Rejecting a new 2015 BMW M5 CP - advice please

Rejecting a new 2015 BMW M5 CP - advice please

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Discussion

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 2nd August 2015
quotequote all
LoonR1 said:
Sheepshanks said:
LoonR1 said:
It's had over £30k spent on it
Can you post up copies of the invoices? rolleyes
Oh yes, very good. There are no invoices as its warranty work. It's had a new engine, new exhaust, new battery, tracker, O2 sensors, and a truckload of labour hours in the past year. All of which is warranty.

It's gone in again yesterday with yet another engine management warning light.
Bloody hell. Did you buy it new? That's a crazy amount of stuff on what is generally regarded as a reliable and well respected marque. Well, it is if you read PH a lot. Which I do.

daemon

35,724 posts

196 months

Sunday 2nd August 2015
quotequote all
Redgate said:
daemon said:
As they didnt have another they refunded me the (agreed) value of a car with a FBMWSH at that time, and thry took the car back.

I think that was entirely reasonable under repair, refund or replace.

No com-pen-say-shun.
How is that not (fair) compensation ?
You do understand what compensation is dont you?

They bought the car back for a fair agreed price - I didnt ask for an extra £5,000 for my hurt feelings or whatever else people claim for these days

Redgate

325 posts

146 months

Sunday 2nd August 2015
quotequote all
daemon said:
You do understand what compensation is dont you?

They bought the car back for a fair agreed price - I didnt ask for an extra £5,000 for my hurt feelings or whatever else people claim for these days
See, that is where our understanding of 'compensation' do differ a fair bit.

You bought a second-hand car with God knows how many previous owners before. As far as we know there was absolutely NOTHING mechanically wrong with the car itself until you discover it did not really have FBMWSH.

OP is buying a brand new premium car that, to say the least, is not living up to expectations because it is has a well-documented fault.

Yet, it is OK for you to get a gift from your dealer when it is not for someone who, in the long run, will be forking out over £70K.

Sorry, I cannot understand your logic there.

theboss

6,878 posts

218 months

Sunday 2nd August 2015
quotequote all
daemon said:
Redgate said:
daemon said:
As they didnt have another they refunded me the (agreed) value of a car with a FBMWSH at that time, and thry took the car back.

I think that was entirely reasonable under repair, refund or replace.

No com-pen-say-shun.
How is that not (fair) compensation ?
You do understand what compensation is dont you?

They bought the car back for a fair agreed price - I didnt ask for an extra £5,000 for my hurt feelings or whatever else people claim for these days
There's a difference between an individual engaging in business with a company, and obtaining a partial refund in respect of losses, perceived or evidenced, or even "hurt feelings"... And the sort of compensation entitlement / blame culture you describe by which people seek to bring claims against anyone for anything wherevere possible. I'm allegedly in line for some "good will" from VWUK because they delivered my Golf R about 3 months late and I had the audacity to shout at them publically on Twitter when I could find no other way to get a response from them. Does this make me some sort of compo parasite too? (I didn't ask for anything, I just wanted to give a kick up the arse). Similarly John Lewis offered me a free coffee recently for the inconvenience "suffered" when they failed to de-tag some clothes bought. I accepted this and thought it was a nice offer. More compensation culture or just companies seeking to project and maintain a positive perception amongst customers whose loyalty they seek to retain?

daemon

35,724 posts

196 months

Sunday 2nd August 2015
quotequote all
Redgate said:
See, that is where our understanding of 'compensation' do differ a fair bit.

You bought a second-hand car with God knows how many previous owners before. As far as we know there was absolutely NOTHING mechanically wrong with the car itself until you discover it did not really have FBMWSH.
It was a one owner premium car, bought under the BMW Approved Used scheme at 3 years old.


Redgate said:
OP is buying a brand new premium car that, to say the least, is not living up to expectations because it is has a well-documented fault.

Yet, it is OK for you to get a gift from your dealer when it is not for someone who, in the long run, will be forking out over £70K.

Sorry, I cannot understand your logic there.
I didnt get a gift from the dealer - they bought the car back! The dealer didnt say "heres £2,000 to compensate you for your hassle. They bought the car back at the market value of a car with a FBMWSH.

