Worth paying the extra insurance....

Worth paying the extra insurance....

Author
Discussion

Upatdawn

Original Poster:

2,182 posts

147 months

Monday 24th August 2015
quotequote all
Police had my video of a clear motoring offence so the driver gets a visit..


Cops - "who was the driver on the date and time of the offence"?

Mr X - "not sure, I have any driver insurance"

Mr X - "have you a photo of the driver?"

Cops - "no"

Mr X - "shut the door on your way out officer"

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Monday 24th August 2015
quotequote all
Upatdawn said:
Police had my video of a clear motoring offence so the driver gets a visit..

Cops - "who was the driver on the date and time of the offence"?

Mr X - "not sure, I have any driver insurance"

Mr X - "have you a photo of the driver?"

Cops - "no"

Mr X - "shut the door on your way out officer"
There should be a law against it!

Oh, wait a sec... There is.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/sectio...

The law said:
(4) A person shall not be guilty of an offence by virtue of paragraph (a) of subsection (2) above if he shows that he did not know and could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained who the driver of the vehicle was.
No, doesn't sound like he did that to me, either.

LoonR1

26,988 posts

176 months

Monday 24th August 2015
quotequote all
Upatdawn said:
Police had my video of a clear motoring offence so the driver gets a visit..


Cops - "who was the driver on the date and time of the offence"?

Mr X - "not sure, I have any driver insurance"

Mr X - "have you a photo of the driver?"

Cops - "no"

Mr X - "shut the door on your way out officer"
And you don't think the police are able to check whether he has this "any driver insurance"? Hint - they can and will check it. Tell me when you find a policy like this, it'll be very, very rare and unbelievably expensive.

Cat

3,017 posts

268 months

Monday 24th August 2015
quotequote all
Upatdawn said:
Police had my video of a clear motoring offence so the driver gets a visit..


Cops - "who was the driver on the date and time of the offence"?

Mr X - "not sure, I have any driver insurance"

Mr X - "have you a photo of the driver?"

Cops - "no"

Mr X - "shut the door on your way out officer"

Cops - "No problem, just before I do I'll give you this ticket for failing to identify the driver as required by section 172 of the Road Traffic Act 1988. It carries 6 points and a £200 penalty"

Mr X - "Ahh, but..."

Cops - "It's OK I'll get the the door".
I've added the final part of the conversation for you.

Cat

GT03ROB

13,210 posts

220 months

Monday 24th August 2015
quotequote all
Mr X does sound like a smart ass who will fail the attitude test. I'll wager the police will take a very close look at the car on the way out & find a number of endorsable offences.

MrBarry123

6,025 posts

120 months

Monday 24th August 2015
quotequote all
Not sure I like Mr X - sounds like a right numpty.

LoonR1

26,988 posts

176 months

Monday 24th August 2015
quotequote all
Upatdawn said:
Police had my video of a clear motoring offence so the driver gets a visit..


Cops - "who was the driver on the date and time of the offence"?

Mr X - "not sure, I have any driver insurance"

Mr X - "have you a photo of the driver?"

Cops - "no"

Mr X - "shut the door on your way out officer"
Pop the video on YouTube for us all to see as well. Just set up an account called upatdawn to protect your privacy if you're worried about that.

balls-out

3,586 posts

230 months

Monday 24th August 2015
quotequote all
Upatdawn said:
Police had my video of a clear motoring offence so the driver gets a visit..


Cops - "who was the driver on the date and time of the offence"?

Mr X - "not sure, I have any driver insurance"

Mr X - "have you a photo of the driver?"

Cops - "no"

Mr X - "shut the door on your way out officer"
Did this conversation take place in your head?

HantsRat

2,369 posts

107 months

Monday 24th August 2015
quotequote all
Mr X would need to attend court and persuade the magistrate that he could not identify the driver with due-diligence.

Mr X would need to show proof that he has contacted all employees, looked up driver records, shift patterns etc. A lot of work will be involved to prove that you honestly cannot name the driver and it will be unlikely the magistrate will side with Mr X.

photosnob

1,339 posts

117 months

Monday 24th August 2015
quotequote all
Mr X would be doing well if the driving offence was a serious one. Purely anecdotal as I don't have a car capable of it - but if I was caught doing well over a hundred I'd take the 6 points happily. If I was caught doing something really naughty by camera I'd happily take the 6 points. I'm sure it happens.

ZOLLAR

19,908 posts

172 months

Monday 24th August 2015
quotequote all
photosnob said:
Mr X would be doing well if the driving offence was a serious one. Purely anecdotal as I don't have a car capable of it - but if I was caught doing well over a hundred I'd take the 6 points happily. If I was caught doing something really naughty by camera I'd happily take the 6 points. I'm sure it happens.
It depends really, failing to disclose a driver lands you with an MS90 IIRC which generally will have a significant impact on insurance premiums (on par with your IN10s etc).
Probably better just to not speed beyond good measure.

photosnob

1,339 posts

117 months

Monday 24th August 2015
quotequote all
ZOLLAR said:
It depends really, failing to disclose a driver lands you with an MS90 IIRC which generally will have a significant impact on insurance premiums (on par with your IN10s etc).
Probably better just to not speed beyond good measure.
I drive relatively sensibly.

