Letting Agency Taking Money Without Permission
Discussion
Hi all, just wanted to see what Ph made of this and where I possibly stand. The story is, we rented a flat with a big national letting agency at first for one year, then a second year. 3 months before it expires (August), we found another flat, which we took with a June move in date.
The lease documents for the old flat stated nothing about early termination, but being a short assured tenancy, I am led to believe it is a 30 day notice period from either landlord or tenant. We had been issued a notice to quit and had made it clear we would not be renewing due to the landlord being unwilling to replace a window which would not close properly, which the guy he sent to "repair" it took one look and said it should be replaced, and that the landlord point blank refused to deal with a quite severe mould and damp issue. I rang the agency and spoke to them, they said we had to send an email expressing our wish. We did this immediately, but no reply. And no reply to the email asking if they had received the first.
So, I visited their office, with a hand written letter. this had gotten to 1 month before move in date. They were rude, aggressive and unhelpful. Telling me I should have emailed them months ago, and would not accept that I had already emailed. They said it was actually a 60 day notice period, which is stated nowhere in the lease documents, to which they replied "well you have to email in about that". So they are saying we are liable for the rent as we 'haven't given enough notice'. Naturally I demand to speak to the manager, who is always conveniently in a meeting whenever they make a hash of things and he is needed (same story with mould, damp and buggered window, he is always unavailable).
We finally agreed on a move out date, and were told at the checkout appointment to cancel the direct debit, which was done immediately. Now is where it gets interesting. A week later, they have set up a direct debit without my permission. Naturally, the manager is unavailable to talk, they "promise to get him to call back". I laughed at this point as they never call back. They also still have our deposit despite saying that the deposit scheme people would be in touch within 1 week to arrange deposit refund.
Im considering getting a solicitor involved in this, just wondered what PH thought before I do though, see if anyone had been in a similar situation. I don't know how it would go down, but I am considering invoicing them for my loss of earnings, as dealing with this has cost me valuable business, to the tune of £2000.
The lease documents for the old flat stated nothing about early termination, but being a short assured tenancy, I am led to believe it is a 30 day notice period from either landlord or tenant. We had been issued a notice to quit and had made it clear we would not be renewing due to the landlord being unwilling to replace a window which would not close properly, which the guy he sent to "repair" it took one look and said it should be replaced, and that the landlord point blank refused to deal with a quite severe mould and damp issue. I rang the agency and spoke to them, they said we had to send an email expressing our wish. We did this immediately, but no reply. And no reply to the email asking if they had received the first.
So, I visited their office, with a hand written letter. this had gotten to 1 month before move in date. They were rude, aggressive and unhelpful. Telling me I should have emailed them months ago, and would not accept that I had already emailed. They said it was actually a 60 day notice period, which is stated nowhere in the lease documents, to which they replied "well you have to email in about that". So they are saying we are liable for the rent as we 'haven't given enough notice'. Naturally I demand to speak to the manager, who is always conveniently in a meeting whenever they make a hash of things and he is needed (same story with mould, damp and buggered window, he is always unavailable).
We finally agreed on a move out date, and were told at the checkout appointment to cancel the direct debit, which was done immediately. Now is where it gets interesting. A week later, they have set up a direct debit without my permission. Naturally, the manager is unavailable to talk, they "promise to get him to call back". I laughed at this point as they never call back. They also still have our deposit despite saying that the deposit scheme people would be in touch within 1 week to arrange deposit refund.
Im considering getting a solicitor involved in this, just wondered what PH thought before I do though, see if anyone had been in a similar situation. I don't know how it would go down, but I am considering invoicing them for my loss of earnings, as dealing with this has cost me valuable business, to the tune of £2000.
If you were in a FIXED term, which your posts suggests and there is no mention of any break or early termination, this means that you are locked in for the FIXED term and are therefore legally bound to fulfill your obligation under the AST for the full term.
The Tenant can surrender keys and end the Tenancy on last day of the fixed term without any notice, although giving some notice will inevitably make the hand over process alot smoother. However by the sounds of things you are contractually locked in for a few more months.
If the tenancy was not a fixed term but a statutory perioidc Tenancy you would be required to give one months written notice, which would take effect from a rent due date. The landlord would have to supply you with at least 2 months notice should they wish to end the Tenancy.
In terms of the rent payment are you sure it was a Direct Debit and not a standing order. There is a huge difference in these two forms of payment. A standing order is you giving your bank an order to pay the payee on a regular basis and only you can alter/cancel this. A direct debit on the otherhand is an instruction from you to your bank and it authorises the company you want to pay, to collect varying amounts from your account.
If it was a standing order this is your fault! Regardless, they should of course still return the money to you (maybe less a small fee dependening on their Terms of Business) without unecessary delay. If it was a direct debit and the money wasn't due, they are at fault and should also return the money in full without any delay. However, bear in mind if it is a direct debit you could get this simply sorted under the DD guarantee scheme. In this case just speak with your bank and make them aware that a payment was taken without your acceptance.
What scheme is the deposit protected with? Have the agency shared a copy of the check out report with you or notified you of any discrepancies which they may be seeking a deduction for?
Finally, you will only be wasting your time further if you decide to 'invoice' them for your 'loss of earnings. I really can't see how you would have lost £2000 worth of business over this!
The Tenant can surrender keys and end the Tenancy on last day of the fixed term without any notice, although giving some notice will inevitably make the hand over process alot smoother. However by the sounds of things you are contractually locked in for a few more months.
If the tenancy was not a fixed term but a statutory perioidc Tenancy you would be required to give one months written notice, which would take effect from a rent due date. The landlord would have to supply you with at least 2 months notice should they wish to end the Tenancy.
In terms of the rent payment are you sure it was a Direct Debit and not a standing order. There is a huge difference in these two forms of payment. A standing order is you giving your bank an order to pay the payee on a regular basis and only you can alter/cancel this. A direct debit on the otherhand is an instruction from you to your bank and it authorises the company you want to pay, to collect varying amounts from your account.
If it was a standing order this is your fault! Regardless, they should of course still return the money to you (maybe less a small fee dependening on their Terms of Business) without unecessary delay. If it was a direct debit and the money wasn't due, they are at fault and should also return the money in full without any delay. However, bear in mind if it is a direct debit you could get this simply sorted under the DD guarantee scheme. In this case just speak with your bank and make them aware that a payment was taken without your acceptance.
What scheme is the deposit protected with? Have the agency shared a copy of the check out report with you or notified you of any discrepancies which they may be seeking a deduction for?
Finally, you will only be wasting your time further if you decide to 'invoice' them for your 'loss of earnings. I really can't see how you would have lost £2000 worth of business over this!
Edited by TheHound on Tuesday 30th June 21:56
Yeah, as above, it is was DD get the bank to reverse it.
After an agent messed me around in a damp ridden flat, damaging property and meaning I couldn't love there for half the time (still paying) they even took the next payment the week I moved out and refused to refund as "the landlord has no money".
I sent recorded delivery letters saying I was seeking my costs and damages back, they just happened to total all I'd paid...
I'd already moved out and successfully had the tenancy torn up after 10 weeks, had my deposit back in full...when I had no reply I did a DD chargeback and got all the money I'd ever paid refunded...the agent will chase, as it comes from their account, I just gave them the excuse they'd given me...sort it out with the landlord.
Heard nothing more beyond a letter or 2 (to my, less forceful, GF whom I instructed to bin them as they were non-recorded)
After an agent messed me around in a damp ridden flat, damaging property and meaning I couldn't love there for half the time (still paying) they even took the next payment the week I moved out and refused to refund as "the landlord has no money".
I sent recorded delivery letters saying I was seeking my costs and damages back, they just happened to total all I'd paid...
I'd already moved out and successfully had the tenancy torn up after 10 weeks, had my deposit back in full...when I had no reply I did a DD chargeback and got all the money I'd ever paid refunded...the agent will chase, as it comes from their account, I just gave them the excuse they'd given me...sort it out with the landlord.
Heard nothing more beyond a letter or 2 (to my, less forceful, GF whom I instructed to bin them as they were non-recorded)
JimbobVFR said:
elanfan said:
No one can set up A DD on your account without your signature so that bit of your story just doesn't add up.
That's not true. I've thought forvavwhile now that the DD scheme is pretty lax security wise.Bert
elanfan said:
No one can set up A DD on your account without your signature so that bit of your story just doesn't add up.
Try telling that to Clarkson!http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7174760.stm
_dobbo_ said:
elanfan said:
No one can set up A DD on your account without your signature so that bit of your story just doesn't add up.
Try telling that to Clarkson!http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7174760.stm
This is why i never "renew" a contract but go onto a rolling AST. Landlords prefer it. Agencies hate it because by forcing you to renew for fixed periods they can charge you a rip off fee as well as they know full well that most peoples lives and schedules for moving house dont revolve around tenancy fixed terms so they know chances are for the right house you will go early meaning they can rape you for rent for early termination.
Psycho Warren said:
This is why i never "renew" a contract but go onto a rolling AST. Landlords prefer it. Agencies hate it because by forcing you to renew for fixed periods they can charge you a rip off fee as well as they know full well that most peoples lives and schedules for moving house dont revolve around tenancy fixed terms so they know chances are for the right house you will go early meaning they can rape you for rent for early termination.
Landlords generally don't prefer it. In most cases they prefer to have the knowledge that their tenant is secured for a further fixed term. In my experience about 75% of tenants also prefer fixed terms as it offers them security of Tenancy. It removes any unnecessary worry that they could get, at the drop of a hat, just 2 months notice to leave.
Finally, not all agents charge excessive renewal fees - we charge a small fee to Landlords to cover costs and 99% of the time waive any fee to the Tenant.
Edited by TheHound on Wednesday 1st July 16:34
martinbiz said:
_dobbo_ said:
elanfan said:
No one can set up A DD on your account without your signature so that bit of your story just doesn't add up.
Try telling that to Clarkson!http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7174760.stm
https://gocardless.com/direct-debit/mandates/
http://www.bacs.co.uk/Bacs/Businesses/DirectDebit/...
There is nothing to stop an Originator who has been accredited by their Bank for Paperless DDs creating a new one (probably using the Telephone option in this case) after the account holder has cancelled the old one. Dodgy as
but difficult to prove it wasn't a 'clerical error'.The OP should initiate an indemnity claim with his Bank on the basis 'payer disputes having given authority'. An Originator using Paperless DD cannot lodge a counterclaim.
But...
DanB7290 said:
We finally agreed on a move out date, and were told at the checkout appointment to cancel the direct debit, which was done immediately. Now is where it gets interesting. A week later, they have set up a direct debit without my permission.
Told to cancel by whom and from when exactly? The crux of this is whether you did so before the final rent payment was due under the AST. Leaving early does not let you off paying for the whole period. Did the landlord or their agent agree to a surrender AND a waiver of payment for the remaining months?https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=...
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