Where do I stand ?

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Discussion

Turn7

Original Poster:

23,502 posts

220 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
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Started work with a new firm in November.
December they put me though my fork lift test.
May I leave as have sorted another job as intial promises from interview not forthcoming.

Company will not forward on FLT licence and has denied professional training firm selling me a copy.

Where do I stand legally on obtaining proof that I have taken approved training and passed ?

Willy Nilly

12,511 posts

166 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
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almost certainly on a data base somewhere. You could of course pay them some or all of the money for the training.

I have seen some certificated FLT drivers eek

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
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What organisation issues the licences? Is this a regulatory thing, or just an industry standard, with certification by private bodies that the industry accepts?

matjk

1,101 posts

139 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
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offer to pay towards the cost of the training you received, maybe a token gesture would help get a copy. I can see why the old employer has the hump, they paid and now someone else will benefit. Would new company pay for you to do the test again ?

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
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I see from a quick Google that there are some regulations that the industry refers to as LOLER, and a Code of Practice made under the Health and Safety at Work Act, but I infer from a very rapid shufty at the HSE website that there is not a State licensing body. I may be wrong on this, but I am too busy watching VEEP and posting rubbish on Facebook to look it up further just now.

If there is a private body that granted the licence, operating under the code of practice, you could try a data subject access request to that body. This means you ask the licensing body to tell you what info it has about you. You have to pay a few quid for this.

Turn7

Original Poster:

23,502 posts

220 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
What organisation issues the licences? Is this a regulatory thing, or just an industry standard, with certification by private bodies that the industry accepts?
I think its just industry approved.

The training firm were :

http://jcoates.co.uk/

mph1977

12,467 posts

167 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
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Breadvan72 said:
What organisation issues the licences? Is this a regulatory thing, or just an industry standard, with certification by private bodies that the industry accepts?
foirklift 'licences' aren;t licences in a statutory sense (unless you drive road registered ones but even then they are either 'works trucks'/ self propelled plant/ agricultural impediments ...)

it may be that the external training body doesn't actual register training they do for that employer with an awardign body ... I've worked for organisations where everything was internal even driving Shunter tractors ( except for the 2 designated Shunters who could move containers/ trailers between the 2 sites on the same large industrial estate - they were LGV licence holders).

imagineifyeswill

1,224 posts

165 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
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There is no national awarding body for qualification to operate forklift trucks as far as I know, its all done by private companies much like LGV/PCV training which is nowhere near as regulated as learning to drive a car. LOLER regulations apply to the testing off the forklift itself nothing to do with the operators.

petkar

79 posts

170 months

Monday 6th July 2015
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My company take any training costs from your wages if you leave within 6 months of that training.

maurauth

749 posts

169 months

Monday 6th July 2015
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petkar said:
My company take any training costs from your wages if you leave within 6 months of that training.
That sounds a bit risky, IANAL but surely there's some scope for the right person to take that one and test it in court.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 6th July 2015
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Fairly standard contractual term, in IT at least. Training is expensive.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 6th July 2015
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In some circumstances, such a term could be unenforceable as an unreasonable restraint of trade, but in many if not most cases such a term would be reasonable.

R0G

4,984 posts

154 months

Monday 6th July 2015
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Can you remember who the awarding body was - such as RTITB etc ?

maurauth

749 posts

169 months

Monday 6th July 2015
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charltjr said:
Fairly standard contractual term, in IT at least. Training is expensive.
Totally agree, we spend plenty on new starters and if they leave we're left quite out of pocket.

However I'm sure a blanket rule on recovering training costs probably wouldn't be classed as a fair term in 100% of leaver situations.

Most of the time, maybe but I guess the amount they save overall by recovering all costs would offset the odd person challenging it.

daveenty

2,357 posts

209 months

Monday 6th July 2015
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No idea of the legal aspect though, as I run an accredited training company and one of the courses we offer is forklift training, can explain how it works with us.

We are contracted by the employer to run a training course for X amount of their personnel. Successful candidates are registered on a national database, which is administered by our governing body (ITSSAR in our case, could be AITT or RTITB, so many acronyms smile). These governing bodies have no access to the certificate itself, only the information that the person has attended a course and a certificate has been issued.

Certificates are then issued by ourselves, though these go to the company itself, not the employee. This is for the reasons mentioned above. A few years ago we used to issue them to the individual, who would then leave and go to work elsewhere for an extra few pounds/pence per hour, so most of the companies we contract to stopped this.

My largest client have requested that we no longer issue certificates, apart from on some specialised machinery which we provide training for, and we keep electronic records instead. This eliminates the problem where people want to leave and take them with them.

I have been asked several times over the years by employees if a duplicate can be issued, but as we have no contract with them, then this request is usually denied as we like to keep on good terms with the actual company itself and not the individual.

ETA: All I could suggest to the OP is that he ask the company if they would accept a small payment for his certificate as a token of goodwill. THis may or may not work.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 6th July 2015
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The employer needs to be able to show the HSE in the event of any trouble that it (the employer) has competent people to drive the lifts. It could satisfy itself as to competence by doing or buying in training, or checking on previous training. If the new employer is really too tight to re certify the OP, the solution for the OP may be to make a data subject access request to the company that has the information about his previous training.

R0G

4,984 posts

154 months

Monday 6th July 2015
quotequote all
Just spoke to a FLT/LGV training company who I know well and the FLT licence belongs to the bill payer

Should have waited until you had the licence in your hand then parted with the company

I did wonder about this as I thought it was the same as a driving licence where the named person had the ownership of it but as I now know that is not the case

mph1977

12,467 posts

167 months

Monday 6th July 2015
quotequote all
R0G said:
Just spoke to a FLT/LGV training company who I know well and the FLT licence belongs to the bill payer

Should have waited until you had the licence in your hand then parted with the company

I did wonder about this as I thought it was the same as a driving licence where the named person had the ownership of it but as I now know that is not the case
interestingly, when First Aid training was approved by the HSE, they were very clear that the certificate belonged to the individual (or was in the grant of the awarding body to the individual - like 'real' examination / graduation certs) and not the person who had paid for the training

55palfers

5,893 posts

163 months

Monday 6th July 2015
quotequote all
mph1977 said:
interestingly, when First Aid training was approved by the HSE, they were very clear that the certificate belonged to the individual (or was in the grant of the awarding body to the individual - like 'real' examination / graduation certs) and not the person who had paid for the training
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/l74.htm

The Regs are very specific about FA training. FLT training and "licence" is just a convenient way to prove that the employee is competent to operate the equipment. There is no specific Reg for FLT like FA

mph1977

12,467 posts

167 months

Monday 6th July 2015
quotequote all
55palfers said:
mph1977 said:
interestingly, when First Aid training was approved by the HSE, they were very clear that the certificate belonged to the individual (or was in the grant of the awarding body to the individual - like 'real' examination / graduation certs) and not the person who had paid for the training
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/l74.htm

The Regs are very specific about FA training. FLT training and "licence" is just a convenient way to prove that the employee is competent to operate the equipment. There is no specific Reg for FLT like FA
the point of the thread distilled ...