However I think if I was caught doing something very very silly my last worry would be a hike in insurance premiums.

Edited by photosnob on Monday 24th August 14:03

Upatdawn

Original Poster:

2,182 posts

147 months

Monday 24th August 2015
quotequote all
The copper came last night to return my SD card with the video file on it

what i posted is exactly what he said, any driver insurance, not sure who was driving, no image of the driver....

game over

they had checked the insurance

its a company but the same car travels the same route daily at 8am (ish) and ive seen it a few times driving like there is no tomorrow (one day there wont be).

i recorded him overtaking on double white lines on a bad bend with 2 HGV in his way, i was well back and still puckered my lips awaiting a large bang down the road..

LoonR1

26,988 posts

176 months

Monday 24th August 2015
quotequote all
Then the company will be taken to court.

HantsRat

2,369 posts

107 months

Monday 24th August 2015
quotequote all
Correct.

If the company does not release driver info then they can be taken to court and fined.

Rangeroverover

1,522 posts

110 months

Monday 24th August 2015
quotequote all
AGT confirmed this when I asked the question,

if the company doesn't identify the driver and the vehicle is company owned then the company will get a fine of probably £600, nobody gets any points, nobody gets increased insurance premiums. It is legally possible but unlikely that the Co Sec will get the points

So all you powerfully built driving God Co Directors on 9 points currently, keep quiet, let the company take the fine and the points go into the ether

An offshelfco to own the vehicle isn't an expensive excercise compared to bans, points, insurance hikes; a roadside stop would be a problem but any speed camera or similar not a problem.



Below is my original question,

Tuesday 11th August
I'm told that if your vehicle is registered to a company and you get a "who was driving at xxx time/date" letter and you fail to respond or just say you cannot be sure; that the company secretary will be awarded points/fine.

If by chance the Co Sec was a non driver I presume they would pick up the points on their non existent licence and whoever was driving would get off scott free.

Obviously this would be a terrible state of affairs, providing one hadn't set up the company structure for this reason alone I suppose there would be no criminal intent. I imagine you would want the vehicle insured for general/pool use.

Is this bar talk nonsense or is there a grain of truth in this

Below AGT Law's answer

The company is prosecuted. Maximum fine is £1000 and usually around £500-£600 - allowing some credit for a guilty plea.

The company secretary could be prosecuted, but I've never seen it happen.

gruffalo

7,509 posts

225 months

Monday 24th August 2015
quotequote all
LoonR1 said:
Upatdawn said:
Police had my video of a clear motoring offence so the driver gets a visit..


Cops - "who was the driver on the date and time of the offence"?

Mr X - "not sure, I have any driver insurance"

Mr X - "have you a photo of the driver?"

Cops - "no"

Mr X - "shut the door on your way out officer"
And you don't think the police are able to check whether he has this "any driver insurance"? Hint - they can and will check it. Tell me when you find a policy like this, it'll be very, very rare and unbelievably expensive.
I have a car insured for any one over 25 to drive, not all that expensive and very useful.


ZOLLAR

19,908 posts

172 months

Monday 24th August 2015
quotequote all
photosnob said:
ZOLLAR said:
It depends really, failing to disclose a driver lands you with an MS90 IIRC which generally will have a significant impact on insurance premiums (on par with your IN10s etc).
Probably better just to not speed beyond good measure.
I drive relatively sensibly.

However I think if I was caught doing something very very silly my last worry would be a hike in insurance premiums.

Edited by photosnob on Monday 24th August 14:03
Yeah I suppose I'd agree, if it was something serious enough it maybe worth taking the MS90.

ging84

8,832 posts

145 months

Monday 24th August 2015
quotequote all
Upatdawn said:
Police had my video of a clear motoring offence so the driver gets a visit..


Cops - "who was the driver on the date and time of the offence"?

Mr X - "not sure, I have any driver insurance"

Mr X - "have you a photo of the driver?"

Cops - "no"

Mr X - "shut the door on your way out officer"
One fatal flaw in this fantasy
how did the driver get a visit from the cops if they were not able to identify him

Pontoneer

3,643 posts

185 months

Tuesday 25th August 2015
quotequote all
Upatdawn said:
The copper came last night to return my SD card with the video file on it

what i posted is exactly what he said, any driver insurance, not sure who was driving, no image of the driver....

game over

they had checked the insurance

its a company but the same car travels the same route daily at 8am (ish) and ive seen it a few times driving like there is no tomorrow (one day there wont be).

i recorded him overtaking on double white lines on a bad bend with 2 HGV in his way, i was well back and still puckered my lips awaiting a large bang down the road..
I'd like to think that if the police now know that this vehicle is regularly driven in this manner along the same route at around the same time they might keep an eye out for it .