Is it illegal to wedge a fuel pump open

[Hugo a Gogo]

more risk is surely caused by vapour escaping, if it's escaping in large doses

I don't want to stand there inhaling benzene

[Roo]

Hugo a Gogo said:

more risk is surely caused by vapour escaping, if it's escaping in large doses

I don't want to stand there inhaling benzene

Which is why the US pumps are so good.

Th vapour collection part of the pump means the nozzle locks onto the filler neck. Click the pump open and leave it fill up.

[silentbrown]

ruggedscotty said:

If you flex a phone enough you will cause arcs at the battery contacts

Don't think so: Paschen's law kicks in, and -in air- you'd need over 300V at STP for arcing to occur.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen%27s_law

[Rangeroverover]

I find my mobile phone fits just right into the handle. All I need now is a method to hold the button on the LPG filler

[tiggerjaguar]

The poster who made the comments about EX rating is absolutely correct, no question . That's why we employ only those organisations who specifically have hazardous area trained operatives.

Latched nozzles using pins etc are a thing of the past on spirit dispensers. Diesel differs.

For those of you who use various nondescript methods to hold the trigger back please let me know where you fill up so I can avoid you .

[ruggedscotty]

sooooooooo whats that with battery connections when jumping a 12v battery....

[MrsMiggins]

Hugo a Gogo said:

more risk is surely caused by vapour escaping, if it's escaping in large doses

I don't want to stand there inhaling benzene

In the UK the easiest way to minimise this is to choose a busy petrol station and ensure that the nozzle is fully inserted in the filler. The stage 2 VR system in place at busier stations (busy being somewhere around 3 million litres a year) does a good job of containing the vapour and returning it to the underground tanks - they're somewhere around 85% efficient.

[silentbrown]

ruggedscotty said:

sooooooooo whats that with battery connections when jumping a 12v battery....

Good question I think it's basically this:-

Someone smarter than me said:

Low-voltage arcing is due to physical opening of a contact,where the contact area reduces as the contact approaches the break of connection. When the contact area reduces, the current density increases to the point where the metal melts and then sprays away due to the EMF in the molten conductor. Then, the combination of the molten metal and the current density superheats the surrounding air to the point where the air breaks down due to the heat and a visible arc (in air) occurs.

This is not a function of the voltage across the contact, but the current through the contact.

Not sure how much current that needs to happen, but I'd be surprised if the typical draw of a mobile phone would do it. Anyhow, you'd have to 'flex' a phone practically in half to get the battery contacts to separate, by which time the entire circuit board could be destroyed.

Also, I'd reckon having a car with all those high-voltage coils, high current circuits and ultra high temperatures would be 1000 times riskier than anything a mobile phone could do.

[ruggedscotty]

Lithium ion cells are pretty much high current density - Ive had a look at a couple of phone batteries and can assure you that if you short a battery it generates enough spark. Im not saying every phone what I was saying was that 'in the perfect storm' there is enough energy available from the contacts of a phone battery to create a spark of enough density to ignite. they did tests on this and its in documentation regarding the safety of mobile phones - its also one of the reasons that you will have your phones taken from you when you go into any chemical facility that processes volatiles. the risk outweighs the need to have a phone in a hazardous area.

[silentbrown]

ruggedscotty said:

Ive had a look at a couple of phone batteries and can assure you that if you short a battery it generates enough spark.

Defintely. But that wouldn't happen just by flexing the phone, surely? Point is, there's no evidence that using a mobile has ever caused a fire during fuelling, or even could, without disassembly.

I understand there are 'Ex' rated smartphones, but I'd be very curious about what changes -if any- were required to get the certification. They still have sizeable li-on batteries.

Static (and stupidity) seem to be the predominant causes of refuelling fires. Phones may be involved in these but I don't see them as a source of ignition.

[mcdjl]

I can wedge the fuel pump with my filler cap. It holds enough to get the tank until the first click, at which point the click release still happens, so it just saves me holding it but is no more dangerous.

[4rephill]

Years ago (we are talking "back in the day" here - It was that long ago!), I had a mate who used to borrow his dads Series 3 Jaguar XJ12.

Whenever he had to fill it with petrol, he used to park it slap bang in the middle of two sets of petrol pumps, place a pump nozzle from each side into the twin fillers, click and lock them on and then lean against the boot lid looking at the waiting (fuming) drivers whilst the tanks were being filled.

As young lads we used to think this was quite funny! - Now we're older we can see now that it was actually just being an annoying wr!

(And I'm amazed no one ever kicked seven bells of st out of him!)

Personally speaking, I can't see what the problem is with having to hold the trigger open to fill your car, it's not exactly the hardest task in the World!

(And with one of My cars you wouldn't be able to fill the car by jamming the trigger anyway as you have to hold the nozzle at a stupid angle to fill the car, otherwise the nozzle cuts out every 5 seconds! ).

Added to that, if something did go wrong with wedging the nozzle open (the fuel cut off failing for some reason resulting in a fuel spillage over the forecourt or a fire), then I'm pretty sure you could be prosecuted for tampering with a safety device.