Isle of Man £50 fine for smoking in a car carrying children
Discussion
jbsportstech said:
I never understood why they banned smoking in work vehicles as I see it everyday and police dont seem to want to enforce it, also why is illegal to smoke next to my colleague in the car but not a baby? I assume because the baby isnt there through the course of work.
It's part of the same as the reason for pub smoking being banned - people being forced to be exposed to smoke at their place of work.People should be able to choose if they are subjected to carcinogens. If you are in a business and you smoke and your junior employee doesn't, they aren't free to choose.
chriscoates81 said:
Mr Classic said:
What about a 17 year old driving and smoking, both things they are allowed to to...?
I thought you had to be 18 to smoke now?grumpyscot said:
No point in introducing a law that simply cannot be enforced. Easier to just ban the sale of cigarettes and tobacco. Full stop!
There might be one or two fundamental flaws in this.Firstly, you would end up with a situation where smokers could no longer buy their tobacco legally
Secondly, There might be the odd few who would shrug their shoulders and accept it, but a lot more would look to other sources.
Thirdly, a black market, which I understand is already pretty large because of the higher taxes on tobacco that we have here compared to other European countries, would be given a substantial boost. Ask the Yanks what happened when they introduced Prohibition for goods that people wanted to buy whether or not they were against the law.
Fourthly, by creating this situation, the government would then be in the odd position of still having to treat smokers for smoking-related diseases on the NHS whilst at the same time cutting off their revenue from tobacco taxation to help offset the costs of that treatment.
Fifthly, and incidentally, many gardens in the UK are full of tobacco plants. They grow quite well in the UK, and many people like the fragrance of their flowers (smells nothing like tobacco smoke by the way). 40+ years ago I worked with guy (in his 60s then) who grew his own tobacco in his back garden. He gave me one of his "cheroots" (as he called them) once, and quite pleasant it was too. Are you going to send Police Squad around to raid Garden Centres and old bloke's herbaceous borders as well?
These might be just some of the reasons why nobody with any sense is proposing a blanket ban on tobacco products.
Vaud said:
rs1952 said:
Fifthly, and incidentally, many gardens in the UK are full of tobacco plants. They grow quite well in the UK...
As do opium poppies...Opium-based products were legal in the UK until Victorian times. There's no market for them any more since they banned them, is there
rs1952 said:
Quite.
Opium-based products were legal in the UK until Victorian times. There's no market for them any more since they banned them, is there
Apparently the issue with poppies is scale (you need acres and acres), harvesting and processing - not to mention sale!Opium-based products were legal in the UK until Victorian times. There's no market for them any more since they banned them, is there
Hence they are less of an issue.
Legal to buy and grow:
https://www.victoriananursery.co.uk/Opium_Poppy/
NinjaPower said:
The problem is, when regular stupid and selfish behaviour causes harm to others, you HAVE TO legislate against it, otherwise people will just carry on doing it.
Clearly thousands of people see no problem at all poisoning their own children with cigarette smoke on a daily basis, therefore there is no other option than making it illegal.
Simply asking them nicely won't work.
Are we going to ban them from taking their little darlings for a Kentucky Happy Meal as well?Clearly thousands of people see no problem at all poisoning their own children with cigarette smoke on a daily basis, therefore there is no other option than making it illegal.
Simply asking them nicely won't work.
That's as abusive as smoking near them IMO.
NinjaPower said:
The problem is, when regular stupid and selfish behaviour causes harm to others, you HAVE TO legislate against it, otherwise people will just carry on doing it.
Clearly thousands of people see no problem at all poisoning their own children with cigarette smoke on a daily basis, therefore there is no other option than making it illegal.
Simply asking them nicely won't work.
i rarely drink alcohol . i do however have to contribute to the pot that wipes the arse of heavy drinkers ,alcoholics and various other stupid ,selfish people that cause harm to themselves and other people every single day in the uk. i agree, we have to legislate against these sort of people.Clearly thousands of people see no problem at all poisoning their own children with cigarette smoke on a daily basis, therefore there is no other option than making it illegal.
Simply asking them nicely won't work.
jbsportstech said:
I never understood why they banned smoking in work vehicles as I see it everyday and police dont seem to want to enforce it,
Your local council as opposed to the police are in charge of enforcing the Smoke Free lawhttp://www.smokefreeengland.co.uk/what-do-i-do/qui...
The proposed no smoking with a child in the car will be enforced primarily by the Police. Local authorities would also be able to enforce the proposed regulations, by authorising appropriate officers, but would not have the powers to stop moving vehicles
Motorrad said:
Are we going to ban them from taking their little darlings for a Kentucky Happy Meal as well?
That's as abusive as smoking near them IMO.
If they are going there every day and becoming obese then you might have a point. However, the occasional fast food meal is simply not comparable to smoking. That's as abusive as smoking near them IMO.
As someone said earlier - if the addicts are left to continue with zero consequences then it will continue. It isn't 1967 in the back of a Vauxhall Viva with petrol fumes coming through the floor and your Dad's Park Drive filterless filling the warm cabin.
A move in the right direction in my opinion. As for X Box and diet intervention - all we can really do is offer advice and intervene in the most serious cases. those parents who fail their children in such ways are abusers without a doubt.
Many of the smokers will continue to puff away in their vehicles but will become more adept at hiding their white sticks. And they'll continue to smoke indoors anyway.
How do they legislate against that?
A move in the right direction in my opinion. As for X Box and diet intervention - all we can really do is offer advice and intervene in the most serious cases. those parents who fail their children in such ways are abusers without a doubt.
Many of the smokers will continue to puff away in their vehicles but will become more adept at hiding their white sticks. And they'll continue to smoke indoors anyway.
How do they legislate against that?
For those mentioning parents smoking at home with children in the house:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/two-year-old-...
I appreciate this is probably a fairly rare occurrence, but this line in the article stood out to me:
Judge Pemberton said "The parents seemed unable both at that stage and when the issue of smoking around [the boy] was raised by any other professional, to acknowledge or appreciate the concern and adapt their behaviour".
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/two-year-old-...
I appreciate this is probably a fairly rare occurrence, but this line in the article stood out to me:
Judge Pemberton said "The parents seemed unable both at that stage and when the issue of smoking around [the boy] was raised by any other professional, to acknowledge or appreciate the concern and adapt their behaviour".
£50 seems rather lenient frankly, I would consider smoking in a car carrying children to be worthy of a much greater punishment than that (as should smoking in a house where children live), it's no less than child abuse. IMO smoking in a car at all should be illegal, using one hand to hold something burning and filling up the cabin with smoke is hardly conducive to paying full attention to driving, it's at least as bad as using a mobile. It's not like it would be a great hardship to stop for a fag break anyhow.
If people want to kill themselves with cigarettes then fair enough but nobody else should be forced to endure the same. Children can't decide to get out the car or move house away from the smoke so smoking around them should be punished fairly seriously IMO.
If people want to kill themselves with cigarettes then fair enough but nobody else should be forced to endure the same. Children can't decide to get out the car or move house away from the smoke so smoking around them should be punished fairly seriously IMO.
NinjaPower said:
For those mentioning parents smoking at home with children in the house:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/two-year-old-...
I appreciate this is probably a fairly rare occurrence, but this line in the article stood out to me:
Judge Pemberton said "The parents seemed unable both at that stage and when the issue of smoking around [the boy] was raised by any other professional, to acknowledge or appreciate the concern and adapt their behaviour".
The smoke was the tip of the iceberg in that case. Mental health and drug issues etc..http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/two-year-old-...
I appreciate this is probably a fairly rare occurrence, but this line in the article stood out to me:
Judge Pemberton said "The parents seemed unable both at that stage and when the issue of smoking around [the boy] was raised by any other professional, to acknowledge or appreciate the concern and adapt their behaviour".
TurboHatchback said:
£50 seems rather lenient frankly, I would consider smoking in a car carrying children to be worthy of a much greater punishment than that (as should smoking in a house where children live), it's no less than child abuse. IMO smoking in a car at all should be illegal, using one hand to hold something burning and filling up the cabin with smoke is hardly conducive to paying full attention to driving, it's at least as bad as using a mobile. It's not like it would be a great hardship to stop for a fag break anyhow.
If people want to kill themselves with cigarettes then fair enough but nobody else should be forced to endure the same. Children can't decide to get out the car or move house away from the smoke so smoking around them should be punished fairly seriously IMO.
Considering smoking a cigarette takes zero mental effort and is entirely possible to do, from lighting up to putting it out without taking your eyes off the road, I would wager if you can't handle smoking a cigarette and driving you probably shouldn't be driving in the first place. It's nowhere near as bad as using a mobile, I'd put it on a level with eating Wine Gums if I'm honest. Can't say I've ever filled the cabin up with smoke either, as I tend to buy cars with this wonderous new invention called windows, which you can crack open and the smoke disappears out. Amazing stuff. If people want to kill themselves with cigarettes then fair enough but nobody else should be forced to endure the same. Children can't decide to get out the car or move house away from the smoke so smoking around them should be punished fairly seriously IMO.
bodhi said:
Considering smoking a cigarette takes zero mental effort and is entirely possible to do, from lighting up to putting it out without taking your eyes off the road, I would wager if you can't handle smoking a cigarette and driving you probably shouldn't be driving in the first place. It's nowhere near as bad as using a mobile, I'd put it on a level with eating Wine Gums if I'm honest. Can't say I've ever filled the cabin up with smoke either, as I tend to buy cars with this wonderous new invention called windows, which you can crack open and the smoke disappears out. Amazing stuff.
I do see many over the years that cannot do this, they wake up to the real world as the butt is flicked out the window then wonder why there is a sort of organised chaos in their vicinity. I tend to notice this in the limited van as they will often vary speeds down to my speed.Then there is the scrabble for the fag in your lap...... has it gone out window, where has the ash gone.... burning end in your lap.... seen quite a few over the years.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff