The new Average speed cameras on the A40 /westway West Lond
Discussion
I am now using the A40 Polish War to Paddington every day now on my bike and I am sticking to the limits but there are many people who aren't. Does anyone know how they are working the averages out since there are many traffic lights. I am presuming they are not counting those wait times in the average so as long as you get caught by one set of lights you should be fine?
John
John
First off – hands up I’ve not read this thread in it’s entirety, but coming from north of Watford, I don’t know the area in question, so a couple of questions.
Firstly, the section of road(s) in question – does it have different limits at different points along it’s route?
Secondly, if this is the case, are the cameras located at each change in limit.?
Firstly, the section of road(s) in question – does it have different limits at different points along it’s route?
Secondly, if this is the case, are the cameras located at each change in limit.?
Greenmantle said:
I am now using the A40 Polish War to Paddington every day now on my bike and I am sticking to the limits but there are many people who aren't. Does anyone know how they are working the averages out since there are many traffic lights. I am presuming they are not counting those wait times in the average so as long as you get caught by one set of lights you should be fine?
John
,Several sets of cameras and if you go over the average speed of say cameras 3 and 4 you are done,,that is why turning off to go to say northolt or greenford as opposed to going passed the last one on the Paddington turn off wont help youJohn
smashy said:
Ok,a member of my local forum ,seems very clued up ,he says they are going live 21st Aug,me Im not taking any chances before though.
Re the poster now going to use the M4...im not saying do it,I dont but I was a passenger in my old MDs car was coming in and he was passing the 60 mph cameras at 80 plus and well over the 40 mph one further towards London around heathrow/brentford ,I said are you mad ,he said hes been doing it for years they are not in use.There you go
The press release about this scheme also implied that most film cameras in London are no longer being used. It referred to replacing them with digital as the old ones had become uneconomic to operate. I suspect your old MD is correct however given the number of cameras I pass on my commute it's not a theory I'm keen to test.Re the poster now going to use the M4...im not saying do it,I dont but I was a passenger in my old MDs car was coming in and he was passing the 60 mph cameras at 80 plus and well over the 40 mph one further towards London around heathrow/brentford ,I said are you mad ,he said hes been doing it for years they are not in use.There you go
Chris1255 said:
smashy said:
Ok,a member of my local forum ,seems very clued up ,he says they are going live 21st Aug,me Im not taking any chances before though.
Re the poster now going to use the M4...im not saying do it,I dont but I was a passenger in my old MDs car was coming in and he was passing the 60 mph cameras at 80 plus and well over the 40 mph one further towards London around heathrow/brentford ,I said are you mad ,he said hes been doing it for years they are not in use.There you go
The press release about this scheme also implied that most film cameras in London are no longer being used. It referred to replacing them with digital as the old ones had become uneconomic to operate. I suspect your old MD is correct however given the number of cameras I pass on my commute it's not a theory I'm keen to test.Re the poster now going to use the M4...im not saying do it,I dont but I was a passenger in my old MDs car was coming in and he was passing the 60 mph cameras at 80 plus and well over the 40 mph one further towards London around heathrow/brentford ,I said are you mad ,he said hes been doing it for years they are not in use.There you go
So TfL say their speed cameras are not live now and won't go live until weeks after they start messaging. That suggests mid Sept.
number 46 said:
Yea, its all about safety !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bulls
t, its the socilaist dream, revenue generation and surveilence and control.
And yet this latest and most vile of systems is being installed under a Tory govt of 6 years. One who promised to be a friend to the motorist.t, its the socilaist dream, revenue generation and surveilence and control.Duplicitous or what.
Dave Finney said:
There are now over 7 average speed cameras on the A40 into and out of London.
The way they work is:
each camera sends video to a computer
the computer scans the video looking for number plates
when it sees one it:
1) records the picture
2) reads and records the registration number
3) records the time
So, for each camera, there's a picture of every vehicle that passed, with it's No plate and the time.
The computers then subtract the times of each vehicle between cameras and, knowing the distance between each camera, they can see if any vehicle reached a following camera in a time shorter than is allowed. If so, that vehicle must have travelled faster than the limit.
Note, it doesn't matter what speed you pass each camera. You could do 80mph past every camera and you shouldn't be prosecuted for speeding, so long as you stop for a while in between each pair of cameras!
You'll also note that every single vehicle is photographed, speeding or not, time and time again as it travels. This means the authorities know where every single vehicle was, and when it was there, day or night, all of the time. They might also see from the photographs how many occupants in each vehicle, age, sex, descriptions etc. This can be very useful to track terrorists, criminals, demonstrators, activists, political opposition groups, and anyone else the authorities may wish to monitor.
Thats a boat load of storage for the images isn't it?! Is it strictly necessary to have the picture? Or are they deleted after so long so that disk space doesn't become silly?The way they work is:
each camera sends video to a computer
the computer scans the video looking for number plates
when it sees one it:
1) records the picture
2) reads and records the registration number
3) records the time
So, for each camera, there's a picture of every vehicle that passed, with it's No plate and the time.
The computers then subtract the times of each vehicle between cameras and, knowing the distance between each camera, they can see if any vehicle reached a following camera in a time shorter than is allowed. If so, that vehicle must have travelled faster than the limit.
Note, it doesn't matter what speed you pass each camera. You could do 80mph past every camera and you shouldn't be prosecuted for speeding, so long as you stop for a while in between each pair of cameras!
You'll also note that every single vehicle is photographed, speeding or not, time and time again as it travels. This means the authorities know where every single vehicle was, and when it was there, day or night, all of the time. They might also see from the photographs how many occupants in each vehicle, age, sex, descriptions etc. This can be very useful to track terrorists, criminals, demonstrators, activists, political opposition groups, and anyone else the authorities may wish to monitor.
