The new Average speed cameras on the A40 /westway West Lond

[Slaav]

So have we agreed that these A40 cameras are live or not?

Coming back into town at gone midnight on Monday night/Tuesday morning, I was really uneasy sticking yo the limits - particularly on the Westway where only one taxi sat in lane 1 behind me sticking to c. 43-44 indicated.

Coming in from the Polish memorial isn't such an issue I think as despite bods slowing for cameras, there are enough that it isn't such an issue sticking it on cruise control - you can even send a few emails or texts at that speed (last week some roared past us like a proper only for us to pass him some moles later with a scrap of paper and pen, whilst holding his mobile to us ear with his shoulder - I assume steering with jus knees?)

There really are some awful s out there in cars and speed cameras of any kind are unlikely to catch them or educate them!

[Dave Finney]

V8 Fettler said:

Dave Finney said:

robinessex said:

Shaoxter said:

Why, just WHY???!!!

Safety cameras have proved successful in reducing road casualties in recent years. At locations where safety cameras operate in the capital, research shows that the number of people killed or seriously injured (KSI) fell by an average of 58 per cent, meaning that the cameras help to prevent 500 deaths or serious injuries each year.


Didn't you know that ?

That's a quote from Transport for London's (TfL) website but it is misleading and/or false. What TfL don't tell their citizens is that the 58% KSI reduction was not due to the speed cameras but was due to a combination of several factors, the largest of which is probably site-selection effects (or RTM). TfL have not measured any of the factors therefore we don't know if the KSI reduction would have been greater without the speed cameras, lower, or if it would have been the same.

This problem is easy to resolve. All TfL have to do is deploy their speed cameras within simple scientific trials:
http://speedcamerareport.co.uk/02_scientific_trial...
Note: the A40 average speed cameras could easily have been deployed within a scientific trial, but TfL decided against performing proper tests.

That's all rather damning, there would have been a time when the AA or the RAC would have taken this up with the Minister for Transport.

The authorities attempts to deal with site-selection effects (RTM) at speed camera sites does not inspire confidence.

At first the authorities appeared to be unaware that such an effect existed at all, then they claimed it was negligible but eventually, in the UK's largest official speed camera report, they produced an estimate. The estimate suggested that site-selection was not just the largest influence on KSI rates at speed camera sites, it was larger than all other effects combined. Even that estimate used a model that was configured to produce an under-estimate of the effect of site-selection.

When site-selection effects were eventually measured, they were found to be larger than the entire reduction that had occurred at speed camera sites. This means that speed cameras are resulting in more deaths and more serious injuries, but there is a solution: Simply run all speed cameras within scientific trials.

[Dave Finney]

Slaav said:

So have we agreed that these A40 cameras are live or not?

No, I don't think they are live yet. Transport for London have stated: "There will be information regarding the expected enforcement of the Average Speed System provided to motorists by the local Variable Message Signs in the weeks leading up to the system going live".

There has not been any mention on the "local Variable Message Signs" yet, so we should still be weeks away. This suggests mid Sept at earliest.

[Slaav]

Dave Finney said:

Slaav said:

So have we agreed that these A40 cameras are live or not?

No, I don't think they are live yet. Transport for London have stated: "There will be information regarding the expected enforcement of the Average Speed System provided to motorists by the local Variable Message Signs in the weeks leading up to the system going live".

There has not been any mention on the "local Variable Message Signs" yet, so we should still be weeks away. This suggests mid Sept at earliest.

Thanks. May stick to them anyway just in case

[Greenmantle]

Looks like there was a bad accident eastbound just on the exit of the Hanger Lane tunnel (about 100 yards out). Traffic had to go over the top. Looks like it was a motorbike.

John

[robinessex]

V8 Fettler said:

Dave Finney said:

robinessex said:

Shaoxter said:

Why, just WHY???!!!

Safety cameras have proved successful in reducing road casualties in recent years. At locations where safety cameras operate in the capital, research shows that the number of people killed or seriously injured (KSI) fell by an average of 58 per cent, meaning that the cameras help to prevent 500 deaths or serious injuries each year.


Didn't you know that ?

That's a quote from Transport for London's (TfL) website but it is misleading and/or false. What TfL don't tell their citizens is that the 58% KSI reduction was not due to the speed cameras but was due to a combination of several factors, the largest of which is probably site-selection effects (or RTM). TfL have not measured any of the factors therefore we don't know if the KSI reduction would have been greater without the speed cameras, lower, or if it would have been the same.

This problem is easy to resolve. All TfL have to do is deploy their speed cameras within simple scientific trials:
http://speedcamerareport.co.uk/02_scientific_trial...
Note: the A40 average speed cameras could easily have been deployed within a scientific trial, but TfL decided against performing proper tests.

That's all rather damning, there would have been a time when the AA or the RAC would have taken this up with the Minister for Transport.

If you are interested in motorists being represented, then I suggest you join the ABD

http://www.abd.org.uk/

[HotJambalaya]

Getting a bit confused by this, came back the other day from the westfield turning straight to the marylebone road, are there any average cameras in that stretch in either direction? I didnt see a thing

[gdaybruce]

HotJambalaya said:

Getting a bit confused by this, came back the other day from the westfield turning straight to the marylebone road, are there any average cameras in that stretch in either direction? I didnt see a thing

I too joined the Westway at the Northern Roundabout this morning, heading into town (avoiding the closure at Hanger Lane mentioned above by diverting to the M4). I couldn't see a camera on the slip where I joined the Westway but there is an end of section camera near the bottom of the dip after the Paddington exit. This means that either I missed the first camera (driving into the sun at that point so very possible) or they've yet to install it or just possibly, they're not going to bother to monitor traffic joining at the Northern roundabout. Time will tell!

[Dave Finney]

Slaav said:

Dave Finney said:

Slaav said:

So have we agreed that these A40 cameras are live or not?

No, I don't think they are live yet. Transport for London have stated: "There will be information regarding the expected enforcement of the Average Speed System provided to motorists by the local Variable Message Signs in the weeks leading up to the system going live".

There has not been any mention on the "local Variable Message Signs" yet, so we should still be weeks away. This suggests mid Sept at earliest.

Thanks. May stick to them anyway just in case

Which begs the question, why did you ask?

[Dave Finney]

Observant A40 users may have noticed the new "local Variable Message Signs" appearing along the route. This suggests that Transport for London are going to provide information on these signs "in the weeks leading up to the system going live". It's still looking like the system is not live now and will go live around mid Sept.

[Slaav]

Dave Finney said:

Observant A40 users may have noticed the new "local Variable Message Signs" appearing along the route. This suggests that Transport for London are going to provide information on these signs "in the weeks leading up to the system going live". It's still looking like the system is not live now and will go live around mid Sept.

Thanks - I will look out for those. (I will ignore the answer above )

[masermartin]

Certainly the lights on the camera gantries are running throguhout the night. I wonder if they operate without those lights?

[Dave Finney]

masermartin said:

Certainly the lights on the camera gantries are running throguhout the night. I wonder if they operate without those lights?

Other ANPR cameras don't have those lights, so I suspect the A40 speed camera system would work quite well without them. The system won't recognise every single No plate that goes by so the lights are probably there to increase the vehicle capture rate, day or night, whatever the weather conditions (inc fog?).

[7db]

gdaybruce said:

This means that either I missed the first camera (driving into the sun at that point so very possible) or they've yet to install it or just possibly, they're not going to bother to monitor traffic joining at the Northern roundabout. Time will tell!

There's an entry camera on the Western Cross Route (ie the DC past Westfield) just before it joins the A40 roundabout. Not seen any on other entrances to the Northern Roundabout.

[7db]

FYI there's a signed (so pre-planned?) Police operation on the A40 this evening which has a lot of Traffic vehicles. Could it be calibration and testing of the cameras against calibrated speedos? That would make sense as one of the things to do before going live. You be the judge...

[Dave Finney]

Transport for London have added a new camera to their average speed camera system. It photographs vehicles Eastbound at the Hoover building.

Have they moved the start of the 40mph further out of London to match where the new camera is?

[ORD]

This morning, I didnt see any 30mph speed limit signs where the Westway flyover ends. Maybe I just missed them, but I have never failed to notice them before, as it always seems to me that the speed limit change takes place at a strange point.

[7db]

Dave Finney said:

Transport for London have added a new camera to their average speed camera system. It photographs vehicles Eastbound at the Hoover building.

Have they moved the start of the 40mph further out of London to match where the new camera is?

I noticed that today as well. The 40mph is still at the same place -- just by the Hoover building.

There's an empty pole at the Concorde turning between Hanger Lane and Gypsy Corner which I assume will have a camera pair shortly.

[Dave Finney]

7db said:

Dave Finney said:

Transport for London have added a new camera to their average speed camera system. It photographs vehicles Eastbound at the Hoover building.

Have they moved the start of the 40mph further out of London to match where the new camera is?

I noticed that today as well. The 40mph is still at the same place -- just by the Hoover building.

There's an empty pole at the Concorde turning between Hanger Lane and Gypsy Corner which I assume will have a camera pair shortly.

Yes, Eastbound opposite Renault. Speed cameras yet to be installed on it. I'm still expecting another camera gantry Eastbound at the 50 to 40. System still being built and go-live-date still yet to be announced.

Notice that, with the exception of traffic-light speed-cameras, all stand alone speed cameras have been removed, even the one in the 70mph at the Polish.

We might expect the removal of the fixed speed cameras to result in a reduction in fatal and serious injuries, but what effect will the average speed cameras have? And, more importantly without a control group to compare against, how will we know?

[CoolHands]

Can the new average speed cameras also work as stand alone cameras though? Perhaps they do both.