Discrimination during maternity leave
Discussion
Breadvan72 said:
RobinOakapple said:
...
I should think now that the only people filling their offices etc with dolly birds now are those people who are not personally affected by the financial implications of the almost inevitable pregnancies.
"Dolly birds", really? Have you been to a place of employment recently? There are a lot of women at many of them. Maybe you shouldn't go and see. The sight of emancipated women being economically active might upset you. I should think now that the only people filling their offices etc with dolly birds now are those people who are not personally affected by the financial implications of the almost inevitable pregnancies.
If I was looking to employ somebody I would be scrupulously fair and practice gender equality, but would be aware of the effort that would be required.
RobinOakapple said:
Although self employed, I am in places of employment a lot, and it's my impression that there are not so many young women to be seen as once were. If there were it wouldn't upset me because if and when they get pregnant it won't affect me.
If I was looking to employ somebody I would be scrupulously fair and practice gender equality, but would be aware of the effort that would be required.
Jesus Christ, he's serious.If I was looking to employ somebody I would be scrupulously fair and practice gender equality, but would be aware of the effort that would be required.
This thread would be funny if it wasn't so, so sad.
I particularly love how a woman's decision to be on maternity leave is a lifestyle choice that she should just deal with, but apparently thesperm donor partner does his thing and gets on with his life with no impact on his career opportunities, and that's how it should be? Mental!
Wonder if those opinions would change if it was the men giving birth?
I particularly love how a woman's decision to be on maternity leave is a lifestyle choice that she should just deal with, but apparently the
Wonder if those opinions would change if it was the men giving birth?
MrsMiggins said:
This thread would be funny if it wasn't so, so sad.
I particularly love how a woman's decision to be on maternity leave is a lifestyle choice that she should just deal with, but apparently thesperm donor partner does his thing and gets on with his life with no impact on his career opportunities, and that's how it should be? Mental!
Wonder if those opinions would change if it was the men giving birth?
I can't speak for anyone else here, but whenever I have discussed pregnancy I have always had in mind both partners. I take it that it is a lifestyle choice that BOTH have made.I particularly love how a woman's decision to be on maternity leave is a lifestyle choice that she should just deal with, but apparently the
Wonder if those opinions would change if it was the men giving birth?
MrsMiggins said:
This thread would be funny if it wasn't so, so sad.
I particularly love how a woman's decision to be on maternity leave is a lifestyle choice that she should just deal with, but apparently thesperm donor partner does his thing and gets on with his life with no impact on his career opportunities, and that's how it should be? Mental!
Wonder if those opinions would change if it was the men giving birth?
It doesn't impact the fathers career so much because he doesn't take a year, or possibly several, out of the workplace. If a man did take several years out for whatever reason it would likely impact his career too.I particularly love how a woman's decision to be on maternity leave is a lifestyle choice that she should just deal with, but apparently the
Wonder if those opinions would change if it was the men giving birth?
That's a fact of life. Deal with it.
PurpleMoonlight said:
It doesn't impact the fathers career so much because he doesn't take a year, or possibly several, out of the workplace. If a man did take several years out for whatever reason it would likely impacted his career too.
That's a fact of life. Deal with it.
Really it's you who isn't dealing the with facts of life and the facts of employing people.That's a fact of life. Deal with it.
PurpleMoonlight said:
It doesn't impact the fathers career so much because he doesn't take a year, or possibly several, out of the workplace. If a man did take several years out for whatever reason it would likely impact his career too.
That's a fact of life. Deal with it.
Thanks for pointing out the glaringly obvious. That's a fact of life. Deal with it.
Actus Reus said:
On a serious note congrats - it is really great fun. And in the end that is exactly how we will be working now - but be honest, is your wife quitting now or claiming any MP first? Fair play if you turn your backs on a legal entitlement as a point of principle, but babies are awfully expensive. I was very glad of the safety net MP provided - all agreed by her employer as part of her contract. I also understand that it's expensive for a small business - difficult to legislate an exemption though and not judged to be in the common good I imagine. SMP for a woman on about £25k is only about £7k over 12 months though so it's not THAT onerous I'd suggest.
Many thanks!She works 3 day a week for a company where she is a director, but they are a 2 person operation and an old friend of the boss is going to be stepping in, so yes provisions are being made and she may act as a consultant in future but we aren't asking for or taking any MP. Her other work is for her own company so no MP there either!
Yes I've been told that I may as well christen the future Mini-Me#1 as Cost-Centre#1 but luckily we have lots of amazing family on both sides who have a range of Mini-them's of varying vintages so we have a lot of the essential kit waiting for us already.
PurpleMoonlight said:
It doesn't impact the fathers career so much because he doesn't take a year, or possibly several, out of the workplace. If a man did take several years out for whatever reason it would likely impact his career too.
That's a fact of life. Deal with it.
Funnily enough the law protects him too if he wanted to.That's a fact of life. Deal with it.
Just because its fairly difficult for the bloke to actually grow the baby in his beer belly doesn't mean the bloke can't take the time off afterwards
https://www.gov.uk/shared-parental-leave-and-pay
Why do we keep going on as if this is a WOMAN issue. Its a having a baby issue.
GroundEffect said:
How can it be unfair if those that are done over.....don't have kids? Those who don't have kids don't need the time off to get torn open by a crying s
tting machine that keeps you up at 2, 3 , 4 and 5am. That's your fairness right there!
Fact remains that as a economy, society and species we need women to have children. By putting up barriers, such as having to quit work to have one, with huge uncertainty that they can get another to support the new family just means you'll get less kids. We can't afford that in our already ageing population. Or should only dole scroungers have the kids? I'm sure PH wants that.
Suck it up women haters and business-comes-first nutters, out #1 purpose on this planet is to reproduce and it needs to be given special attention. And the law rightly allows it. There is no parallel.
Some good points. I will revoke my first sentence! I stand by the rest though as have seen many people take the piss somewhat on the whole MP thing, but if the systems are there, there will always be those trying to milk it.tting machine that keeps you up at 2, 3 , 4 and 5am. That's your fairness right there! Fact remains that as a economy, society and species we need women to have children. By putting up barriers, such as having to quit work to have one, with huge uncertainty that they can get another to support the new family just means you'll get less kids. We can't afford that in our already ageing population. Or should only dole scroungers have the kids? I'm sure PH wants that.
Suck it up women haters and business-comes-first nutters, out #1 purpose on this planet is to reproduce and it needs to be given special attention. And the law rightly allows it. There is no parallel.
JonV8V said:
Funnily enough the law protects him too if he wanted to.
Just because its fairly difficult for the bloke to actually grow the baby in his beer belly doesn't mean the bloke can't take the time off afterwards
https://www.gov.uk/shared-parental-leave-and-pay
Why do we keep going on as if this is a WOMAN issue. Its a having a baby issue.
Yes, that's very true.Just because its fairly difficult for the bloke to actually grow the baby in his beer belly doesn't mean the bloke can't take the time off afterwards
https://www.gov.uk/shared-parental-leave-and-pay
Why do we keep going on as if this is a WOMAN issue. Its a having a baby issue.
Guess I had better sack the men in relationships now just in case.
No wait, they could be single and adopt.
Stuffed whichever way.
Bugger ....
If my child had been born this year, rather than 2 years ago, I would definitely be taking some shared parental leave. Probably 4-5 months or so.
That's what I like about the new arrangements - from now on men are (theoretically at least) just as likely to take a chunk of time off. So the women-haters have got one less thing to ding them for...
That's what I like about the new arrangements - from now on men are (theoretically at least) just as likely to take a chunk of time off. So the women-haters have got one less thing to ding them for...
divetheworld said:
Breadvan72 said:
(3) If an employee really had no intention of returning in any circumstances, she would not have suffered any loss, and so could not claim any. Not this case, AIUI.
Its potential, not actual that the law covers though, right?JonV8V said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
It doesn't impact the fathers career so much because he doesn't take a year, or possibly several, out of the workplace. If a man did take several years out for whatever reason it would likely impact his career too.
That's a fact of life. Deal with it.
Funnily enough the law protects him too if he wanted to.That's a fact of life. Deal with it.
Just because its fairly difficult for the bloke to actually grow the baby in his beer belly doesn't mean the bloke can't take the time off afterwards
https://www.gov.uk/shared-parental-leave-and-pay
Why do we keep going on as if this is a WOMAN issue. Its a having a baby issue.
