Need some really good divorce advice!
Discussion
MrTurtle said:
ClaphamGT3 said:
She can ask for whatever she likes; what the court will award may be very different.
If you haven't already look at the attached - applying for an occupation order could back fire on her rather spectacularly.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/relationships/re...
VERY interesting, I may apply myself.If you haven't already look at the attached - applying for an occupation order could back fire on her rather spectacularly.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/relationships/re...
From the word go I ask to be allowed access for the odd weekend so I could stay over with the kids. This was when she said 'no, this is my house now', changed the locks and used my request as evidence of abuse.
johnfm said:
She will require some evidence for an occupation order. That will be interesting.
I seriously doubt it.The OP left the family home a year ago.
The OP entered the property unannounced, she will claim this is a regular occurrence.
She will claim she is frightened of him and he has threatened her previously.
She will get the Occupation Order.
Put yourself in the judges shoes, he will see the following
Family home: How much equity
Other Assets: car, boat, savings, policies etc
Income: from him
Income from her
The judge is then going to have to work out how to divide everything up so that its fair for both sides, they see it every day.
Just because she thinks she is entitled to something doesn't mean she will get it, she will be egged on by the coven of other divorced man haters who will encourage her to go for the jugular.
Just let it happen, do what you think is right, you can always make more money, don't get over stressed about money and possesions, the best revenge is to be happy
Family home: How much equity
Other Assets: car, boat, savings, policies etc
Income: from him
Income from her
The judge is then going to have to work out how to divide everything up so that its fair for both sides, they see it every day.
Just because she thinks she is entitled to something doesn't mean she will get it, she will be egged on by the coven of other divorced man haters who will encourage her to go for the jugular.
Just let it happen, do what you think is right, you can always make more money, don't get over stressed about money and possesions, the best revenge is to be happy
ClaphamGT3 said:
Mr T - if it takes a random chartered surveyor on a motoring forum to point you to info on an occupation order, sack your current solicitors pronto and get someone on the case who's up to the job otherwise your wife and her team are going to be inserting a very large c*ck up your butt
The problem you have is you can't tell a good solicitor from a bad solicitor until it's too late. I could change but how do I know the next one will be any better, they may be worse.Looking at the info on the occupation order it should have been the first think I asked for.
MrTurtle said:
ClaphamGT3 said:
Mr T - if it takes a random chartered surveyor on a motoring forum to point you to info on an occupation order, sack your current solicitors pronto and get someone on the case who's up to the job otherwise your wife and her team are going to be inserting a very large c*ck up your butt
The problem you have is you can't tell a good solicitor from a bad solicitor until it's too late. I could change but how do I know the next one will be any better, they may be worse.Looking at the info on the occupation order it should have been the first think I asked for.
PurpleMoonlight said:
johnfm said:
She will require some evidence for an occupation order. That will be interesting.
I seriously doubt it.The OP left the family home a year ago.
The OP entered the property unannounced, she will claim this is a regular occurrence.
She will claim she is frightened of him and he has threatened her previously.
She will get the Occupation Order.
MrTurtle said:
johnfm said:
She will require some evidence for an occupation order. That will be interesting.
DON'T BE A DOORMAT is all I will add. You get no medals for being nice. Look after #1 (you) so that you can look after your kids.
How? Feel like I hold no cards and whatever I try and do I just seem to dig a bigger hole. Asserting myself just plays into her argument of emotional abuse.DON'T BE A DOORMAT is all I will add. You get no medals for being nice. Look after #1 (you) so that you can look after your kids.
Certainly stop paying her any dividends and wages. Pay the correct maintenance/child support - not more. You can always provide things separately to the kids.
Asserting yourself doesn't mean charging about with your chest puffed out - just do things by the book and do not concede where you don't have to or want to.
MrTurtle said:
ClaphamGT3 said:
Mr T - if it takes a random chartered surveyor on a motoring forum to point you to info on an occupation order, sack your current solicitors pronto and get someone on the case who's up to the job otherwise your wife and her team are going to be inserting a very large c*ck up your butt
The problem you have is you can't tell a good solicitor from a bad solicitor until it's too late. I could change but how do I know the next one will be any better, they may be worse.Looking at the info on the occupation order it should have been the first think I asked for.
The Family Court system in England and Wale is designed to induce people to settle prior to having a trial at which the judge must decide how to allocate the assets and any ongoing obligations.
Except in extremis, a court would have no interest in who was right or who was wrong. Apart from questions of law, the court does not "do" morality. One spouse may have been an angel and the other the lowest of the low, but the court will not care. That may not be fair, but it's the way it works.
That leaves the criteria for a financial settlement down to "objective" numbers relating to the parties' ages, earning prospects, reasonable needs, etc, as well as the marital assets.
For this reason there are formulae that apply to the finances of most marital situations. It is made simpler in the case of a marriage of more than 10 years; beyond that duration, the marital assets are presumed to be split 50-50, except in rare circs.
All good family law solicitors and barristers will have a decent sense of how a judge would apply the formulae. The outcome of a trial will be pretty predictable.
For that reason, although the wife's sol might say "55-45", and the husband's say "45-55", they both should have a quite good idea of how a judge would rule - if there were a trial. Because a trial would in almost all cases involve a great deal more expense and aggravation to the parties than the difference between 55-45 and 45-55, the solicitors on both sides should steer the clients towards, and have the professional goal of, a private agreement which need only be endorsed by a judge, rather than having the trial at which the judge would actually decide.
As soon as the solicitors' invoices start coming in, disputants tend quickly to be more willing to consider a settlement, rather than fighting to the last ditch in court.
Mr Turtles, its as if we are twins but I am 18 months further on than you at the moment.
The parallels to my own separation and subsequent divorce are scarily close to yours.
Lots of good advice and facts in here, but some of the sentiment given is just that, what you/others think is fair is not what the judges will think when children are involved.
I went back into the house 3 months after I moved out, started to move my things back in etc, she called the police just like yours did in front on my kids. First time they were decent but they asked me to leave or I would be arrested for breach of the peace, but I could return the next day no problem, and told me if the same thing happened again it was her turn to leave.
Few days later I went back, she did the same, the police kicked her out that time :-) and left me with the children in the house, that was a Saturday. Monday morning she texts me to say she wants to take the kids out for the day I said fine and told her she had as much access rights back into the house as me.
4.30 pm that day, knock on the door, police van on my drive full of plod in riot gear (I had never in my 44 years had any dealings with the police at all) Court official hands me an envelope inside was an occupation order and a non molestation order, I had 15 mins to leave or be arrested. She is sat outside watching it all in her car with the kids in the back. She had spent all day Sunday with her solicitor drafting up the fanciful application!
I later find out the judges hand them out like smarties, without you even getting to defend yourself I could not go within 100 yards of the house for the next year!
She then dragged me through the courts, was a well paid teacher but took voluntary redundancy just before the final hearing and told the judge she could no longer afford to pay a mortgage as a result.
Cut to the chase she got 72% of the house, which has to be sold as its equity rich, she kept 100% of the £60k redundancy package and did not have to pay one penny back of the £20k family savings she spent after we split, including a £5k boob job. It is essential you get a clean break agreement, as that is then it, no coming back for more, I don't have to pay spousal and just CSA for the children.
If children are involved you a furbared. The rub is she could not have kids, I did not particularly yearn for any but agreed to adopt two, as that is what she then wanted to do. I love them to bits regardless.
My solicitor was pretty useless, but even the best out there will not sway a judge when kids are in the mix.
We saw about 6 judges over the course of the divorce, if all six had sat in the final hearing there would have been 6 quite different judgments, I am sure of that, it is luck of the draw on the day what type you get but in essence the financial outcome would have been similar.
The only thing that made me smile was I got 30% of her very chunky pension pot which wiped the smile off her and her barristers faces that day!
My mums friend is an ex divorce lawyer and he explained it very simply to me. He said:-
The state put you together via the marriage ceremony and the judges job is to protect the state from financial losses by having to then break it up via a divorce, therefore the children are the prime consideration financially, the wife typically is seen as the main carer so she benefits from the home provided for the children, if there is anything left in the pot after that then you get a slice. If not tough luck.
He then went onto say basically regard yourself as 18 again, free as a bird but skint, and just get on with life, it is not fair but that is how the system works.
My main message is that there is light at the end of the tunnel, it is a long, very rocky very mentally fraught journey that at the time seems never ending, but you will get there. Dont let the b
ds grind you down, in the meantime get out and meet people, chat, run, have fun, I started back getting fit and have new social circle that revolves around that, dating and having fun, you will be the same but it takes time.
I was in that black pit of despair as well at the time, get and see your GP and tell them everything, there is no shame in it, they will sort you out until you can stand on your feet again unaided.
Good luck and any questions on the entire process just PM me, happy to help, a friend is going through the same, and is at about the same point as you, I had no one to chat to about how it all works, and wish I did at the time.
Also yes they do monitor the net, mine paid her solicitor to scout it for a whole day looking for anything they could throw at me, her barrister even told the judge I owned a Tristar, even though he did not even know what one was, I had great delight in telling the judge it was 200 seat wide bodied jet I had jokingly said I was going to buy on a thread on PH, when the RAF decommissioned their fleet, my solicitor told me that made her week and she nearly laughed out loud in court, my exes prat of a bolshy barristers face was a picture when I said that nugget!
