Sirens at 11.30PM

[Devil2575]

stuart313 said:

So the experts say I'm right and the know it all's say I'm wrong, never have guessed that one.

The experts say you're right? Are you sure?

[mph1977]

JumboBeef said:

I drive a rapid responce vehicle (ambulance). Everything I do is logged, speed, breaking, indicators, normal lights etc. Dash cam, blue (and rear reds) and sirens.

When dispatched to an emergency it is policy to use blue lights all the time. Sirens "as required".

I try very hard not to use sirens at night but, if I have an accident the very first they will look at is "did you have the siren on?"

Night time mean empty roads so you can often travel a lot quicker than during the day. This leads to dilemma of higher speed but no sirens........

No emergency driver uses the sirens (or bull horn) for fun. To be honest, I get sick of the damn noise myself and I'm the one driving!

the reality of emergency driving

also the employer will be looking at a way to protect themselves and managers are all ways o nthe look out for a way to prove they are 'taking care of business' and if there;s no obvious fluffyness awards going in their tieam that makes sacrifical lamb time ...

[mph1977]

Martin_M said:

<snip>

On another note, I've always thought that being a rapid response driver would be the ultimate 'move' as a fully qualified paramedic. How do you get that position? Is it based on years service or do you have to sit exams? I would imagine the competition for such posts is high.

RRV = orcon bh

the prestigious posts are Air ambulance, HART or advanced practice

[Rude-boy]

HantsRat said:

Rude-boy said:

I suspect that there are different 'standing orders' within individual areas of the services as to correct use within the law and regulation and that these vary.

There are no rules/laws as to when you can and can't use sirens. It's just common sense not to use them if you don't need to at night. If approaching junctions etc then they are still needed at night even if you cannot see a vehicle.

Cheers for clearing that up.

TBH I have zero issues with noise - as others have said imagine if it was you or one of your loved ones they were on the way to. It just seems that there are some that give a little more thought to the peripheries of their job and the impact on others than others.

As the saying goes - the biggest problem with common sense is that it isn't that common!

[JumboBeef]

mph1977 said:

RRV = orcon bh

the prestigious posts are Air ambulance, HART or advanced practice

Air ambulance: arrive after patient sorted, PTS to hospital.
HART: lots and lots of training but very little real work.
Advanced Practice: treating Doris' urinary infection.

I'll stick with my bh thanks

Edit due to fat fingers on phone.

Edited by JumboBeef on Friday 3rd July 14:12

[JumboBeef]

Rude-boy said:

As the saying goes - the biggest problem with common sense is that it isn't that common!

Or no sense at all:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-1199...

[DMN]

Devil2575 said:

stuart313 said:

So the experts say I'm right and the know it all's say I'm wrong, never have guessed that one.

The experts say you're right? Are you sure?

In his head he is always right.

[rogerhudson]

hippy82 said:

The only way it can be stopped is if all crime stops. Police don't blue light for fun you know.

Really?,, i once saw a procession of seven ( yes, seven in a row) police cars driving fast in Church Street N16, all with B&2, i just wondered why the five at the rear needed them?
I used to like the Whitworth bell (gong?).
I was once driving across a 'blind' (due to very close buildings) junction on the A10 N16 on green light when a fire engine shot past my bonnet (jumped on red), often modern soundproofed cars with Bose stereo don't allow you to hear sirens well, expect them. I go for six months never hearing a siren and then arriving in the UK I always hear one within 20 minutes.

Edited by rogerhudson on Friday 3rd July 19:50

Edited by rogerhudson on Friday 3rd July 19:51

[soad]

Had a helicopter (police, not military!) flying overhead (with a searchlight on!) well into the early hours...
Doesn't happen too often though.

[Who me ?]

To siren ,or not to Siren. Tough choice. Especially if the lads in Blue are called to a break in with intruder on premises. We had this regularly - break-in spotted, 999, police dispatched on B & T. By time car arrived in street, thief was out and away. Happened regularly, till we had one of our beat lads in street one day and he waited outside. Sure enough, as soon as siren was loud enough, they tried to get out, straight into waiting arms. After that ,there were words form our beat lad to SGT, backed up by County man to police HQ, nd last part of trip was made on lights. Bit slower, but like the old proverb-"softee ,softee, catchee monkey", the catch up rate increased, and at the sound of any siren anywhere we noticed certain young lads being a lot more careful of breaking in.

[Bigends]

[quote=Who me ?]To siren ,or not to Siren. Tough choice. Especially if the lads in Blue are called to a break in with intruder on premises. We had this regularly - break-in spotted, 999, police dispatched on B & T. By time car arrived in street, thief was out and away. Happened regularly, till we had one of our beat lads in street one day and he waited outside. Sure enough, as soon as siren was loud enough, they tried to get out, straight into waiting arms. After that ,there were words form our beat lad to SGT, backed up by County man to police HQ, nd last part of trip was made on lights. Bit slower, but like the old proverb-"softee ,softee, catchee monkey", the catch up rate increased, and at the sound of any siren anywhere we noticed certain young lads being a lot more careful of breaking in.
[/quote]
We'd often go for 'silent approach' on nights

[Greendubber]

Which is great until the fleeing burglar runs out under your car and you drop in the st because he couldn't hear your vehicle. Maybe an extreme example but currently any reason to fk bobbies off is being exploited.

I'll be all or nothing now, no blues and twos then no extra pace.

