Non fault claim - affecting my insurance premiums

[BORN2bWILD]

LoonR1 said:

I've no idea what point you're making. Admiral offer far more than UK car insurance, as stated in the article. They also own confused.com which makes a lot of money. You can post snippet articles until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't alter the fact that since 1993, the industry, as a whole,has not made any underwriting profit on car insurance.

Why don't you explain what your experience of the past 40 years is then. To me it seems like you're a repairer amd not much else.

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You obviously have a low opinion of vehicle bodyshops and the many skilled qualified tradesman who work in them, this displays pure ignorance on your part.

You refuse to read what I have posted to understand that I have owned my own business and managed a bodyshop for a national chain of garages, again displaying ignorance.

You ignore the fact only last week I negotiated with an insurance company to resolve a situation where they were clearly attempting to rip of a 75 year old women who was wheelchair bound, the insurance company had left her confused and concerned she might lose her wheelchair adapted vehicle. I resolved the situation not to get the work, but to stop the insurance company taking advantage of the women who was a friend of a member of the local church. She already had someone to do the repairs for £1200 but to my surprise asked me to do it instead.

I have negotiated and dealt with insurance companies and engineers for over 40 years, the above was just one more example of the insurance company attempting to maximus profit by ripping someone off, until I got involved.

I have posted details of profit figures etc for insurance companies along with detailed reports on how they continue to rip off and con the public, yet you ignore this.

As I said earlier some people simply can't handle the truth, you are obviously one of them.

[LoonR1]

BORN2bWILD said:

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You obviously have a low opinion of vehicle bodyshops and the many skilled qualified tradesman who work in them, this displays pure ignorance on your part.

You refuse to read what I have posted to understand that I have owned my own business and managed a bodyshop for a national chain of garages, again displaying ignorance.

You ignore the fact only last week I negotiated with an insurance company to resolve a situation where they were clearly attempting to rip of a 75 year old women who was wheelchair bound, the insurance company had left her confused and concerned she might lose her wheelchair adapted vehicle. I resolved the situation not to get the work, but to stop the insurance company taking advantage of the women who was a friend of a member of the local church. She already had someone to do the repairs for £1200 but to my surprise asked me to do it instead.

I have negotiated and dealt with insurance companies and engineers for over 40 years, the above was just one more example of the insurance company attempting to maximus profit by ripping someone off, until I got involved.

I have posted details of profit figures etc for insurance companies along with detailed reports on how they continue to rip off and con the public, yet you ignore this.

As I said earlier some people simply can't handle the truth, you are obviously one of them.

Amd I've quoted just as many reports showing that car insurance doesn't make an underwriting profit amd hasn't done so for over two decades, yet you continue to ignore that. I have no doubt that there is a skill in repairing a car, I can't do it. However, what you seem unwilling to accept is that there is a skill set within in insurance that is probably way beyond anything you've seen, or ever will see.

If you'd like to explain the reserving philosophies models amd also how we go about releasing those on run off, or how to price risk then that'd be a great start. Once you've done that we can move onto COR. Of course, these are mere financial details. Maybe, you could cover off the impact of Credit Hire, or the impact that the Access to Justice bill had on claims frequency. What about the more recent MOJ changes and the proposed future ones? Fraud? Amy thoughts on the differing types of fraud and how you'd combat that?

No, of course not. You come up,with a story, that may well be true about an old dear and hang your hat on that as the norm, which you should know is quite the opposite.

[BORN2bWILD]

LoonR1 said:

Amd I've quoted just as many reports showing that car insurance doesn't make an underwriting profit amd hasn't done so for over two decades, yet you continue to ignore that. I have no doubt that there is a skill in repairing a car, I can't do it. However, what you seem unwilling to accept is that there is a skill set within in insurance that is probably way beyond anything you've seen, or ever will see.

If you'd like to explain the reserving philosophies models amd also how we go about releasing those on run off, or how to price risk then that'd be a great start. Once you've done that we can move onto COR. Of course, these are mere financial details. Maybe, you could cover off the impact of Credit Hire, or the impact that the Access to Justice bill had on claims frequency. What about the more recent MOJ changes and the proposed future ones? Fraud? Amy thoughts on the differing types of fraud and how you'd combat that?

No, of course not. You come up,with a story, that may well be true about an old dear and hang your hat on that as the norm, which you should know is quite the opposite.

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So my 'story' might be true, very big of you to accept it might be.

Not a one off but just another in 40 years dealing with insurance companies.

Using insurance terminology makes you no more right than if I was to use car repairers terminology, it simply shows you have lost the debate and are using desperate tactics

Ref fraud, yes of course it goes on, I even attended a one day course and came top out of 11 in class and was offered a job as a fraud investigator, but being paid by the biggest fraudsters of all just didn't sit well with me.

[PurpleMoonlight]

If insurers have made consistent losses for 20 years, and I do not believe for a second they have, they only have themselves to blame as they decide what to charge people to cover the risk.

[LoonR1]

BORN2bWILD said:

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So my 'story' might be true, very big of you to accept it might be.

Not a one off but just another in 40 years dealing with insurance companies.

Using insurance terminology makes you no more right than if I was to use car repairers terminology, it simply shows you have lost the debate and are using desperate tactics

Ref fraud, yes of course it goes on, I even attended a one day course and came top out of 11 in class and was offered a job as a fraud investigator, but being paid by the biggest fraudsters of all just didn't sit well with me.

You really seem to be struggling with what I'm saying.

You are a car repairer
Your expertise is as a car repairer
This exposes you to insurers
This doesn't make you an expert on car insurance

Can you see this now? Until you accept that you see one small part of the insurance process and don't see the rest, the. You're just making yourself look daft. I have zero expertise in car repairs, I have never professed to. You though seem obsessed with claiming to know insurance inside out, when the side you so deal,with is an irrelevant cost in claims overall. Policyholder losses are by definition finite, whereas third party losses are technically infinite. That's where the money goes. And it has nothing to do with repairs.

[BORN2bWILD]

LoonR1 said:

You really seem to be struggling with what I'm saying.

You are a car repairer
Your expertise is as a car repairer
This exposes you to insurers
This doesn't make you an expert on car insurance

Can you see this now? Until you accept that you see one small part of the insurance process and don't see the rest, the. You're just making yourself look daft. I have zero expertise in car repairs, I have never professed to. You though seem obsessed with claiming to know insurance inside out, when the side you so deal,with is an irrelevant cost in claims overall. Policyholder losses are by definition finite, whereas third party losses are technically infinite. That's where the money goes. And it has nothing to do with repairs.

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I am obviously wasting my breath with you as you are an insurance company man who refuses to accept figures even when they are quoted directly from the insurers ( as previously posted).

My experience within the repair side of dealing with insurance companies over the years has been one where the customer is far to often made to suffer to reduce repair costs and maximus insurance company profit... this has been my experience since being a 16 year old apprentice panel beater.

I have also dealt with insurance companies on a legal level to resolve issues, my experience has been that they often bully and trick innocent people to maximus profit.

[BobToc]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/ba...

Another motor insurance failure story.

[LoonR1]

BobToc said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/ba...

Another motor insurance failure story.

How dare people make money

Oh and for reference Hastings do quite a bit more than just car insurance. Obviously, don't let that get in the way of your socialism though

[LoonR1]

BORN2bWILD said:

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I am obviously wasting my breath with you as you are an insurance company man who refuses to accept figures even when they are quoted directly from the insurers ( as previously posted).

My experience within the repair side of dealing with insurance companies over the years has been one where the customer is far to often made to suffer to reduce repair costs and maximus insurance company profit... this has been my experience since being a 16 year old apprentice panel beater.

I have also dealt with insurance companies on a legal level to resolve issues, my experience has been that they often bully and trick innocent people to maximus profit.

And you have failed to accept the figures and reports that I've posted. I know the facts, because I'm inside that side of things at a senior level. You are a car repairer.

Oh and the word you're looking for is "maximise". Maximus probably means something in Latin.

[anonymous-user]

LoonR1 said:

And you have failed to accept the figures and reports that I've posted. I know the facts, because I'm inside that side of things at a senior level. You are a car repairer.

Oh and the word you're looking for is "maximise". Maximus probably means something in Latin.

To be fair though Loon, Insurance is about more than just underwriting profits. Cashflow is very strong and the cash can be used for other purposes.

You are undoubtedly correct though - pure underwriting profit has been very thin or non-existent in UK motor for a long time.

[BobToc]

LoonR1 said:

How dare people make money

Oh and for reference Hastings do quite a bit more than just car insurance. Obviously, don't let that get in the way of your socialism though

Its mostly motor, there's a bit of other stuff in there. Still, facts and socialism and all that.

[silverfoxcc]

insdurance companies work like this

You are standing in the pub when a bloke just punches you in the face for no reason. however the process of law does convict himYou get a black eye,the hospital costs his insurers pay for.
You do not tell your insurers as the other people have looked after everything.
Next year your insurance goes up 26 pounds bcause you got punched in the face and you in effect are paying for the privilege ( nothing to do with an ins co with the same name)
They think it is right ....as you may get punche in the face again.....WTF is that logic

Likewise i have had a heart attack followed by a 4 way by pass, the doctor ( my body mechanic) discharged me saying you are fitter and more healthy than 80% of other men. When i apply for travel insurance i get stuffed because of the MI, despite my protestations on
What the Doctor said
My new healthy lifestyle to keep me fit
Etc

They just shrug and say you had one you can have another

My argument on the fat overwieght obsese slobs the inhabit most of the UK at the moment have more chance than me of getting one, its the shrug again

Its all to do with number crunchers

[ging84]

Motor insurance is profitable, end of story, the rest is trivial accountancy bks.

The fact that much of the profit is loaded heavily into certain activities, leaving other activities looking completely unprofitable makes no difference to anyone outside of the industry

[PurpleMoonlight]

LoonR1 said:

And you have failed to accept the figures and reports that I've posted. I know the facts, because I'm inside that side of things at a senior level.

Starbucks doesn't make much profit either, apparently ....

[BORN2bWILD]

LoonR1 said:

How dare people make money

Oh and for reference Hastings do quite a bit more than just car insurance. Obviously, don't let that get in the way of your socialism though

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Spoken like a true right wing Tory, now that explains why you are fighting the corner of greedy insurance companies.

I was suspicious when you attempted to dismiss reports from solicitors regarding insurers making massive profits because you commented they were somehow associated with the Unite union... case of down the workers and up the bankers then?

[BORN2bWILD]

Regardless of what Looney Loon says on here back to the point:

OP had a small dink in a car park, 100% the other drivers fault who's insurer is paying the £173, so very minor damage.

OP is told he is now a higher risk and this justifies his insurer to increase his premium.

I say this is simply not true and another case of Loons insurance buddies ripping the innocent motorist off.

[PurpleMoonlight]

BORN2bWILD said:

Regardless of what Looney Loon says on here back to the point:

OP had a small dink in a car park, 100% the other drivers fault who's insurer is paying the £173, so very minor damage.

OP is told he is now a higher risk and this justifies his insurer to increase his premium.

I say this is simply not true and another case of Loons insurance buddies ripping the innocent motorist off.

I agree.

There is no logical reason why having a no fault claim should increase the likelihood of having a fault claim.

The insurers claim there is but refuse to publish the data of course, commercial sensitivity don't you know.

[ikarl]

BORN2bWILD said:

Regardless of what Looney Loon says on here back to the point:

OP had a small dink in a car park, 100% the other drivers fault who's insurer is paying the £173, so very minor damage.

OP is told he is now a higher risk and this justifies his insurer to increase his premium.

I say this is simply not true and another case of Loons insurance buddies ripping the innocent motorist off.

It's actually a little bit better (or worse) than that..... I didn't even want to claim for the £173! I've even told the insurance company that I'll live with the damage but that's it, it's on my record and it will financially impact me so I may as well claim the money

[BORN2bWILD]

ikarl said:

It's actually a little bit better (or worse) than that..... I didn't even want to claim for the £173! I've even told the insurance company that I'll live with the damage but that's it, it's on my record and it will financially impact me so I may as well claim the money

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I rest my case your honour....

[glasgowrob]

Got stuffed with a pair of non fault claims a few years back. Showed a clear price increase using comparison sites to both the third party insurers and the amc who dealt with my last claim and was told tough. So I've to suffer 5 years of increased premiums/reduced choice of insurer for something that is not my fault.

Insurance companies are utter ******** and it has left a very bitter taste for me seeing as I'm supposed to be left in the same position I was pre accident.