Rejecting a new 2015 BMW M5 CP - advice please
Discussion
Redgate said:
Since the Dealer and BMW are working hard to resolve this issue I would not try to reject the car BUT I would definitely expect some sort of compensation for the inconvenience.
For what exactly? The dealer are replacing a part they don't have to and at their expense, whilst providing a courtesy car and, by all accounts, trying to get the issue resolved. What is it with people these days demanding compensation? Who do you think then pays for all these compensation payouts?Edited by crashley on Friday 31st July 11:40
crashley said:
Redgate said:
Since the Dealer and BMW are working hard to resolve this issue I would not try to reject the car BUT I would definitely expect some sort of compensation for the inconvenience.
For what exactly? The dealer are replacing a part they don't have to and at their expense, whilst providing a courtesy car and, by all accounts, trying to get the issue resolved. What is it with people these days demanding compensation? Who do you think then pays for all these compensation payouts?Edited by crashley on Friday 31st July 11:40
The OP bought an M5 on a PCP provided by BMW themselves and has then been denied use of the car through a manufacturing fault for the best part of the 5-9 weeks since taking delivery... If I were in his shoes I'd be asking BMW nicely if they would offer me an alternative M5 to use or return some of outlay. Nothing wrong with this at all and not in any way indicative of "compensation culture gone mad".
Get off your high f
king horse FFSSheepshanks said:
LoonR1 said:
It's had over £30k spent on it
Can you post up copies of the invoices? 
It's gone in again yesterday with yet another engine management warning light.
theboss said:
Out of interest who do you think pays for them? (In this example)
The OP bought an M5 on a PCP provided by BMW themselves and has then been denied use of the car through a manufacturing fault for the best part of the 5-9 weeks since taking delivery... If I were in his shoes I'd be asking BMW nicely if they would offer me an alternative M5 to use or return some of outlay. Nothing wrong with this at all and not in any way indicative of "compensation culture gone mad".
Beat me to it.The OP bought an M5 on a PCP provided by BMW themselves and has then been denied use of the car through a manufacturing fault for the best part of the 5-9 weeks since taking delivery... If I were in his shoes I'd be asking BMW nicely if they would offer me an alternative M5 to use or return some of outlay. Nothing wrong with this at all and not in any way indicative of "compensation culture gone mad".
But to summarize why I would seek to get 'some' form of compensation:
- A brand new M5 represents a hefty sum,
- A brand new car should, in my view, rarely suffer from that kind of failure (but s
t happens),- A brand new car as technologically advanced as an M5 should have a trouble-free early life,
- The car has been off the road for several weeks whilst OP is still paying for an item he cannot enjoy.
And in fact, if BMW cares about its corporate image, they should not wait for the OP to ask for compensation, they should offer it presto.
After all, the M division products are supposed to represent the technical know-how of the brand.
I'm of the opposite view. Life is not perfect. We've had a good description of taking products to market which echoes what we all know. Stuff goes wrong. In this case the OP is getting his car fixed. No push back from the dealer. They give him a car to use.
Compensation is just not needed. I hate the compensation, I've been wronged culture. We all seem to say that on here, yet.....
Bert
Compensation is just not needed. I hate the compensation, I've been wronged culture. We all seem to say that on here, yet.....
Bert
LoonR1 said:
Oh yes, very good. There are no invoices as its warranty work. It's had a new engine, new exhaust, new battery, tracker, O2 sensors, and a truckload of labour hours in the past year. All of which is warranty.
It's gone in again yesterday with yet another engine management warning light.
£30k in three years is astonishing. It's gone in again yesterday with yet another engine management warning light.
This is a real case where the SOGA should apply. Clearly, when the warranty runs out, it's uneconomical to own the car.
Can I ask what the solicitor advised regarding a potential claim?
Soov535 said:
So now four qualified lawyers (two solicitors and two barristers) have told our hero to stop being silly, but the thread is still running.
Shall we make it five?I think part of the problem is that people know about "the right to reject" but don't necessarily realise that it's actually quite limited in its application and what you need to show.
I recently had a client who wanted to reject an 18 month old Range Rover Sport which had been in and out for a variety of warranty work, with matters coming to a head after all four wheels were replaced but the dealer's spanner monkey failed to do the wheel nuts up properly and refit the locking nut.
His wife had "lost all confidence" in the car as a result and refused to drive it. I sympathise entirely with his position, and I'd probably feel similar if it had been my wife's car where the wheel might have come off mid-journey, but I had to explain to him that it didn't give him a right to reject the car.
Being aware of consumer rights is no bad thing - but it does sometimes give rise to misconceptions and give people inflated ideas of what they're entitled to.
Edited by Lurking Lawyer on Friday 31st July 13:23
BertBert said:
And out of interest, what do the terms and conditions say regarding the sale of the new car? Do they say BMW'll pay compo in this circumstance?
Bert
I may be entirely wrong and I'd gratefully stand corrected by one of our resident lawyers, but the fact that the OP PCP'd the car with the manufacturer's own finance division must give him some extra leg to stand on by virtue of regulation and consumer rights derived from the sale of goods by credit.Bert
As I said above, if I were forking out PCP payments to a manucturer's finance arm, for a car which sat in their compound for a significant period of time awaiting repair of a manufacturing defect, I'd expect recompense. That isn't compensation culture in play at all. If you bought an item with your credit card, it broke and you couldn't use it, and the consumer credit act entitled you to a partial refund of sorts - would you decline it on principle?
I hate "compo culture" as much as anyone, but I can't see what this has to do with it.
JustinP1 said:
£30k in three years is astonishing.
This is a real case where the SOGA should apply. Clearly, when the warranty runs out, it's uneconomical to own the car.
Can I ask what the solicitor advised regarding a potential claim?
A load of stuff that I ant remember off the top of my head. I've left it with them to sort but they're pretty confident, but I guess they will be as they earn either way. This is a real case where the SOGA should apply. Clearly, when the warranty runs out, it's uneconomical to own the car.
Can I ask what the solicitor advised regarding a potential claim?
theboss said:
I hate "compo culture" as much as anyone, but I can't see what this has to do with it.
It's just the term used that peeves, 'i would expect some recompense' (admittedly not from the OP). I immediately think demands of holidays, thousands of pounds and whatever is on the cards. If it were my car, I'd be annoyed, and if on finance, yes i'd potentially be asking them to potentially contribute - but nothing over and above that; the dealer is going to great lengths it seems to get resolved.Lurking Lawyer said:
Soov535 said:
So now four qualified lawyers (two solicitors and two barristers) have told our hero to stop being silly, but the thread is still running.
Shall we make it five?Edited by Lurking Lawyer on Friday 31st July 13:23
By all means kick up a fuss and demand a bigger courtesy car more in keeping with the kind of vehicle you expect to be driving, but the rejection boat hasn't so much sailed, as never docked in the first place.
If you want rid of it the best you can hope for, I reckon, is a decent trade-in from BMW - they'll still sting you for a goodly sum though I'm afraid.
theboss said:
I may be entirely wrong and I'd gratefully stand corrected by one of our resident lawyers, but the fact that the OP PCP'd the car with the manufacturer's own finance division must give him some extra leg to stand on by virtue of regulation and consumer rights derived from the sale of goods by credit.
As I said above, if I were forking out PCP payments to a manucturer's finance arm, for a car which sat in their compound for a significant period of time awaiting repair of a manufacturing defect, I'd expect recompense. That isn't compensation culture in play at all. If you bought an item with your credit card, it broke and you couldn't use it, and the consumer credit act entitled you to a partial refund of sorts - would you decline it on principle?
I hate "compo culture" as much as anyone, but I can't see what this has to do with it.
Why?As I said above, if I were forking out PCP payments to a manucturer's finance arm, for a car which sat in their compound for a significant period of time awaiting repair of a manufacturing defect, I'd expect recompense. That isn't compensation culture in play at all. If you bought an item with your credit card, it broke and you couldn't use it, and the consumer credit act entitled you to a partial refund of sorts - would you decline it on principle?
I hate "compo culture" as much as anyone, but I can't see what this has to do with it.
They're fixing it, and they've lent the O/P a car.
My wifes Z4 developed a crack in the 19 inch alloy at 3 years and a month old. The dealer got authorisation from BMW to fit a brand new wheel, but they were on back order from the manufacturer as its a common fault. BMW hired her a 320d for the three weeks it took to sort out AND, because it was the friday of a bank holiday weekend the dealer lent her a 1 series until BMW could sort out a hire car on the Tuesday, because the dealer didnt want her driving the car with a risk of a blow out.
I guess you're saying she would have been entitled to com-pen-say-shun because she didnt get the benefit of her monthly payment on the car that month?
I'm sure she could feign "losing all confidence in the car" if you think that would help?
daemon said:
theboss said:
I may be entirely wrong and I'd gratefully stand corrected by one of our resident lawyers, but the fact that the OP PCP'd the car with the manufacturer's own finance division must give him some extra leg to stand on by virtue of regulation and consumer rights derived from the sale of goods by credit.
As I said above, if I were forking out PCP payments to a manucturer's finance arm, for a car which sat in their compound for a significant period of time awaiting repair of a manufacturing defect, I'd expect recompense. That isn't compensation culture in play at all. If you bought an item with your credit card, it broke and you couldn't use it, and the consumer credit act entitled you to a partial refund of sorts - would you decline it on principle?
I hate "compo culture" as much as anyone, but I can't see what this has to do with it.
Why?As I said above, if I were forking out PCP payments to a manucturer's finance arm, for a car which sat in their compound for a significant period of time awaiting repair of a manufacturing defect, I'd expect recompense. That isn't compensation culture in play at all. If you bought an item with your credit card, it broke and you couldn't use it, and the consumer credit act entitled you to a partial refund of sorts - would you decline it on principle?
I hate "compo culture" as much as anyone, but I can't see what this has to do with it.
They're fixing it, and they've lent the O/P a car.
My wifes Z4 developed a crack in the 19 inch alloy at 3 years and a month old. The dealer got authorisation from BMW to fit a brand new wheel, but they were on back order from the manufacturer as its a common fault. BMW hired her a 320d for the three weeks it took to sort out AND, because it was the friday of a bank holiday weekend the dealer lent her a 1 series until BMW could sort out a hire car on the Tuesday, because the dealer didnt want her driving the car with a risk of a blow out.
I guess you're saying she would have been entitled to com-pen-say-shun because she didnt get the benefit of her monthly payment on the car that month?
I'm sure she could feign "losing all confidence in the car" if you think that would help?
The OP has acknowledged a reject is a bit OTT and seems happy, meanwhile BMW have seemingly happily refunded some of his payment because it appears they agree with my point of view and not yours. Why the wail-esque pseudo-outrage about "com-pen-say-shun"?
Edited by theboss on Friday 31st July 14:18
theboss said:
If I were in his shoes I'd be asking BMW nicely if they would offer me an alternative M5 to use or return some of outlay.
I'd wager that the dealer is unlikely to have an M5 lying around to let the OP have for a week or two. They're sure as hell not going to order on in especially.They have provided the OP with a courtesy car. The MINIs quite a nice one, no its not an M5, but its hardly a s
tbox either. They have also given him a goodwill bung (carefully worded as "full and final settlement").Dealer and BMW are already being pretty good about this IMHO.
Happiness and love shall prevail as the Op appears to have jacked in the notion of rejecting the heap.
A propos of not much at all, I recall that when I had a reasonably good 1992 E36 325i in for some work in about 1993 (I was young and stupid then and still bought newish cars and was still stupid enough to take them to main dealers to be fiddled with), BMW lent me an E34 520i with an autobox. Crikey, that was a heavy old knacker, and no fun at all to drive. Better than an orange Mini, I suppose, but maybe not much.
A propos of not much at all, I recall that when I had a reasonably good 1992 E36 325i in for some work in about 1993 (I was young and stupid then and still bought newish cars and was still stupid enough to take them to main dealers to be fiddled with), BMW lent me an E34 520i with an autobox. Crikey, that was a heavy old knacker, and no fun at all to drive. Better than an orange Mini, I suppose, but maybe not much.
mikeveal said:
theboss said:
If I were in his shoes I'd be asking BMW nicely if they would offer me an alternative M5 to use or return some of outlay.
I'd wager that the dealer is unlikely to have an M5 lying around to let the OP have for a week or two. They're sure as hell not going to order on in especially.They have provided the OP with a courtesy car. The MINIs quite a nice one, no its not an M5, but its hardly a s
tbox either. They have also given him a goodwill bung (carefully worded as "full and final settlement").Dealer and BMW are already being pretty good about this IMHO.
Edited by theboss on Friday 31st July 14:24
crashley said:
theboss said:
I hate "compo culture" as much as anyone, but I can't see what this has to do with it.
It's just the term used that peeves, 'i would expect some recompense' (admittedly not from the OP). I immediately think demands of holidays, thousands of pounds and whatever is on the cards. If it were my car, I'd be annoyed, and if on finance, yes i'd potentially be asking them to potentially contribute - but nothing over and above that; the dealer is going to great lengths it seems to get resolved.If I'd bought it outright then I don't think you could expect much more than to get the problem sorted exactly as is happening, but the fact is the finance gives the OP some extra weight.
Of course you'd have to question the sanity of buying an M5 outright when BMW are subsidising 0% finance, but that is beside the point.
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