[robinessex]

Sirens? Use as required I suppose. Big judgement call though.

[Greendubber]

robinessex said:

Sirens? Use as required I suppose. Big judgement call though.

And whichever choice you make there will be people telling you otherwise.

Its all about self preservation for me know, I'd happily never drive another police vehicle if I could get away with it!

[p1esk]

JumboBeef said:

I drive a rapid responce vehicle (ambulance). Everything I do is logged, speed, breaking, indicators, normal lights etc. Dash cam, blue (and rear reds) and sirens.

When dispatched to an emergency it is policy to use blue lights all the time. Sirens "as required".

I try very hard not to use sirens at night but, if I have an accident the very first they will look at is "did you have the siren on?"

Night time mean empty roads so you can often travel a lot quicker than during the day. This leads to dilemma of higher speed but no sirens........

No emergency driver uses the sirens (or bull horn) for fun. To be honest, I get sick of the damn noise myself and I'm the one driving!

That, if I may say so, sounds like a sensible approach. I appreciate what Stuart is saying, which seems to be asking if the sirens are sometimes being used as a matter of routine, whereas a fast and safe response doesn't need them all the time. It seems like a legitmate question/complaint.

[jaf01uk]

Greendubber said:

Which is great until the fleeing burglar runs out under your car and you drop in the st because he couldn't hear your vehicle. Maybe an extreme example but currently any reason to fk bobbies off is being exploited.

I'll be all or nothing now, no blues and twos then no extra pace.

And there folks is the reason that burglary detections are on the decline, they tell the burglars they're coming, who mentioned common sense earlier?

[focusxr5]

If I'm going anywhere at speed I always have the sirens on with the blues, regardless of the time of day or night. Driving at speed and with blues and sirens on is the personal choice of the driver based on dynamic risk assessment against the incident they're travelling to therefore if I have them switched on you can bet I need to be where I'm going pretty bloody urgently. I know of a few people who have been prosecuted following a collision or complaint because their blues were on but their sirens were not. There was a thread on here not so long ago where an ARV went through a traffic light and hit someone. Fair enough the OP in that thread claimed that the BMW X5 had switched it's blues on late but one of the arguments was that he didn't have his sirens on. Even so, you'd be surprised how many people can miss a whacking great big marked up 4x4 barrelling towards them.

Bottom line is that if I'm going somewhere with my siren blaring then I'm trying to get to someone who needs my help urgently. I can't help that person if I crash because a myopic moron missed the lights but would have reacted to the siren. I also have a duty to my wife to stay in a job and pay the bills and mortgage etc. Call me selfish if you want, but if me causing you a few minutes worth of inconvenience once in a while means I can help people who need it AND keep my job and livelihood, tough.

[northwest monkey]

stuart313 said:

So you are saying I have to be woken up every single night for the rest of my life because scum bags do what they want? It not always circa 11PM either sometimes its 3 or 4 in the morning.

Move house then.

[JumboBeef]

focusxr5 said:

If I'm going anywhere at speed I always have the sirens on with the blues, regardless of the time of day or night. Driving at speed and with blues and sirens on is the personal choice of the driver based on dynamic risk assessment against the incident they're travelling to therefore if I have them switched on you can bet I need to be where I'm going pretty bloody urgently. I know of a few people who have been prosecuted following a collision or complaint because their blues were on but their sirens were not. There was a thread on here not so long ago where an ARV went through a traffic light and hit someone. Fair enough the OP in that thread claimed that the BMW X5 had switched it's blues on late but one of the arguments was that he didn't have his sirens on. Even so, you'd be surprised how many people can miss a whacking great big marked up 4x4 barrelling towards them.

Bottom line is that if I'm going somewhere with my siren blaring then I'm trying to get to someone who needs my help urgently. I can't help that person if I crash because a myopic moron missed the lights but would have reacted to the siren. I also have a duty to my wife to stay in a job and pay the bills and mortgage etc. Call me selfish if you want, but if me causing you a few minutes worth of inconvenience once in a while means I can help people who need it AND keep my job and livelihood, tough.

I worked a night shift last night (and again tonight) working on an RRV in a city centre. I had 10 emergency drives, about 7 of these were after 10pm.

Not once did I use the siren. One of the jobs was to a poorly kid (who was blued into hospital afterwards) so I needed to get there asap. But still I did not feel I had to use the siren. Just taking the edge off the speed approaching any hazards was more than made up for on long straights.

The thread you are talking about where the OP got T boned by a police car, the police car made the classic mistake of barrelling through a red light at a speed where he was unable to stop (blue lights or sirens aside): treat red lights as give way. At give ways, you have to be able to stop safely.

You know about red mist, and speeding through hazards at a speed where you can't stop but with your siren on as some sort of defence if it goes pair shaped fits the discription of red mist to a tee.

[Greendubber]

jaf01uk said:

And there folks is the reason that burglary detections are on the decline, they tell the burglars they're coming, who mentioned common sense earlier?

To put it bluntly I couldn't give a st about burglary detections but what I do give a st about is my own welfare and ability to provide an income.

Currently people I know are being dragged over hot coals for pursuit related bullst and driving grade gripes and I can't be fked with it. They are expected by management to do a job but aren't being allowed to because people of rank are changing the goal posts and hanging people out to dry.

Will you pay my bills if I run someone down without sirens because if a judge or jury think I should have turned them on I'm fked.