As i have said already with the O/P situation, if they cant source the parts within a reasonable timeframe I would be looking at options - either a buy back, or a replacement, given they had shown by that stage they could repair it.

daemon

35,724 posts

196 months

Sunday 2nd August 2015
quotequote all
theboss said:
There's a difference between an individual engaging in business with a company, and obtaining a partial refund in respect of losses, perceived or evidenced, or even "hurt feelings"... And the sort of compensation entitlement / blame culture you describe by which people seek to bring claims against anyone for anything wherevere possible. I'm allegedly in line for some "good will" from VWUK because they delivered my Golf R about 3 months late and I had the audacity to shout at them publically on Twitter when I could find no other way to get a response from them. Does this make me some sort of compo parasite too? (I didn't ask for anything, I just wanted to give a kick up the arse). Similarly John Lewis offered me a free coffee recently for the inconvenience "suffered" when they failed to de-tag some clothes bought. I accepted this and thought it was a nice offer. More compensation culture or just companies seeking to project and maintain a positive perception amongst customers whose loyalty they seek to retain?
In the O/Ps very first post, they said they had received "compensation" from BMW, and that had been "full and final", however the O/P now felt that that "compensation" was inadequate and that they wanted more.

Does that map to your experience of a goodwill gesture, or does it sound like compensation?

Also, given the O/P has come back and is now happy to accept a different loan car while he waits, we've moved on from discussing the O/Ps situation specifically, to what people "think" someone should be entitled to in circumstances such as the O/P has experienced and some seem to believe entitles them to reject the car and / or seek compensation - neither of which i personally think is correct, nor do the legal eagles who have posted.


allergictocheese

1,290 posts

112 months

Sunday 2nd August 2015
quotequote all
If you approach things sensibly (non shouty), dealers and manufacturers can be reasonable.

I remember a new car been delivered 2 weeks later than agreed. The dealer paid for me to have a hire car for the entire 2 weeks. On another occasion the manufacturer had no brake pads in stock across the country when I needed them, so they provided a courtesy car FOC until the parts arrived.

Both times the result was achieved by keeping away from being hysterical or greedy.

Redgate

325 posts

146 months

Sunday 2nd August 2015
quotequote all
allergictocheese said:
If you approach things sensibly (non shouty), dealers and manufacturers can be reasonable.

Both times the result was achieved by keeping away from being hysterical or greedy.
And that is exactly my point. Unlike some posters here might think, I am not talking 'free kidney for a transplant' nor 'unlimited supply of Carling for the rest of my life'.

My point is that when a dealer/manufacturer is selling their premium products and the said products are flawed/do not live up to expectations because of proven failures, they should be ready and willing to go the extra mile to compensate.

That is just my point of view and whether or not I am willing to be more compromising in a similar situation in real life conditions will have zero impact on some posters here, unless they are car dealers wink

Edited by Redgate on Sunday 2nd August 17:42

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 2nd August 2015
quotequote all
The more I hear about BMW, the less "premium" they sound.

theboss

6,878 posts

218 months

Sunday 2nd August 2015
quotequote all
daemon said:
In the O/Ps very first post, they said they had received "compensation" from BMW, and that had been "full and final", however the O/P now felt that that "compensation" was inadequate and that they wanted more.

Does that map to your experience of a goodwill gesture, or does it sound like compensation?

Also, given the O/P has come back and is now happy to accept a different loan car while he waits, we've moved on from discussing the O/Ps situation specifically, to what people "think" someone should be entitled to in circumstances such as the O/P has experienced and some seem to believe entitles them to reject the car and / or seek compensation - neither of which i personally think is correct, nor do the legal eagles who have posted.
I think the OP realised pretty quickly after posting that rejection (at this stage) was completely OTT and unreasonable. This point hasn't been argued further as far as I can recall.

On compensation, I don't think anyone is banging on about entitlement, legal or otherwise. The OP asked BMW UK for some sort of refund which they paid. If you "seek compensation" and the other party gladly stumps up - does that make it an unreasonable request? Of course of BMW refused, the OP started banging the "I know my rights" drum and came here looking for legal advice, the legal eagles would rightly laugh him down.... But that has not happened. It's as if a few here are determined to be outraged by what they perceive to be a perfect example of "compensation culture" when there is simply no relevance.

LoonR1

26,988 posts

176 months

Sunday 2nd August 2015
quotequote all
OpulentBob said:
LoonR1 said:
Sheepshanks said:
LoonR1 said:
It's had over £30k spent on it
Can you post up copies of the invoices? rolleyes
Oh yes, very good. There are no invoices as its warranty work. It's had a new engine, new exhaust, new battery, tracker, O2 sensors, and a truckload of labour hours in the past year. All of which is warranty.

It's gone in again yesterday with yet another engine management warning light.
Bloody hell. Did you buy it new? That's a crazy amount of stuff on what is generally regarded as a reliable and well respected marque. Well, it is if you read PH a lot. Which I do.
Yes I did. BMW and the dealer have been nothing short of ignorant with the whole thing. The best I've had is the dealer offer me a "fair trade in value due to all the issues I've had". What do they do normally then? Offer an unfair trade in value!


All that jazz

7,632 posts

145 months

Sunday 2nd August 2015
quotequote all
Karma is alive and well. cloud9

LoonR1

26,988 posts

176 months

Sunday 2nd August 2015
quotequote all
All that jazz said:
Karma is alive and well. cloud9
That's what keeps you alive
The thought of undeserved death
That's why cynics deep-sea dive
Just to watch someone healthy lose breath
That's what really makes you tick
When the fearless are stopped in their tracks
Optimism looks up counts the stars
Pessimism looks down and counts cracks

With thanks to Paul Heaton

daemon

35,724 posts

196 months

Sunday 2nd August 2015
quotequote all
LoonR1 said:
All that jazz said:
Karma is alive and well. cloud9
That's what keeps you alive
The thought of undeserved death
That's why cynics deep-sea dive
Just to watch someone healthy lose breath
That's what really makes you tick
When the fearless are stopped in their tracks
Optimism looks up counts the stars
Pessimism looks down and counts cracks

With thanks to Paul Heaton
Eloquent, but personally i'd have just went for a simple "fk off" hehe

ging84

8,828 posts

145 months

Sunday 2nd August 2015
quotequote all
I would not be at all surprised if tucked somewhere into all the paper work it takes to buy an 80 grand car is some sort of disclaimer you need to sign outlining that due to the nature of the car you can expect higher than usual amounts of routine and non routine maintenance, and due to the rarity of the car things may take longer than usual and you can't expect a like for like replacement while it's off the road.

funkyrobot

18,789 posts

227 months

Sunday 2nd August 2015
quotequote all
This thread has caused me mental anguish.

I'm going to write to BMW and ask for compensation.

James P

2,950 posts

236 months

Sunday 2nd August 2015
quotequote all
LoonR1 said:
OpulentBob said:
LoonR1 said:
Sheepshanks said:
LoonR1 said:
It's had over £30k spent on it
Can you post up copies of the invoices? rolleyes
Oh yes, very good. There are no invoices as its warranty work. It's had a new engine, new exhaust, new battery, tracker, O2 sensors, and a truckload of labour hours in the past year. All of which is warranty.

It's gone in again yesterday with yet another engine management warning light.
Bloody hell. Did you buy it new? That's a crazy amount of stuff on what is generally regarded as a reliable and well respected marque. Well, it is if you read PH a lot. Which I do.
Yes I did. BMW and the dealer have been nothing short of ignorant with the whole thing. The best I've had is the dealer offer me a "fair trade in value due to all the issues I've had". What do they do normally then? Offer an unfair trade in value!
IME a BMW dealer will offer the lowest value they can (ie max profit to re-sell) while telling you what a favour they are doing for you.

As I'd had so many warranty issues with the current car, I was quoted a special rate for contract hire that was (a coincidence I'm sure) exactly the same as quoted another BMW dealership by email. They really don't help themselves.

maurauth

749 posts

169 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
LoonR1 said:
It's st. There's a new warning light every month. It's had over £30k spent on it on warranty and it's still under extended warranty. The solicitor seems happy with their SOGA and implied whatever crap and I don't really care anymore. It's at the dealers and I've no intention of ever picking it up again. I'll go and buy a new car next week when I get back from another weekend of track days and generally dicking about on my bike.

Annoying as I've just committed to another new car for my villa in Cyprus, but that's OK because I've turned the thread into a "look at me I've got a villa" thread now.
I had a boggo E92 that was the same. Whenever I went up a hill or slip road I'd be praying not to go into limp mode. I think I replaced coils and injectors about 6 times in the 8 months I had the car and within 2-3 weeks it would break again.

Luckily some of those car supermarkets aren't too careful with their P/Xs.

jbsportstech

5,069 posts

178 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
Think you need to give them a chance.

They replaced the seal thats didnt work now they are swapping the diff not much else they can do.

I would just point out you are unhappy and as for a bmw 5 series or similar as a loan car as a mini when your paying for £60k motor is not good.

TankRizzo

7,247 posts

192 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
I don't get the vitriol towards OP. Neither do I get all the self-congratulating, mostly irrelevant, stories of what I, my dad, my dog did in similar circumstances. Just because you do ( or pretend to do ) things certain way, it doesn't it make it the only valid way. There were some useful posts explaining that rejection on grounds mentioned is not an option. Op, from what I've read, took that info, said thanks and that was that.

Typing compensation in that weird way doesn't make you clever, it makes you look needy for approval from equally feeble-minded tits.



Edited by jjlynn27 on Saturday 1st August 12:48
You should congratulate yourself. This is the first vaguely car-related thread you've posted on in 5 months and 250+ posts of sneering since you joined PH.