Also I would love to know the hit rate of the NPR system because we had one where I used to work in order to let you in the gates without needing to swipe a security card. It worked maybe 8 times out of 10 and that situation is only a car sitting stationary in front of a camera (or moving slowly toward the camera as you approach the gate).
smashy said:
It has to be said that if there were no cameras on the N circ between hanger Lane and Bounds green that would be a racetrack with I reckon some nasty consequences
Yeah but they're just normal speed cameras, massive difference. I live just off the North Circular and the progress you can make at night is superb. I've never killed any kittens doing that either.Perhaps we might see the more complacent majority of UK motorists becoming concerned about mind numbing journeys on empty roads with limits applicable only in times of modest congestion (since flow is limited naturally by VERY heavy traffic)? Once normal folk start noticing the 'overkill' these ASC's represent the dheads who are hell bent on using them by default might have to listen - they don't seem keen on using logical thought processes at present 
So, either the scams go, or the limits go up (or become variable and hence appropriate to the conditions). One can but hope for common sense to eventually prevail ..... or the modern citizenry has been subdued into mindless compliance by years of exposure to a nanny-state?
heads who are hell bent on using them by default might have to listen - they don't seem keen on using logical thought processes at present So, either the scams go, or the limits go up (or become variable and hence appropriate to the conditions). One can but hope for common sense to eventually prevail ..... or the modern citizenry has been subdued into mindless compliance by years of exposure to a nanny-state?
Shaoxter said:
Yeah but they're just normal speed cameras, massive difference. I live just off the North Circular and the progress you can make at night is superb. I've never killed any kittens doing that either.
My first speeding points were on the western ave Acton 2am in the morning 46 in the 40 had never seen them before it was 1995 so I know what you mean.Otispunkmeyer said:
Dave Finney said:
There are now over 7 average speed cameras on the A40 into and out of London.
The way they work is:
each camera sends video to a computer
the computer scans the video looking for number plates
when it sees one it:
1) records the picture
2) reads and records the registration number
3) records the time
So, for each camera, there's a picture of every vehicle that passed, with it's No plate and the time.
The computers then subtract the times of each vehicle between cameras and, knowing the distance between each camera, they can see if any vehicle reached a following camera in a time shorter than is allowed. If so, that vehicle must have travelled faster than the limit.
Note, it doesn't matter what speed you pass each camera. You could do 80mph past every camera and you shouldn't be prosecuted for speeding, so long as you stop for a while in between each pair of cameras!
You'll also note that every single vehicle is photographed, speeding or not, time and time again as it travels. This means the authorities know where every single vehicle was, and when it was there, day or night, all of the time. They might also see from the photographs how many occupants in each vehicle, age, sex, descriptions etc. This can be very useful to track terrorists, criminals, demonstrators, activists, political opposition groups, and anyone else the authorities may wish to monitor.
Thats a boat load of storage for the images isn't it?! Is it strictly necessary to have the picture? Or are they deleted after so long so that disk space doesn't become silly?The way they work is:
each camera sends video to a computer
the computer scans the video looking for number plates
when it sees one it:
1) records the picture
2) reads and records the registration number
3) records the time
So, for each camera, there's a picture of every vehicle that passed, with it's No plate and the time.
The computers then subtract the times of each vehicle between cameras and, knowing the distance between each camera, they can see if any vehicle reached a following camera in a time shorter than is allowed. If so, that vehicle must have travelled faster than the limit.
Note, it doesn't matter what speed you pass each camera. You could do 80mph past every camera and you shouldn't be prosecuted for speeding, so long as you stop for a while in between each pair of cameras!
You'll also note that every single vehicle is photographed, speeding or not, time and time again as it travels. This means the authorities know where every single vehicle was, and when it was there, day or night, all of the time. They might also see from the photographs how many occupants in each vehicle, age, sex, descriptions etc. This can be very useful to track terrorists, criminals, demonstrators, activists, political opposition groups, and anyone else the authorities may wish to monitor.
Also I would love to know the hit rate of the NPR system because we had one where I used to work in order to let you in the gates without needing to swipe a security card. It worked maybe 8 times out of 10 and that situation is only a car sitting stationary in front of a camera (or moving slowly toward the camera as you approach the gate).
I read somewhere that the hit rate of ANPR systems is well over 90%, but can't remember where I saw that.
TfL say the A40 average speed cameras are not live yet but almost all drivers do now seem to be assuming that they are live.
Today I saw the remains of the 1st crash since the speed cameras were installed (and in a long while before that). It was a black car going into London after the Polish turnoff before 09:45 with serious scrapes all down the side (possible contact with central reservation).
Was there an injury in the crash? If so, did the Police record the injury in stats19 (they usually don't)? Did the average speed cameras contribute to this crash, or would there have been more without them?
Today I saw the remains of the 1st crash since the speed cameras were installed (and in a long while before that). It was a black car going into London after the Polish turnoff before 09:45 with serious scrapes all down the side (possible contact with central reservation).
Was there an injury in the crash? If so, did the Police record the injury in stats19 (they usually don't)? Did the average speed cameras contribute to this crash, or would there have been more without them?
The 40 limit on the west way is completely ignored in my experience. You feel like you're in reverse going along at 40. It should be a 50 or 60 limit and enforced with average speed cameras. The 40 limit being enforced will just increase congestion outside of rush hour, whereas now it is an extremely good road in the early hours - fast, flows very nicely, which will all be stopped when everyone is side by side and nose to tail at 40...cue concertina braking and traffic at a standstill.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff