc. Speed isn't automatically dangerous IIRC.

LoonR1

26,988 posts

176 months

Friday 29th May 2015
quotequote all
User33678888 said:
Genuinely shocked at some of the responses on here. 65 in a 30 isn't that crazy. All depends on the roads and conditions etc. Speed isn't automatically dangerous IIRC.
Nobody said it was "dangerous", either in the legal or practical sense. What has been said is that breaking the rules that much is likely to lead to a big fine and some serious points at best.

Edited by LoonR1 on Friday 29th May 20:36

RYH64E

7,960 posts

243 months

Friday 29th May 2015
quotequote all
LoonR1 said:
Nobody said it was "damagerous", either in the legal or practical sense. What has been said is that breaking the rules that much is likely to lead to a big fine and some serious points at best.
At best nobody notices and no points are awarded.

Pete317

1,430 posts

221 months

Friday 29th May 2015
quotequote all
Vaud said:
Pete317 said:
Halfway down a very steep hill is no time for a HGV to start slowing down, and if the driver has somehow missed the "Low gear" sign near the top of the hill as well as all the other rather obvious visual clues which should really render the 20 limit moot, it may well serve only to make them overheat their brakes even quicker.

And, besides that snow or ice on that road would arguably make even 20mph too fast for the average car, for how many days of the year is that a problem?

Edited by Pete317 on Friday 29th May 19:51
The 20 zone starts before the really steep bit. I was basing my comments on reality - the 20 zone starts before the high risk zone (by the houses and then a bend), has a speed indicator and good signage. It's a fair compromise, but you would probably need to see it in real life rather than on Google maps to see that in this case it is reasonably done.

Plenty of good driving roads after the 20 zone.
My point is that if an HGV driver leaves it until somewhere around the start of the 20 then they've left it far too late.

Mind you, at least you only have it through the village - here in Bristol the whole city is one big 20 zone.

Pete317

1,430 posts

221 months

Friday 29th May 2015
quotequote all
LoonR1 said:
User33678888 said:
Genuinely shocked at some of the responses on here. 65 in a 30 isn't that crazy. All depends on the roads and conditions etc. Speed isn't automatically dangerous IIRC.
Nobody said it was "damagerous", either in the legal or practical sense. What has been said is that breaking the rules that much is likely to lead to a big fine and some serious points at best.
All well and good - provided the rules are worthy of respect.

Vipers

32,796 posts

227 months

Friday 29th May 2015
quotequote all
User33678888 said:
Genuinely shocked at some of the responses on here. 65 in a 30 isn't that crazy. All depends on the roads and conditions etc. Speed isn't automatically dangerous IIRC.
Interesting, any examples?




smile

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 30th May 2015
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TheHound said:
supermono said:
Absolutely. We have these extended "out of town" 30s now and some Einstein in Norfolk decided to make the A11 a 30 a full two miles ahead of the Thickthorn roundabout because at certain times of the day, apparently, a workman was present.

20 years ago 30s were sacred and the OP would probably be guilty of being a nut but those days are long gone, and you simply can't know without looking at the road. Way too many sandal wearing green loonies making road decisions way above their intelligence levels/pay grades.
Those bloody 30 sections on the A11 are ridiculous. Fortunately I don't have to go that way too often but every time I do, they do my nut in. Its dual carriage way and there is never a huge amount of traffic on them!
Nearly everything above is factually incorrect.

The limit is to stop people killing themselves by driving in to the back of tractors in fog etc. The accident rate up there is higher than average, and fast moving traffic racing up L2 wanting a jump on the slow stuff doesn't mix well with ancient tractors with half-working lighting pulling hay bales at 7.5mph.

Then add central reservation gaps to allow locals access to their homes etc and you end up with a relatively very dangerous stretch of road.

If you want to know the reasons for a speed limit, you can always ask the people that actually know about it rather than wild speculation. The A11 bits and pieces will have had absolutely fk all to do with anyone green. It won't be a political decision. It will be because too many people have died up there.

It wasn't a decision made in Norfolk either.

And if a worker is on the road then you should slow down. You'd be upset if someone drove past your desk/IT support workers station at 70mph, why should highways workers not have the same right to a safe working environment?

Guybrush

4,330 posts

205 months

Saturday 30th May 2015
quotequote all
OpulentBob said:
TheHound said:
supermono said:
Absolutely. We have these extended "out of town" 30s now and some Einstein in Norfolk decided to make the A11 a 30 a full two miles ahead of the Thickthorn roundabout because at certain times of the day, apparently, a workman was present.

20 years ago 30s were sacred and the OP would probably be guilty of being a nut but those days are long gone, and you simply can't know without looking at the road. Way too many sandal wearing green loonies making road decisions way above their intelligence levels/pay grades.
Those bloody 30 sections on the A11 are ridiculous. Fortunately I don't have to go that way too often but every time I do, they do my nut in. Its dual carriage way and there is never a huge amount of traffic on them!
Nearly everything above is factually incorrect.

The limit is to stop people killing themselves by driving in to the back of tractors in fog etc. The accident rate up there is higher than average, and fast moving traffic racing up L2 wanting a jump on the slow stuff doesn't mix well with ancient tractors with half-working lighting pulling hay bales at 7.5mph.

Then add central reservation gaps to allow locals access to their homes etc and you end up with a relatively very dangerous stretch of road.

If you want to know the reasons for a speed limit, you can always ask the people that actually know about it rather than wild speculation. The A11 bits and pieces will have had absolutely fk all to do with anyone green. It won't be a political decision. It will be because too many people have died up there.

It wasn't a decision made in Norfolk either.

And if a worker is on the road then you should slow down. You'd be upset if someone drove past your desk/IT support workers station at 70mph, why should highways workers not have the same right to a safe working environment?
So we are getting stupidly low limits in case it's ever foggy or perhaps in case someone might be working near the road at some time? Maybe in case someone is ever crawling on all fours blind drunk in lane 2? You never know. Why not 15mph everywhere, in case it's ever icy?

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 30th May 2015
quotequote all
Have you ever driven the stretch of road in question? Have you read the hundred-odd police accident reports on record for that stretch? You'd be aware of the queues that can build up and stretch back in a couple of minutes with little advanced warning, and then have cars coming up the road at 80mph trying to stop, yes sometimes in icy conditions, but more often in fog or the wet, often with mud on the road reducing skid resistance. If you read the original post and knew the area you'd have known that it was on the approach to a major roundabout between 2 high speed rural trunk roads. Having a reduced limit on the approach is both sensible (when local conditions and history are taken in to account) and more generally is par for the course. We're not talking about a random stretch of road in the middle of nowhere with no junctions etc.

Stop jumping to conclusions just to try and stick the boot in and look big and clever. There is a reason for a reduced limit on a trunk road. It's not subject to the same regs as county roads. Reduction in speed has to be justified and (usually) show a significant benefit to safety.

I could tell you how I know about that specific location, and how I had to speak to the mother of a lad who died there (his own fault).

Or that it's close to the location where that guy was riding his bike at 100+ and hit a car turning across the road, and his mother released the helmet camera footage so we could all watch him die.

That's the nature of the road and junction, and it's popular for all sorts of road users. Bikers, caravaners, tractors, people going to or from Snetterton and getting a bit carried away. So the full spectrum of speeds and sizes. But to try and mitigate for that, we're to be criticised.

OK then.

You know better.

The Mad Monk

10,474 posts

116 months

Saturday 30th May 2015
quotequote all
Roo said:
Sure I read on here that a single carriageway can't have different speeds in opposite directions which would explain why one way seems ok but not the other.
I could take you to a stretch of road near my principal UK residence which has different speed limits on it depending upon which direction you are travelling.

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 30th May 2015
quotequote all
The Mad Monk said:
Roo said:
Sure I read on here that a single carriageway can't have different speeds in opposite directions which would explain why one way seems ok but not the other.
I could take you to a stretch of road near my principal UK residence which has different speed limits on it depending upon which direction you are travelling.
Genuinely and without being a smart arse, I'd be interested to see that (I'm a highways engineer and have not seen it before, although without the regs in front of me I couldn't categorically say one way or the other). Any chance of a maps link? Is it a variable limit, or a fixed permanent limit?

Ps love the "principal UK residence" bit! Very PH wink

Dammit

3,790 posts

207 months

Saturday 30th May 2015
quotequote all
Guybrush said:
So we are getting stupidly low limits in case it's ever foggy or perhaps in case someone might be working near the road at some time? Maybe in case someone is ever crawling on all fours blind drunk in lane 2? You never know. Why not 15mph everywhere, in case it's ever icy?
No debating points for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

The Mad Monk

10,474 posts

116 months

Saturday 30th May 2015
quotequote all
OpulentBob said:
Genuinely and without being a smart arse, I'd be interested to see that (I'm a highways engineer and have not seen it before, although without the regs in front of me I couldn't categorically say one way or the other). Any chance of a maps link? Is it a variable limit, or a fixed permanent limit?

Ps love the "principal UK residence" bit! Very PH wink
I am not very good at this. If you Google 'West End lane, Esher' the speed limit signs are near number 93. The speed limit coming off the A307 and entering West End is 50. Leaving West End going toward Cobham it is 30 until one reaches the junction with the A307.

http://tinyurl.com/nhv4478

coopedup

3,741 posts

138 months

Saturday 30th May 2015
quotequote all
The Mad Monk said:
OpulentBob said:
Genuinely and without being a smart arse, I'd be interested to see that (I'm a highways engineer and have not seen it before, although without the regs in front of me I couldn't categorically say one way or the other). Any chance of a maps link? Is it a variable limit, or a fixed permanent limit?

Ps love the "principal UK residence" bit! Very PH wink
I am not very good at this. If you Google 'West End lane, Esher' the speed limit signs are near number 93. The speed limit coming off the A307 and entering West End is 50. Leaving West End going toward Cobham it is 30 until one reaches the junction with the A307.

http://tinyurl.com/nhv4478
I can confirm this, very strange

Vipers

32,796 posts

227 months

Saturday 30th May 2015
quotequote all
The Mad Monk said:
I am not very good at this. If you Google 'West End lane, Esher' the speed limit signs are near number 93. The speed limit coming off the A307 and entering West End is 50. Leaving West End going toward Cobham it is 30 until one reaches the junction with the A307.

http://tinyurl.com/nhv4478
Strange having bicycle icons on the roads as well both ways. My take, I think the 50 sign leaving West End is missing for unbeknown reasons.




smile

TheHound

1,759 posts

121 months

Saturday 30th May 2015
quotequote all
OpulentBob said:
Nearly everything above is factually incorrect.

The limit is to stop people killing themselves by driving in to the back of tractors in fog etc. The accident rate up there is higher than average, and fast moving traffic racing up L2 wanting a jump on the slow stuff doesn't mix well with ancient tractors with half-working lighting pulling hay bales at 7.5mph.

Then add central reservation gaps to allow locals access to their homes etc and you end up with a relatively very dangerous stretch of road.

If you want to know the reasons for a speed limit, you can always ask the people that actually know about it rather than wild speculation. The A11 bits and pieces will have had absolutely fk all to do with anyone green. It won't be a political decision. It will be because too many people have died up there.

It wasn't a decision made in Norfolk either.

And if a worker is on the road then you should slow down. You'd be upset if someone drove past your desk/IT support workers station at 70mph, why should highways workers not have the same right to a safe working environment?
Opulent Bob...You do not seem to know the bit of road that we are ACTUALLY talking about!

Here it is you bellend!

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.606862,1.243894,3a...

Yes this really is a 30 at the moment!!!!!

ETA - that this is about 20 miles away from where the motorcyclist got hit and lost his head. Not to mention it is a completley different road!

Edited by TheHound on Saturday 30th May 10:03


Edited by TheHound on Saturday 30th May 10:05