No right turn, but did I turn right?
Discussion
300bhp/ton said:
As posted above from the Gov site:
"If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so."
I don't think wanting to turn right really counts as "necessary". Necessary would be unavoidable but not an emergency. You can easily avoid turning right by turning left.
"Should" is advisory not a mandate. If it was for emergency only it would say so. it would be "necessary" to cross it to turn right - which is OK (if you were allowed to right turn)"If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so."
I don't think wanting to turn right really counts as "necessary". Necessary would be unavoidable but not an emergency. You can easily avoid turning right by turning left.
qualitystreet said:
Ha. Or, if you get it wrong like I did, turn right past the bus station and do a full lap of the one-way system to get back to the same junction!
Your'e not the first! The bloke that designed this used to work in Barrow, and when he applied for the Cumbria County Council job, they gave him glowing references, and then had a party after he had gone!
So 300bhp/ton, just up the road to the left is this...
It is usually referred to as Plumgarths Roundabout... but IS it a roundabout?
Traffic from Windermere arriving via the A591 does not have to give way to anybody... unless they do a 360° before trying to get to Kendal!
Use Street view to look for the signs on the various roads that lead onto it!
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.3448714,-2.77447...
was8v said:
300bhp/ton said:
Just because the road you are entering happens to be on a bend, does not mean it isn't a right turn.
I'd go with this. You made a right turn (crossing the flow of traffic). To go down the road to the right you would need to make 2x right turns.The keep clear is for those coming from your right.
You should only turn left here.
There was never an intention to prevent travelling from Maude Street to Sandes Avenue, the No Right Turn sign was to prevent traffic in Maude Street (presumably looking to park) from cutting across oncoming traffic from Blackhall Road junction in order to get into Stricklandgate.
I'm torn on this. I think (with the emphasis on think and my opinion) that the no right turn sign is to prevent people turning fully right into the minor road, as I can't see any genuine reason to prevent people turning right (straight on) onto the main road. However, the sign has effectively made the turn onto the main road illegal.
I just think it's a bad sign and agree that if banning the right turn onto the main road was what was desired, that there would be a blue and white turn left sign in place of the no right turn sign.
I just think it's a bad sign and agree that if banning the right turn onto the main road was what was desired, that there would be a blue and white turn left sign in place of the no right turn sign.
LoonR1 said:
I'm torn on this. I think (with the emphasis on think and my opinion) that the no right turn sign is to prevent people turning fully right into the minor road, as I can't see any genuine reason to prevent people turning right (straight on) onto the main road. However, the sign has effectively made the turn onto the main road illegal.
I just think it's a bad sign and agree that if banning the right turn onto the main road was what was desired, that there would be a blue and white turn left sign in place of the no right turn sign.
I'd agree with that and until someone gets hold of the traffic order we don't know.I just think it's a bad sign and agree that if banning the right turn onto the main road was what was desired, that there would be a blue and white turn left sign in place of the no right turn sign.
Mill Wheel said:
just up the road to the left is this...
It is usually referred to as Plumgarths Roundabout... but IS it a roundabout?
Traffic from Windermere arriving via the A591 does not have to give way to anybody... unless they do a 360° before trying to get to Kendal!
Yet coming from the bypass and wanting to get into Kendal, I was rather surprised when the Give Way sign hove into view!It is usually referred to as Plumgarths Roundabout... but IS it a roundabout?
Traffic from Windermere arriving via the A591 does not have to give way to anybody... unless they do a 360° before trying to get to Kendal!
He didn't do Ambleside as well, did he?
Type R Tom said:
LoonR1 said:
I'm torn on this. I think (with the emphasis on think and my opinion) that the no right turn sign is to prevent people turning fully right into the minor road, as I can't see any genuine reason to prevent people turning right (straight on) onto the main road. However, the sign has effectively made the turn onto the main road illegal.
I just think it's a bad sign and agree that if banning the right turn onto the main road was what was desired, that there would be a blue and white turn left sign in place of the no right turn sign.
I'd agree with that and until someone gets hold of the traffic order we don't know.I just think it's a bad sign and agree that if banning the right turn onto the main road was what was desired, that there would be a blue and white turn left sign in place of the no right turn sign.
qualitystreet said:
Yet coming from the bypass and wanting to get into Kendal, I was rather surprised when the Give Way sign hove into view!
He didn't do Ambleside as well, did he?
All of South Cumbria!He didn't do Ambleside as well, did he?
He has made balls ups in Ulverston, Windermere, Ambleside... costing tens of thousands of pounds to undo!
You mean the "Give Way" once you were actually ON the roundabout?
There is no indication on the bypass that it is a roundabout - only on the A5284 and 5284!
A591 northbound... it's a give way junction, no roundabout sign.
A5284 northbound.. it's a roundabout!
This one way street in Ambleside has a chicane that forces traffic into the right hand lane, thus preventing traffic joining from the right and simply filtering. It would make more sense to put it on the right hand side!
Oh really: what's this then?http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/sectio...
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/sectio...
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/sectio...
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/schedu...
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/schedu...
Both South Lakeland District Council and Cumbria County council operate DPE.
Therefore they will have the necessary authority to issue a FPN for contravening a no right turn sign.
300bhp/ton said:
As posted above from the Gov site:
"If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so."
I don't think wanting to turn right really counts as "necessary". Necessary would be unavoidable but not an emergency. You can easily avoid turning right by turning left.
Necessary in this context means 'necessary in order to make the manoeuvre' not that the manoeuvre itself must be necessary."If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so."
I don't think wanting to turn right really counts as "necessary". Necessary would be unavoidable but not an emergency. You can easily avoid turning right by turning left.
300bhp/ton said:
Has anyone looked at the link the op posted?
It clearly says do not turn RIGHT at the junction. Just because the road you are entering happens to be on a bend, does not mean it isn't a right turn. To road on the right hand side has nothing to do with it, as it is impossible to enter that road, without turning right onto the main road first.
So there is no "straight on" at that junction, only left or right. Also if you note, to turn right (aka straight on) you'll have to cross over some red cross hatching.
Can't see any camera's on the links, so unless a mobile unit spotted you, I suspect no ticket. But it's crystal clear on it's meaning.
If you find these signs to be crystal clear you must be the human equivalent of a horse with blinkers.It clearly says do not turn RIGHT at the junction. Just because the road you are entering happens to be on a bend, does not mean it isn't a right turn. To road on the right hand side has nothing to do with it, as it is impossible to enter that road, without turning right onto the main road first.
So there is no "straight on" at that junction, only left or right. Also if you note, to turn right (aka straight on) you'll have to cross over some red cross hatching.
Can't see any camera's on the links, so unless a mobile unit spotted you, I suspect no ticket. But it's crystal clear on it's meaning.
Nearly everyone else apart from you seems to be confused.
Some Googling found this, from 2004:
http://councilportal.cumbria.gov.uk/Data/County%20...
Bottom of page 1
http://councilportal.cumbria.gov.uk/Data/County%20...
Bottom of page 1
Proposal said said:
As it is proposed to have a compulsory left turn from Windermere Road into Sandes Avenue, and no right turn from Maude Street into Stricklandgate, there will be no need for an additional stage at this junction, except to allow buses from Windermere Road into Stricklandgate.
Puddenchucker said:
Some Googling found this, from 2004:
http://councilportal.cumbria.gov.uk/Data/County%20...
Bottom of page 1
Good find.http://councilportal.cumbria.gov.uk/Data/County%20...
Bottom of page 1
Proposal said said:
As it is proposed to have a compulsory left turn from Windermere Road into Sandes Avenue, and no right turn from Maude Street into Stricklandgate, there will be no need for an additional stage at this junction, except to allow buses from Windermere Road into Stricklandgate.
It's poor signage then, and potentially poor wording on the proposal. They probably wanted to avoid repeating "compulsory left turn" in the document for some reason and this resulted in the sign being a No Right Turn, rather than more accurate, amd certainly far less confusing, "Left Turn Only" sign.
LoonR1 said:
Good find.
It's poor signage then, and potentially poor wording on the proposal. They probably wanted to avoid repeating "compulsory left turn" in the document for some reason and this resulted in the sign being a No Right Turn, rather than more accurate, amd certainly far less confusing, "Left Turn Only" sign.
Except that I don't agree that the intention in the proposal was to make the turn out of Maude St. left only. It says "and no right turn from Maude Street into Stricklandgate" which infers that they did intend allowing traffic to travel straight ahead from Maude St. (our starting position) into Sandes Avenue, which is what the OP was doing. The intention of (according to the proposal) is only to prevent traffic entering Stricklandgate from Maude St.It's poor signage then, and potentially poor wording on the proposal. They probably wanted to avoid repeating "compulsory left turn" in the document for some reason and this resulted in the sign being a No Right Turn, rather than more accurate, amd certainly far less confusing, "Left Turn Only" sign.
Sushifiend said:
LoonR1 said:
Good find.
It's poor signage then, and potentially poor wording on the proposal. They probably wanted to avoid repeating "compulsory left turn" in the document for some reason and this resulted in the sign being a No Right Turn, rather than more accurate, amd certainly far less confusing, "Left Turn Only" sign.
Except that I don't agree that the intention in the proposal was to make the turn out of Maude St. left only. It says "and no right turn from Maude Street into Stricklandgate" which infers that they did intend allowing traffic to travel straight ahead from Maude St. (our starting position) into Sandes Avenue, which is what the OP was doing. The intention of (according to the proposal) is only to prevent traffic entering Stricklandgate from Maude St.It's poor signage then, and potentially poor wording on the proposal. They probably wanted to avoid repeating "compulsory left turn" in the document for some reason and this resulted in the sign being a No Right Turn, rather than more accurate, amd certainly far less confusing, "Left Turn Only" sign.
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