JonV8V said:
Funnily enough the law protects him too if he wanted to.
Just because its fairly difficult for the bloke to actually grow the baby in his beer belly doesn't mean the bloke can't take the time off afterwards
https://www.gov.uk/shared-parental-leave-and-pay
Why do we keep going on as if this is a WOMAN issue. Its a having a baby issue.
I remember looking at paternity pay (having worked solid for almost 20 years) . I think it was £100 a week and thought how the f do i Pay the mortgage based on that? We reverted to what some people prefer as a more middle ages approach to those that dare selfishly procreate (like their parents). So much better.Just because its fairly difficult for the bloke to actually grow the baby in his beer belly doesn't mean the bloke can't take the time off afterwards
https://www.gov.uk/shared-parental-leave-and-pay
Why do we keep going on as if this is a WOMAN issue. Its a having a baby issue.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Brave Fart said:
You are absolutely right OP. As for Mr Purple Moonlight, would you repeat your posts if you were face to face with the OP? If so, you'd be acting even more rudely than you already have. How about you apologise to the OP and wish him and his wife well in the future?
Since when did it become rude to have a difference of opinion?RobinOakapple said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I'm not looking for an argument, I'm taking part in a discussion and I am asking those who feel that pregnant women have intrinsic rights defend their position. There's something very lopsided in a society that gives such special privileges to people to people who have made a lifestyle choice.
Do you feel the same rights should apply to any person who stops working for several months in order to pursue an activity that is important to them?
The law regarding the rights of a pregnant woman is what it is and has been decided by the ECJ - http://www.bailii.org/eu/cases/EUECJ/1994/C3293.ht...
A decision which the HoL has had to follow - http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKHL/1995/13.html
Those who find it morally repugnant are going to have to persuade the ECJ to resile from that decision. Good luck with that. Their only other hope is that the UK goes ahead and withdraws entirely from the EU. Once they have overcome that hurdle they will then face another: finding a political party prepared to adopt their preferred solution and with a sufficient working majority in Westminster to ensure that the relevant national legislation is amended accordingly. I can't see either result happening.
The situation has been resolved in favour of the OP. So we might well think of moving on and finding something else to get all hot and bothered about.
Red Devil said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
Brave Fart said:
You are absolutely right OP. As for Mr Purple Moonlight, would you repeat your posts if you were face to face with the OP? If so, you'd be acting even more rudely than you already have. How about you apologise to the OP and wish him and his wife well in the future?
Since when did it become rude to have a difference of opinion?RobinOakapple said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I'm not looking for an argument, I'm taking part in a discussion and I am asking those who feel that pregnant women have intrinsic rights defend their position. There's something very lopsided in a society that gives such special privileges to people to people who have made a lifestyle choice.
Do you feel the same rights should apply to any person who stops working for several months in order to pursue an activity that is important to them?
The law regarding the rights of a pregnant woman is what it is and has been decided by the ECJ - http://www.bailii.org/eu/cases/EUECJ/1994/C3293.ht...
A decision which the HoL has had to follow - http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKHL/1995/13.html
Those who find it morally repugnant are going to have to persuade the ECJ to resile from that decision. Good luck with that. Their only other hope is that the UK goes ahead and withdraws entirely from the EU. Once they have overcome that hurdle they will then face another: finding a political party prepared to adopt their preferred solution and with a sufficient working majority in Westminster to ensure that the relevant national legislation is amended accordingly. I can't see either result happening.
The situation has been resolved in favour of the OP. So we might well think of moving on and finding something else to get all hot and bothered about.
Red Devil said:
It doesn't matter what any of us on PH think.
The law regarding the rights of a pregnant woman is what it is and has been decided by the ECJ...
I'm amazed that you would think it worthwhile posting something like that in what is after all a discussion forum.The law regarding the rights of a pregnant woman is what it is and has been decided by the ECJ...
If we were not to discuss things which were covered by existing laws them (speeding for instance) then there would be a great deal less discussion here than there is.
Breadvan72 said:
divetheworld said:
Breadvan72 said:
(3) If an employee really had no intention of returning in any circumstances, she would not have suffered any loss, and so could not claim any. Not this case, AIUI.
Its potential, not actual that the law covers though, right?Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff