Alleged failure to notify DVLA of change of owner

Alleged failure to notify DVLA of change of owner

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Discussion

monthefish

Original Poster:

20,439 posts

230 months

Thursday 16th July 2015
quotequote all
Has anyone had a court summons (and offer to pay out of court extortion settlement) for the above?

Situation as follows (as simple and uncomplicated as it sounds):
- cheap car ( <£1k ) sold via ebay.
- Deposit paid by buyer immediately via paypal.
- Buyer collects car a week or so later, paying cash for the balance.
- V5 filled in at this time, main bit sent to DVLA, new keeper takes supplement (and the car).


A few months later, court summons received for failure to notify the DVLA.



HantsRat

2,368 posts

107 months

Thursday 16th July 2015
quotequote all
How long after the car was collected did you post the V5 off?

monthefish

Original Poster:

20,439 posts

230 months

Thursday 16th July 2015
quotequote all
The next day or so.

HantsRat

2,368 posts

107 months

Thursday 16th July 2015
quotequote all
In that case just reply saying you sent the V5 off the next day.

Retroman

961 posts

132 months

Thursday 16th July 2015
quotequote all
Is there not some information on the V5 that says DVLA will notify you within X days / weeks when you are no longer the keeper of the vehicle and if you don't receive this confirmation you should chase it up with them?

Porkbrain

406 posts

236 months

Thursday 16th July 2015
quotequote all
Retroman said:
Is there not some information on the V5 that says DVLA will notify you within X days / weeks when you are no longer the keeper of the vehicle and if you don't receive this confirmation you should chase it up with them?
Yes, having just sold a car, the slip that you return to DVLA says that they will notify you that you are no longer the registered keeper within 4 weeks, and that you should contact them if you haven't received notification.

The refund for the remaining VED arrived in a separate letter the same day as the notification confirmation.

Edited by Porkbrain on Thursday 16th July 12:29

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Thursday 16th July 2015
quotequote all
Retroman said:
Is there not some information on the V5 that says DVLA will notify you within X days / weeks when you are no longer the keeper of the vehicle and if you don't receive this confirmation you should chase it up with them?
There is - but whilst it's certainly a wise precaution, it's not a legal requirement.

B'stard Child

28,320 posts

245 months

Thursday 16th July 2015
quotequote all
monthefish said:
Has anyone had a court summons (and offer to pay out of court extortion settlement) for the above?

Situation as follows (as simple and uncomplicated as it sounds):
- cheap car ( <£1k ) sold via ebay.
- Deposit paid by buyer immediately via paypal.
- Buyer collects car a week or so later, paying cash for the balance.
- V5 filled in at this time, main bit sent to DVLA, new keeper takes supplement (and the car).


A few months later, court summons received for failure to notify the DVLA.
Was it taxed? Lack of refund cheque would have set alarm bells ringing for me...

Doesn't matter anyway - if you posted the V5 off to DVLA (even normal post) you've complied with the legislation

Do you still have the buyers details? If so ask if he has a Reg doc yet? I would think that he's probably had to apply for one using the green slip and it's for a while ago so DVLA think they've caught a live one wink

monthefish

Original Poster:

20,439 posts

230 months

Thursday 16th July 2015
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
Retroman said:
Is there not some information on the V5 that says DVLA will notify you within X days / weeks when you are no longer the keeper of the vehicle and if you don't receive this confirmation you should chase it up with them?
There is - but whilst it's certainly a wise precaution, it's not a legal requirement.
Yes, in hindsight, knowing how feckless and incompetent the DVLA are, I perhaps should have done this, but this failing is hardly worth a court summons.

Red Devil

13,055 posts

207 months

Thursday 16th July 2015
quotequote all
monthefish said:
Has anyone had a court summons (and offer to pay out of court extortion settlement) for the above?

Situation as follows (as simple and uncomplicated as it sounds):
- cheap car ( <£1k ) sold via ebay.
- Deposit paid by buyer immediately via paypal.
- Buyer collects car a week or so later, paying cash for the balance.
- V5 filled in at this time, main bit sent to DVLA, new keeper takes supplement (and the car).


A few months later, court summons received for failure to notify the DVLA.
Are you sure it is a summons not a Requisition? - http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/showthread.php...
Also there are intermediate steps before it gets to that stage. It would seem you have ignored them. Why?

However given where you now are, my advice is that you're asking in the wrong place. Go to Pepipoo/MSE/CAG.
You will need to give more detail and should expect to be asked some questions.
Be straight with your answers otherwise you won't go down well. Time wasters are given short shrift.

Sheepshanks

32,519 posts

118 months

Thursday 16th July 2015
quotequote all
Porkbrain said:
Retroman said:
Is there not some information on the V5 that says DVLA will notify you within X days / weeks when you are no longer the keeper of the vehicle and if you don't receive this confirmation you should chase it up with them?
Yes, having just sold a car, the slip that you return to DVLA says that they will notify you that you are no longer the registered keeper within 4 weeks, and that you should contact them if you haven't received notification.

The refund for the remaining VED arrived in a separate letter the same day as the notification confirmation.
On the last car we p/x'd the tax refund came quickly but after 4 wks still hadn't had the notification so contacted them by email and it arrived a couple of days later, although dated about 2 weeks previously.

Had a bit of barney with the salesman as he wanted to send it off and said we could just forget all about our old car. He thought I was being ridiculous when I pointed to the note about looking out for the acknowledgement.

monthefish

Original Poster:

20,439 posts

230 months

Thursday 16th July 2015
quotequote all
B'stard Child said:
monthefish said:
Has anyone had a court summons (and offer to pay out of court extortion settlement) for the above?

Situation as follows (as simple and uncomplicated as it sounds):
- cheap car ( <£1k ) sold via ebay.
- Deposit paid by buyer immediately via paypal.
- Buyer collects car a week or so later, paying cash for the balance.
- V5 filled in at this time, main bit sent to DVLA, new keeper takes supplement (and the car).


A few months later, court summons received for failure to notify the DVLA.
Was it taxed? Lack of refund cheque would have set alarm bells ringing for me...
Thanks, good thinking but the sale was prior to the change in legislation. (which is why I'm surprised to be getting involved so many months later)

B'stard Child said:
Doesn't matter anyway - if you posted the V5 off to DVLA (even normal post) you've complied with the legislation
That's what I thought, but worth fighting it do you think?

I've already sent a letter of explanation, including copies of all of the docs (ebay sale details, paypal receipt etc), but they've replied basically ignoring all of it and they still want me to pay up.
I'm 50:50 - when I received their latest reply, I was pretty peeved off and thought 'bring it on, do your worst, see yoo in court' but on the other hand, £35 isn't a great deal of money and, although the thought of paying up when I've done nothing wrong stings a bit, life is short and I'm already theoretically financially worse off by taking the time to reply in the first place!


B'stard Child said:
Do you still have the buyers details? If so ask if he has a Reg doc yet? I would think that he's probably had to apply for one using the green slip and it's for a while ago so DVLA think they've caught a live one wink
Yes, still have the chaps name address (it's on the paypal receipt for example). I've e-mailed him.


John145

2,447 posts

155 months

Thursday 16th July 2015
quotequote all
I had this crap a year ago, scrapped a car, received a letter saying thanks for telling us, then 3 months later a request for further payment. I replied stating I sent the V5 as requested, that they sent a receipt and I considered that the end of the matter. Thankfully they backed down.

They're bloody moronic!

monthefish

Original Poster:

20,439 posts

230 months

Thursday 16th July 2015
quotequote all
Red Devil said:
monthefish said:
Has anyone had a court summons (and offer to pay out of court extortion settlement) for the above?

Situation as follows (as simple and uncomplicated as it sounds):
- cheap car ( <£1k ) sold via ebay.
- Deposit paid by buyer immediately via paypal.
- Buyer collects car a week or so later, paying cash for the balance.
- V5 filled in at this time, main bit sent to DVLA, new keeper takes supplement (and the car).


A few months later, court summons received for failure to notify the DVLA.
Are you sure it is a summons not a Requisition? - http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/showthread.php...
Also there are intermediate steps before it gets to that stage. It would seem you have ignored them. Why?
Great link, many thanks. (Nice to know I'm not alone if nothing else).

Apologies if I've not described the documents correctly - the gist of it was basically 'pay up now or we're taking you to court' there was no mention of a court date or anything like that, so I'm assuming these are the intermediate steps happening now (i've not ignored anything)
Unfortunately I don't still have the original letter it as I sent it back to them with my reply (mentioned in my post above), but if I'm taking them on, I'll get another copy.


B'stard Child

28,320 posts

245 months

Thursday 16th July 2015
quotequote all
monthefish said:
B'stard Child said:
monthefish said:
Has anyone had a court summons (and offer to pay out of court extortion settlement) for the above?

Situation as follows (as simple and uncomplicated as it sounds):
- cheap car ( <£1k ) sold via ebay.
- Deposit paid by buyer immediately via paypal.
- Buyer collects car a week or so later, paying cash for the balance.
- V5 filled in at this time, main bit sent to DVLA, new keeper takes supplement (and the car).

A few months later, court summons received for failure to notify the DVLA.
Was it taxed? Lack of refund cheque would have set alarm bells ringing for me...
Thanks, good thinking but the sale was prior to the change in legislation. (which is why I'm surprised to be getting involved so many months later)
Well they lost a significant revenue stream with the abolition of 12 mth SORN (for VED and or Insurance) so with all those staff previously employed to hunt down people who forgot to renew the SORN they couldn't lay them off - it would have been a political disaster - or am I being cynical

monthefish said:
B'stard Child said:
Doesn't matter anyway - if you posted the V5 off to DVLA (even normal post) you've complied with the legislation
That's what I thought, but worth fighting it do you think?
I bloody would

monthefish said:
I've already sent a letter of explanation, including copies of all of the docs (ebay sale details, paypal receipt etc), but they've replied basically ignoring all of it and they still want me to pay up.
I'm 50:50 - when I received their latest reply, I was pretty peeved off and thought 'bring it on, do your worst, see yoo in court' but on the other hand, £35 isn't a great deal of money and, although the thought of paying up when I've done nothing wrong stings a bit, life is short and I'm already theoretically financially worse off by taking the time to reply in the first place!
They work on the principle that most people will roll over and pay up to save any "hassle" - I refuse to do that unless they have me bang to rights and I think I'm 4 wins and 1 defeat - Bit of a "pet hate" the DVLA because you can't reason with them and you write a letter to one "department" and you get a reply from another so you never get to deal with the same person.

The one thing I would advise is that writing long letters doesn't work it just encourages them to keep writing back - you need to be really really to the point.

Dear DVLA

Ref "their reference"

This is the last communication I will be making

I fully complied with my obligations under law and posted the correctly completed V5 to DVLA on X Date and I am not liable for any fine.

Should you wish to have further discussion regarding this then it will be in a courtroom.

Me

monthefish said:
B'stard Child said:
Do you still have the buyers details? If so ask if he has a Reg doc yet? I would think that he's probably had to apply for one using the green slip and it's for a while ago so DVLA think they've caught a live one wink
Yes, still have the chaps name address (it's on the paypal receipt for example). I've e-mailed him.
Would be interested to see how you get on - my suspicion is that he has applied for a V5 having not got one automatically and paid the £25 and asked for ownership to start from the date of purchase.

Would you mind keeping the thread up to date?

monthefish

Original Poster:

20,439 posts

230 months

Friday 17th July 2015
quotequote all
B'stard Child said:
Well they lost a significant revenue stream with the abolition of 12 mth SORN (for VED and or Insurance) so with all those staff previously employed to hunt down people who forgot to renew the SORN they couldn't lay them off - it would have been a political disaster - or am I being cynical
Perhaps. hehe but you're probably giving them more credit than they're due. I think they are simply incompetent.

Plus, they're making up the additional revenue by gaining an extra months worth of VED per car in any year that car is sold (13 instead of 12)

B'stard Child said:
monthefish said:
B'stard Child said:
Doesn't matter anyway - if you posted the V5 off to DVLA (even normal post) you've complied with the legislation
That's what I thought, but worth fighting it do you think?
I bloody would
Yes, I'm minded to also but in doing so I may win the battle, but have already lost the war (by wasting precious time on it)

B'stard Child said:
Dear DVLA

The one thing I would advise is that writing long letters doesn't work it just encourages them to keep writing back - you need to be really really to the point.


Ref "their reference"

This is the last communication I will be making

I fully complied with my obligations under law and posted the correctly completed V5 to DVLA on X Date and I am not liable for any fine.

Should you wish to have further discussion regarding this then it will be in a courtroom.

Me
Like it.




Edited by monthefish on Friday 17th July 10:36

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 17th July 2015
quotequote all
I had something similar from the DVLA a year ago regarding a car I sold.

Their letters got increasingly threatening (talk of court etc) but thanks to advice from the PH forums I held my ground. I repeatedly refuted their claims in simple terms (as shown above) and I supplied all the documentation to support my claim of innocence. Someone somewhere in Swansea must have realised they were going to make themselves look ridiculous if it ever went to court and a few months down the line a letter arrived saying they'd dropped the case.

It's the principal more than anything else; don't roll over and let them get away with it.

Cliftonite

8,406 posts

137 months

Tuesday 21st July 2015
quotequote all
Seems that ownership changes can now be done on-line via DVLA website:





https://dvladigital.blog.gov.uk/2015/07/21/more-ve...


havoc

29,918 posts

234 months

Tuesday 21st July 2015
quotequote all
Only works (apparently) between 8am and 6pm Mon-Sat though - whoever heard of a website only working during 'normal hours'?!?

Just tried to use it to find out the above, as Royal Mail have lost (or DVLA haven't acknowledged receipt) of the V5 I sent off last Monday using Signed-For. I could have saved myself the time and cost of posting the V5 off...

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Tuesday 21st July 2015
quotequote all
havoc said:
Only works (apparently) between 8am and 6pm Mon-Sat though
Seems to work just fine from here outside those hours...
https://www.gov.uk/sold-bought-vehicle