Parents splitting up, what's your opinion?
Discussion
Hey guys,
I'm looking for some stories/similar experiences when it comes to parents splitting up. I'm going to outline the situation and how it has played out, it's not a straight forward divorce since they are not married. I've got no knowledge about the law since I've not experienced this position before. Before you flame me for asking big questions on a public forum, the solicitors are about to get involved. I'm just curious about other people's perspectives.
Story: Parents lived together in the family home owned by A for 30 years, had two kids who have both grown up and flown the nest, and have now decided to go their separate ways. B has always contributed to running the household, pays no majority of bills and keeping the fridge full etc. A and B are partners in the family business which isn't a limited company. Since they are un-married, B is unsure what will happen in terms of a roof over the head and money in general.
Anyone here faced or seen a similar predicament?
I am the son who has been mediating to a certain extent. Any tips appreciated!
Cheers
I'm looking for some stories/similar experiences when it comes to parents splitting up. I'm going to outline the situation and how it has played out, it's not a straight forward divorce since they are not married. I've got no knowledge about the law since I've not experienced this position before. Before you flame me for asking big questions on a public forum, the solicitors are about to get involved. I'm just curious about other people's perspectives.
Story: Parents lived together in the family home owned by A for 30 years, had two kids who have both grown up and flown the nest, and have now decided to go their separate ways. B has always contributed to running the household, pays no majority of bills and keeping the fridge full etc. A and B are partners in the family business which isn't a limited company. Since they are un-married, B is unsure what will happen in terms of a roof over the head and money in general.
Anyone here faced or seen a similar predicament?
I am the son who has been mediating to a certain extent. Any tips appreciated!
Cheers
andyferrari said:
I'm not a legal expert, but I would say everything including the business will be seen by the courts as 50/50 for both parties. So I wouldnt be too worried.
What makes you think that?Business should have details of who owns what.
Home will need to show contribution to purchase and upkeep to get share
Assets in own name stay that way.
Common misconception of common law husband and wife - it doesn't exist.
At least that's as I understand it.
Cheers for the comments guys, your responses are exactly what I've come across in the real world - varying views on who owns what and how each party will benefit. I think a trip to the solicitors will help clear things up, I'm thinking realistically and won't be expecting the world but as long as both parties involved can amicably work things out without too much hardship I'm happy for both of them
I think getting advice would be very sensible.
Assuming all the assets are owned by the firm, the business part of it, in terms of who owns what, may be relatively straightforward. The Partnership Act 1890 says that in the absence of agreement between the partners to the contrary, they will be deemed to be entitled to equal shares regardless of contributions originally made. Working out what to do with the business in a more practical sense (assuming they will not be continuing to work together) will be trickier though and somebody will need to take them over some options.
The house may be more complicated - there are equitable doctrines that allow somebody who is not the legal owner to claim an interest in property in certain circumstances. The main one is something called a common intention constructive trust, which is broadly where there was actually a common intention to share ownership, or one can be inferred by conduct (eg when mortgage repayments have been shared).
That's just a really light overview to get you started though, they'll need (separate) advice!
Assuming all the assets are owned by the firm, the business part of it, in terms of who owns what, may be relatively straightforward. The Partnership Act 1890 says that in the absence of agreement between the partners to the contrary, they will be deemed to be entitled to equal shares regardless of contributions originally made. Working out what to do with the business in a more practical sense (assuming they will not be continuing to work together) will be trickier though and somebody will need to take them over some options.
The house may be more complicated - there are equitable doctrines that allow somebody who is not the legal owner to claim an interest in property in certain circumstances. The main one is something called a common intention constructive trust, which is broadly where there was actually a common intention to share ownership, or one can be inferred by conduct (eg when mortgage repayments have been shared).
That's just a really light overview to get you started though, they'll need (separate) advice!
Barwy said:
Thanks belly, based on what you've written there could be a good(ish) outcome for both of them. But solicitors are about to get involved and we will take it from there.
30 years is a long time, circumstances change though I guess
No worries, hope they get something sorted.30 years is a long time, circumstances change though I guess
On a practical note, I'd advise doing whatever you can to keep them wanting to sort it out amicably. Whilst advice is certainly going to be wise to find out where each of them might stand legally, I'd try to make sure that the idea of that advice is to get a base from which to start conversations between them. If they can't then reach an amicable solution then of course they can think again later, but fees can rack up really fast if the lawyers start doing the negotiating, and if any of it goes as far as court then they can both kiss goodbye to a good chunk of whatever amount of money it is that's in question. It's amazing how quickly an atmosphere can change when money's involved and somebody is being encouraged to go for whatever they can get.
Terminator X said:
Splitting up after 30 years! Bizarre.
TX.
Is it; my mum and dad split up after 27 years of marriage, probably together 2-3 years before that, happened to the wife's parents around that time scale too, you hear of a fair few couples that split once they are nearing middle age. TX.
Are they now involving solicitors because serious disagreements have arisen, or just because they think that in some abstract sense they need to get solicitors involved?
Although some solicitors are self-serving swine, most are trying to do their jobs properly and professionally. Unfortunately many of them will see their job as being simply to get as much for their client as they possibly can. This mentality will especially assert itself when there are no minor children, in which case the process may appear to be nothing more than a zero-sum game between two adults.
It could be quite helpful in the long-term for A and B, prior to involving solicitors, to identify the issues on which they can find agreement, and declare those issues resolved and off-limits from further discussion. They should focus on only those things on which they cannot agree and need outside advice. An intermediary whom they both trust, such as perhaps you, could be hugely beneficial.
Although some solicitors are self-serving swine, most are trying to do their jobs properly and professionally. Unfortunately many of them will see their job as being simply to get as much for their client as they possibly can. This mentality will especially assert itself when there are no minor children, in which case the process may appear to be nothing more than a zero-sum game between two adults.
It could be quite helpful in the long-term for A and B, prior to involving solicitors, to identify the issues on which they can find agreement, and declare those issues resolved and off-limits from further discussion. They should focus on only those things on which they cannot agree and need outside advice. An intermediary whom they both trust, such as perhaps you, could be hugely beneficial.
HTP99 said:
Terminator X said:
Splitting up after 30 years! Bizarre.
TX.
Is it; my mum and dad split up after 27 years of marriage, probably together 2-3 years before that, happened to the wife's parents around that time scale too, you hear of a fair few couples that split once they are nearing middle age. TX.
Many couples stick around till the kids have flown the nest and are settled, think I've got maybe 20 odd years left, do I really want to spend it with someone I've not really anything in common with?
I've been married 34 years and love my wife, but I wouldn't hang around if I didn't...life's too short.
HTP99 said:
Is it; my mum and dad split up after 27 years of marriage, probably together 2-3 years before that, happened to the wife's parents around that time scale too, you hear of a fair few couples that split once they are nearing middle age.
Can be a case of staying together for the kids sake but once the children are non dependents why continue...OP - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Documents/Advice...
flemke said:
It could be quite helpful in the long-term for A and B, prior to involving solicitors, to identify the issues on which they can find agreement, and declare those issues resolved and off-limits from further discussion. They should focus on only those things on which they cannot agree and need outside advice. An intermediary whom they both trust, such as perhaps you, could be hugely beneficial.
I agree to a certain extent, but the issue I see with this approach is that if they haven't found out what their legal position is before starting talks, they have no baseline to work from. That might lead to an unfair outcome because either A or B might be too quick to submit on something that they are would actually be entitled to, but assumed they weren't. I'm definitely with you on the fact that they're best to agree, but would liken the situation currently to two blind people trying decide what colour's best to paint a house; neither of them know enough about it to be able to have the conversation. There's no reason why a solicitor can't be instructed just to advise on what their position is in a legal sense and then bow out to allow the parties to sort it out between them once they've got some sort of baseline.
Wacky Racer said:
HTP99 said:
Terminator X said:
Splitting up after 30 years! Bizarre.
TX.
Is it; my mum and dad split up after 27 years of marriage, probably together 2-3 years before that, happened to the wife's parents around that time scale too, you hear of a fair few couples that split once they are nearing middle age. TX.
Many couples stick around till the kids have flown the nest and are settled, think I've got maybe 20 odd years left, do I really want to spend it with someone I've not really anything in common with?
I've been married 34 years and love my wife, but I wouldn't hang around if I didn't...life's too short.
I sometime wonder what will happen to my wife and I, she has grown into someone who would be happy to sit and watch TV all day. I need a purpose in life. Once we have loads of spare time we could easily drift apart
I was in a very similar thing myself.
I was about 13 when my Mum (who had been engaged, and with my dad for 17 years) looked up and said she didn't want to be with my Dad any more. It came completely out of the blue and it hit everyone, especially my Dad hard.
We all knew, but we still had my 2 older (half) sisters (who had their own families and moved out long ago) come over and we all sat down and she told us all, together. We knew then, from how it changed from her blaming him for not supporting her through a cancer scare (which transpired was completely fictional) to her wanted to "pursue her career" (she worked in a nursing home, how much of a career can you get from that?). It all stunk a little bit, and my Dad had an inkling that she was being unfaithful, but with no proof to it just kept an eye out for little hints. Sure enough, a lot of the obvious ones were there, Hiding phone, fake names in the phone, password protected and suddenly making much more of an effort dressing for work, the list goes on.
Being 13 at the time, and just going through my GCSE's it, frankly, was s
t timing, telling us all a week after I went back to school.
I can still remember my Dad worrying about how he was going to manage without her (him being disabled and working part time, she was the main bread-winner) financially and emotionally, and I could see, for the first time ever, not a strong willed gentleman, but a worried, frail old man worried about how he was going to survive himself, let alone with a damaged 13 year old lad. Thankfully, they weren't married, and after my "mother" (speech-marks become evident later on) told him that she would have the house off of him, and see him on the street, she was left to leave with nothing because he had paid for everything (no mortgage) and she had to start again, and he kept his home. She tried to contact solicitors, and she was told, in no uncertain terms that she had no chance of any claim on the house at all, regardless of my age.
So after she left, after treating the place like a hotel for weeks (not even cooking for me, or cleaning up after herself) she found herself a flat and that's when it transpired (due to me and my dad putting 2+2 together) she was having an affair. My dad got called everything from a guttersnipe (No idea either) to a bad parent for allowing me to find out (the truth) and that it's all bks.
It wasn't.
It was at that point that I told her, clearly, that as long as she had a relationship with that gutless gobste (he left 2 kids, 1 older, 1 younger than me, and a wife, and had previously cheated) I wanted nothing to do with her. After that phone call, 2 hours later the gobste, along with my "mother" came onto my doorstep and tried to bully me into talking to her. He looked up and said that I must have a relationship with my "mother" because I need it. I calmly (well, almost) told him that he needs to go forth and multiply, before I smacked him round the head with a golf club. Predictably, the coward then recoiled behind "mother" So I told them, firmly and loudly than I wanted nothing to do with an unfaithful bully. She simply turned around, muttered "well have a nice life then" and walked off. I wasn't at all bothered, but my dad was horrified.
Anyway, after about 4 months, he sodded off back to his wife, and then my "mother" was all over me and my dad like a fly on week old dog turd. I couldn't get rid of her even after her telling me to do one and that I wasn't interested. Anyway; this kept on for about 6 months and I slowly began to be wore down by it all. But all of a sudden, when she would be over 4/5 times a week, it became once. At that point, I knew he was back, before my dad even cottoned on.
He was.
I told her the same thing again, she told me to "Call her when I lost the attitude"
Dad again horrified, I couldn't have cared less.
It was pretty quiet for a couple of years, until I had my GCSE's and after that I was being called weekly asking for the results - A couple of weeks later I got them, and I saw them, smiled to myself and burst into tears. All that work, all that suffering I had gone through and I hadn't been a drop out and failed miserably. I got 4 A's, 4B's and 2C's. It wasn't because I'd done it I was emotional, it was because all of the blood, sweat, tears and pain my dad, (and me to a degree) had paid off, and it was in my hand the proof that I needed that I didn't need her.
That phone call never felt sweeter.
Couple of years, on my 18th, I got £20 watch for my birthday, when I already had one, I messaged her politely asking for the receipt as I already had one, and would like to swap it for something else. She replied, making things deliberately awkward saying that I would need to come to her to get it. (when she worked less than 2 miles away from where I lived, and hadn't moved) I told her that it wouldn't work and could she drop it to me, even through the letterbox would be sufficient if she didn't want to talk and that was met with a 1 word response, NO.
I then text back "Alright, don't bother. Further evidence I'm better off without you in my life, being deliberately awkward"
Then, nothing, not even cards.
I turned 21 this year, and have gone from strength to strength. I have my own car, bought and paid for, saving up for a deposit on a house, an amazing fiancée who I have been with for a couple of years (I am punching well, well above my weight too!) and we're happy. I'm in a very comfortable, stable job doing something I love and I don't mind getting up in the mornings, allbeit with the help of coffee.
But most of all, I did all of this, during a time that I was going through hell at home, during important exams at school and I still managed not to be a complete cop out doing nothing with my life. It was fking hard work, yes. But it's do-able. Not all is lost.
TL;DR.
Make sure that whoever put the most into the house and business, or whoever decided they wanted out gets as little as possible.
I was about 13 when my Mum (who had been engaged, and with my dad for 17 years) looked up and said she didn't want to be with my Dad any more. It came completely out of the blue and it hit everyone, especially my Dad hard.
We all knew, but we still had my 2 older (half) sisters (who had their own families and moved out long ago) come over and we all sat down and she told us all, together. We knew then, from how it changed from her blaming him for not supporting her through a cancer scare (which transpired was completely fictional) to her wanted to "pursue her career" (she worked in a nursing home, how much of a career can you get from that?). It all stunk a little bit, and my Dad had an inkling that she was being unfaithful, but with no proof to it just kept an eye out for little hints. Sure enough, a lot of the obvious ones were there, Hiding phone, fake names in the phone, password protected and suddenly making much more of an effort dressing for work, the list goes on.
Being 13 at the time, and just going through my GCSE's it, frankly, was s
t timing, telling us all a week after I went back to school. I can still remember my Dad worrying about how he was going to manage without her (him being disabled and working part time, she was the main bread-winner) financially and emotionally, and I could see, for the first time ever, not a strong willed gentleman, but a worried, frail old man worried about how he was going to survive himself, let alone with a damaged 13 year old lad. Thankfully, they weren't married, and after my "mother" (speech-marks become evident later on) told him that she would have the house off of him, and see him on the street, she was left to leave with nothing because he had paid for everything (no mortgage) and she had to start again, and he kept his home. She tried to contact solicitors, and she was told, in no uncertain terms that she had no chance of any claim on the house at all, regardless of my age.
So after she left, after treating the place like a hotel for weeks (not even cooking for me, or cleaning up after herself) she found herself a flat and that's when it transpired (due to me and my dad putting 2+2 together) she was having an affair. My dad got called everything from a guttersnipe (No idea either) to a bad parent for allowing me to find out (the truth) and that it's all b
ks. It wasn't.
It was at that point that I told her, clearly, that as long as she had a relationship with that gutless gobs
te (he left 2 kids, 1 older, 1 younger than me, and a wife, and had previously cheated) I wanted nothing to do with her. After that phone call, 2 hours later the gobste, along with my "mother" came onto my doorstep and tried to bully me into talking to her. He looked up and said that I must have a relationship with my "mother" because I need it. I calmly (well, almost) told him that he needs to go forth and multiply, before I smacked him round the head with a golf club. Predictably, the coward then recoiled behind "mother" So I told them, firmly and loudly than I wanted nothing to do with an unfaithful bully. She simply turned around, muttered "well have a nice life then" and walked off. I wasn't at all bothered, but my dad was horrified. Anyway, after about 4 months, he sodded off back to his wife, and then my "mother" was all over me and my dad like a fly on week old dog turd. I couldn't get rid of her even after her telling me to do one and that I wasn't interested. Anyway; this kept on for about 6 months and I slowly began to be wore down by it all. But all of a sudden, when she would be over 4/5 times a week, it became once. At that point, I knew he was back, before my dad even cottoned on.
He was.
I told her the same thing again, she told me to "Call her when I lost the attitude"
Dad again horrified, I couldn't have cared less.
It was pretty quiet for a couple of years, until I had my GCSE's and after that I was being called weekly asking for the results - A couple of weeks later I got them, and I saw them, smiled to myself and burst into tears. All that work, all that suffering I had gone through and I hadn't been a drop out and failed miserably. I got 4 A's, 4B's and 2C's. It wasn't because I'd done it I was emotional, it was because all of the blood, sweat, tears and pain my dad, (and me to a degree) had paid off, and it was in my hand the proof that I needed that I didn't need her.
That phone call never felt sweeter.
Couple of years, on my 18th, I got £20 watch for my birthday, when I already had one, I messaged her politely asking for the receipt as I already had one, and would like to swap it for something else. She replied, making things deliberately awkward saying that I would need to come to her to get it. (when she worked less than 2 miles away from where I lived, and hadn't moved) I told her that it wouldn't work and could she drop it to me, even through the letterbox would be sufficient if she didn't want to talk and that was met with a 1 word response, NO.
I then text back "Alright, don't bother. Further evidence I'm better off without you in my life, being deliberately awkward"
Then, nothing, not even cards.
I turned 21 this year, and have gone from strength to strength. I have my own car, bought and paid for, saving up for a deposit on a house, an amazing fiancée who I have been with for a couple of years (I am punching well, well above my weight too!) and we're happy. I'm in a very comfortable, stable job doing something I love and I don't mind getting up in the mornings, allbeit with the help of coffee.
But most of all, I did all of this, during a time that I was going through hell at home, during important exams at school and I still managed not to be a complete cop out doing nothing with my life. It was f
king hard work, yes. But it's do-able. Not all is lost.TL;DR.
Make sure that whoever put the most into the house and business, or whoever decided they wanted out gets as little as possible.
98elise said:
Agreed. The kids are your life for long while. Once they leave you are left with a different life, and it may not be one that your enjoy.
I sometime wonder what will happen to my wife and I, she has grown into someone who would be happy to sit and watch TV all day. I need a purpose in life. Once we have loads of spare time we could easily drift apart
However, (I don't know the exacts) but she may be shattered from looking after your kids all day and just wants to chill, once they "fly the nest" she may get some interest back, and take up a hobbyI sometime wonder what will happen to my wife and I, she has grown into someone who would be happy to sit and watch TV all day. I need a purpose in life. Once we have loads of spare time we could easily drift apart
R2T2 said:
98elise said:
Agreed. The kids are your life for long while. Once they leave you are left with a different life, and it may not be one that your enjoy.
I sometime wonder what will happen to my wife and I, she has grown into someone who would be happy to sit and watch TV all day. I need a purpose in life. Once we have loads of spare time we could easily drift apart
However, (I don't know the exacts) but she may be shattered from looking after your kids all day and just wants to chill, once they "fly the nest" she may get some interest back, and take up a hobbyI sometime wonder what will happen to my wife and I, she has grown into someone who would be happy to sit and watch TV all day. I need a purpose in life. Once we have loads of spare time we could easily drift apart
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