The parallels to my own separation and subsequent divorce are scarily close to yours.
Lots of good advice and facts in here, but some of the sentiment given is just that, what you/others think is fair is not what the judges will think when children are involved.
I went back into the house 3 months after I moved out, started to move my things back in etc, she called the police just like yours did in front on my kids. First time they were decent but they asked me to leave or I would be arrested for breach of the peace, but I could return the next day no problem, and told me if the same thing happened again it was her turn to leave.
Few days later I went back, she did the same, the police kicked her out that time :-) and left me with the children in the house, that was a Saturday. Monday morning she texts me to say she wants to take the kids out for the day I said fine and told her she had as much access rights back into the house as me.
4.30 pm that day, knock on the door, police van on my drive full of plod in riot gear (I had never in my 44 years had any dealings with the police at all) Court official hands me an envelope inside was an occupation order and a non molestation order, I had 15 mins to leave or be arrested. She is sat outside watching it all in her car with the kids in the back. She had spent all day Sunday with her solicitor drafting up the fanciful application!
I later find out the judges hand them out like smarties, without you even getting to defend yourself I could not go within 100 yards of the house for the next year!
She then dragged me through the courts, was a well paid teacher but took voluntary redundancy just before the final hearing and told the judge she could no longer afford to pay a mortgage as a result.
Cut to the chase she got 72% of the house, which has to be sold as its equity rich, she kept 100% of the £60k redundancy package and did not have to pay one penny back of the £20k family savings she spent after we split, including a £5k boob job. It is essential you get a clean break agreement, as that is then it, no coming back for more, I don't have to pay spousal and just CSA for the children.
If children are involved you a furbared. The rub is she could not have kids, I did not particularly yearn for any but agreed to adopt two, as that is what she then wanted to do. I love them to bits regardless.
My solicitor was pretty useless, but even the best out there will not sway a judge when kids are in the mix.
We saw about 6 judges over the course of the divorce, if all six had sat in the final hearing there would have been 6 quite different judgments, I am sure of that, it is luck of the draw on the day what type you get but in essence the financial outcome would have been similar.
The only thing that made me smile was I got 30% of her very chunky pension pot which wiped the smile off her and her barristers faces that day!
My mums friend is an ex divorce lawyer and he explained it very simply to me. He said:-
The state put you together via the marriage ceremony and the judges job is to protect the state from financial losses by having to then break it up via a divorce, therefore the children are the prime consideration financially, the wife typically is seen as the main carer so she benefits from the home provided for the children, if there is anything left in the pot after that then you get a slice. If not tough luck.
He then went onto say basically regard yourself as 18 again, free as a bird but skint, and just get on with life, it is not fair but that is how the system works.
My main message is that there is light at the end of the tunnel, it is a long, very rocky very mentally fraught journey that at the time seems never ending, but you will get there. Dont let the b
ds grind you down, in the meantime get out and meet people, chat, run, have fun, I started back getting fit and have new social circle that revolves around that, dating and having fun, you will be the same but it takes time.I was in that black pit of despair as well at the time, get and see your GP and tell them everything, there is no shame in it, they will sort you out until you can stand on your feet again unaided.
Good luck and any questions on the entire process just PM me, happy to help, a friend is going through the same, and is at about the same point as you, I had no one to chat to about how it all works, and wish I did at the time.
Also yes they do monitor the net, mine paid her solicitor to scout it for a whole day looking for anything they could throw at me, her barrister even told the judge I owned a Tristar, even though he did not even know what one was, I had great delight in telling the judge it was 200 seat wide bodied jet I had jokingly said I was going to buy on a thread on PH, when the RAF decommissioned their fleet, my solicitor told me that made her week and she nearly laughed out loud in court, my exes prat of a bolshy barristers face was a picture when I said that nugget!
He then went onto say basically regard yourself as 18 again, free as a bird but skint, and just get on with life, it is not fair but that is how the system works.
This.
You give a lot up to have a relationship.
You get all that back in the end.
Its a tough road to travel, but it doesnt kill you.
You'll look back in time and realise that you got through it.
You won't believe you did, but you will.
Thought I'd bring this thread to a conclusion.
My solicitor turned out to be a lot better than I thought!
To cut a long story short I'm now divorce, ended up with a decent share of the family assets and pay no spousal maintenance. My business is now my own again.
My wife ended up changing solicitors, she probably heard something she didn't like and fell out with them I imagine. The new firm persuaded her to mediate and we finally came to an agreement.
Thanks to everyone's advice and support on here, It's been a tough year but it's finally over.
I've just given notice on my flat (not spending another Christmas here) and I'm about to nip out to view a 3 bed cottage that I'm looking to rent
MrT
My solicitor turned out to be a lot better than I thought!
To cut a long story short I'm now divorce, ended up with a decent share of the family assets and pay no spousal maintenance. My business is now my own again.
My wife ended up changing solicitors, she probably heard something she didn't like and fell out with them I imagine. The new firm persuaded her to mediate and we finally came to an agreement.
Thanks to everyone's advice and support on here, It's been a tough year but it's finally over.
I've just given notice on my flat (not spending another Christmas here) and I'm about to nip out to view a 3 bed cottage that I'm looking to rent
MrT
MrTurtle said:
Thought I'd bring this thread to a conclusion.
My solicitor turned out to be a lot better than I thought!
To cut a long story short I'm now divorce, ended up with a decent share of the family assets and pay no spousal maintenance. My business is now my own again.
My wife ended up changing solicitors, she probably heard something she didn't like and fell out with them I imagine. The new firm persuaded her to mediate and we finally came to an agreement.
Thanks to everyone's advice and support on here, It's been a tough year but it's finally over.
I've just given notice on my flat (not spending another Christmas here) and I'm about to nip out to view a 3 bed cottage that I'm looking to rent
MrT
Hi mr turtle good to hear it was ok, out of curiosity was it a fair split in end I'm not married but do wonder why I hear the women gets everything ?My solicitor turned out to be a lot better than I thought!
To cut a long story short I'm now divorce, ended up with a decent share of the family assets and pay no spousal maintenance. My business is now my own again.
My wife ended up changing solicitors, she probably heard something she didn't like and fell out with them I imagine. The new firm persuaded her to mediate and we finally came to an agreement.
Thanks to everyone's advice and support on here, It's been a tough year but it's finally over.
I've just given notice on my flat (not spending another Christmas here) and I'm about to nip out to view a 3 bed cottage that I'm looking to rent
MrT
photosnob said:
1. Stop being silly about ending anything. i've never been divorced but have been pretty low. In my shortish life (not yet 30) I've gone from having a Porshe and a Range Rover at what point, to then being homeless and now being mediocre in every respect. You are going to be fine. It's just rubbish for a bit. Trust me.
2. It's a house. It's a business. Worst case scenario you will lose it. I lost a lot. I don't want to go into the details but you will get through it. It's only money.
3. Your wife will need a home for your kids. Stop thinking about the money and see the bigger picture. She is unlikely to get 100% of everything. It's all a negotiating game. She keeps the house, you keep the business.
4. If you think your solicitor is crap you are doing the right thing in getting a new one.
5. If I were you I'd down tools take some time off and sod off for a few months. The business will be there when you come back. You can go to the Doctors and get him/her to sign you off (trust me). Go somewhere cheap and work out who you are. It sounds hippyish but it will make you happier.
6. Don't give a stuff about being blacklisted. You have spent your whole life worrying about this stuff and it's done you no good. Your wife probably wants a decent credit rating as much as you do. If you can't pay her she will have to move to plan B.
Basically you are playing a game which is making you unhappy. Change the game and how you look at things. If I were you I'd seriously book a flight and go somewhere.
+1. 2. It's a house. It's a business. Worst case scenario you will lose it. I lost a lot. I don't want to go into the details but you will get through it. It's only money.
3. Your wife will need a home for your kids. Stop thinking about the money and see the bigger picture. She is unlikely to get 100% of everything. It's all a negotiating game. She keeps the house, you keep the business.
4. If you think your solicitor is crap you are doing the right thing in getting a new one.
5. If I were you I'd down tools take some time off and sod off for a few months. The business will be there when you come back. You can go to the Doctors and get him/her to sign you off (trust me). Go somewhere cheap and work out who you are. It sounds hippyish but it will make you happier.
6. Don't give a stuff about being blacklisted. You have spent your whole life worrying about this stuff and it's done you no good. Your wife probably wants a decent credit rating as much as you do. If you can't pay her she will have to move to plan B.
Basically you are playing a game which is making you unhappy. Change the game and how you look at things. If I were you I'd seriously book a flight and go somewhere.
All men believe that they overpay for their children on maintenance. Also, don't forget that the court would now expect the ex to get herself a job.....full time. The court will start off at 50-50 and then accumulate for the partner who is keeping the children (more often the mother). If you end up in court then take a copy of the house details to show what sort of house you lived in. If it is a substantial property with crunchy in and out drive then the court will not expect them to stay there and will rule them to move out to a property with a bedroom for each child. If, however, they are in an perfectly ordinary residence then you will need to accept that they will probably be awarded the house and you may need to pay towards the upkeep of it.
It can be difficult but living together with such animosity will be worse. Do the very best by the kids and leave it at that.
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