Sold a Car that has broken down HELP ASAP
Discussion
Fab32 said:
I'd like to think the OP could recognised his own car, unless of course the buyer switched the tyres, interior, clocks and anything else uniquely identifying! come on get real.
I'd also like to think the OP and RAC who recovered the car might notice a breather pipe or a engine mount.
OP is it possible that the car you viewed in KFC car park was a hologram and the knocking noise from the engine was merely the buyers pet woodpecker chipping away at his arse?
The guy above scarble has a job as a powertrain engineer and that what he comes up with.I'd also like to think the OP and RAC who recovered the car might notice a breather pipe or a engine mount.
OP is it possible that the car you viewed in KFC car park was a hologram and the knocking noise from the engine was merely the buyers pet woodpecker chipping away at his arse?
I think the buyers engineers report will say the following:
It is well known that the Honda S2000 engines all burn a lot of oil maybe a litre every 800 to 1000 milea.Honda say it should be checked every week,but people dont and knocks develpe as the bearing shells break up.
The buyer could argue that as the OP has admitted doing 3k miles in the month before selling the car and perhaps did not check the oil before he sold the car and according to Honda guidelines could have lost 3 litres or more oil from the 5.5 litre capacity so when he bought the car it only had 2.5 litres of oil or less in the engine.
The buyer drove the car as intended but as there was not enough oil in the engine the bearing shells broke up that caused the knocking noise the OP and buyer could hear.The buyer checks the dipstick no oil showing so drains the oil and only 2 litres in the car.What happens next.
btcc123 said:
The buyer drove the car as intended but as there was not enough oil in the engine the bearing shells broke up that caused the knocking noise the OP and buyer could hear.The buyer checks the dipstick no oil showing so drains the oil and only 2 litres in the car.What happens next.
I assume the S2000 has an oil warning light and I also assume the OP knew it was not lit when the car was driven away. So unless the buyer drained the oil or there was a drastic leak (which to be fair he might have bottomed it out at speed and knocked something causing a leak, no idea) then it should surely have enough oil to cope?!? It was definitely my car, I haven't responded to any of the allegations of a scam as I don't think that is what has happened at all. As most have said, were it a scam, it's a pretty crappy scam.
With regard to the engine oil I changed it only about 50 miles ago. This engine didn't use any engine oil, unlike other Hondas (I've had a few). I checked it religiously as I do with my DC2 and it never used a drop.
I think it's more extremely bad luck, of which it would need to be VERY bad luck for one of these engines to just fail out of the blue, or that it was over revved. It's easy to do driving a new car especially one with such a tight gearbox, one of my friends destroyed another's DC2 at the 'ring by mis-shifting as he was used to a VAG gearbox.
I haven't really thought what I will do when this engineering report lands, if it does. Obviously it is going to tell me that the car is fked, but the fact remains that after his inspection and test drive he was happy with the car and made the purchase.
I don't see where the case for misrepresentation lies, though I am not trained in law, and I know it doesn't always follow the rules of common sense.
I kind of wish I had made this thread from the buyers perspective, to see if the replies were different.
With regard to the engine oil I changed it only about 50 miles ago. This engine didn't use any engine oil, unlike other Hondas (I've had a few). I checked it religiously as I do with my DC2 and it never used a drop.
I think it's more extremely bad luck, of which it would need to be VERY bad luck for one of these engines to just fail out of the blue, or that it was over revved. It's easy to do driving a new car especially one with such a tight gearbox, one of my friends destroyed another's DC2 at the 'ring by mis-shifting as he was used to a VAG gearbox.
I haven't really thought what I will do when this engineering report lands, if it does. Obviously it is going to tell me that the car is fked, but the fact remains that after his inspection and test drive he was happy with the car and made the purchase.
I don't see where the case for misrepresentation lies, though I am not trained in law, and I know it doesn't always follow the rules of common sense.
I kind of wish I had made this thread from the buyers perspective, to see if the replies were different.
Edited by DanielJames on Monday 31st August 15:07
btcc123 said:
The buyer drove the car as intended but as there was not enough oil in the engine the bearing shells broke up that caused the knocking noise the OP and buyer could hear.The buyer checks the dipstick no oil showing so drains the oil and only 2 litres in the car.What happens next.
Nothing, he should have checked the oil himself as part of his pre purchase inspection.Anything could have happened in the period after purchase. If the same happened to you and the buyer said there was only 2 litres when he drained it, would you take his word for it? I know i wouldn't.
btcc123 said:
The guy above scarble has a job as a powertrain engineer and that what he comes up with.
I think the buyers engineers report will say the following:
It is well known that the Honda S2000 engines all burn a lot of oil maybe a litre every 800 to 1000 milea.Honda say it should be checked every week,but people dont and knocks develpe as the bearing shells break up.
The buyer could argue that as the OP has admitted doing 3k miles in the month before selling the car and perhaps did not check the oil before he sold the car and according to Honda guidelines could have lost 3 litres or more oil from the 5.5 litre capacity so when he bought the car it only had 2.5 litres of oil or less in the engine.
The buyer drove the car as intended but as there was not enough oil in the engine the bearing shells broke up that caused the knocking noise the OP and buyer could hear.The buyer checks the dipstick no oil showing so drains the oil and only 2 litres in the car.What happens next.
Well Mr Not Read Whole Thread, he has stated he changed the oil when he got back from his trip & the car has done no miles since, so your scenario cannot happen.I think the buyers engineers report will say the following:
It is well known that the Honda S2000 engines all burn a lot of oil maybe a litre every 800 to 1000 milea.Honda say it should be checked every week,but people dont and knocks develpe as the bearing shells break up.
The buyer could argue that as the OP has admitted doing 3k miles in the month before selling the car and perhaps did not check the oil before he sold the car and according to Honda guidelines could have lost 3 litres or more oil from the 5.5 litre capacity so when he bought the car it only had 2.5 litres of oil or less in the engine.
The buyer drove the car as intended but as there was not enough oil in the engine the bearing shells broke up that caused the knocking noise the OP and buyer could hear.The buyer checks the dipstick no oil showing so drains the oil and only 2 litres in the car.What happens next.
Edited because I typed my post before seeing that the OP had confirmed the oil change.
Edited by Speedracer329 on Monday 31st August 14:33
Fab32 said:
.
The issue here really appears to be his behaviour, the hand shaking to e-mail threats of legal action the same night, which is very odd.
Perfectly normal behaviour I would have thought. The issue here really appears to be his behaviour, the hand shaking to e-mail threats of legal action the same night, which is very odd.
Whilst sat for hours in the KFC car park awaiting recovery of his newly purchased car that has gone bang just after buying it, he's availing himself of KFC's free wifi and asking on some dodgy car forum what his options are. Clearly he's been advised to get in there with the scary email, making sure to use the phrase 'without prejudice' at least once so it makes it look as if he knows what he's talking about.
btcc123 said:
The guy above scarble has a job as a powertrain engineer and that what he comes up with.
Admittedly the car switch idea is a bit out there, but not impossible, just very highly improbable (consider EVERY possibility, it's an engineer thing, we call it FTA or something?)
If you'd read the ad you'd know DJ changed the oil when he got back from Munich and doesn't use the car much because "There's also 3/4s worth of fuel that I forgot was in there" so it's likely not done many miles since that change, as DJ has confirmed.
Edited by scarble on Monday 31st August 15:06
eccles said:
Fab32 said:
.
The issue here really appears to be his behaviour, the hand shaking to e-mail threats of legal action the same night, which is very odd.
Perfectly normal behaviour I would have thought. The issue here really appears to be his behaviour, the hand shaking to e-mail threats of legal action the same night, which is very odd.
Whilst sat for hours in the KFC car park awaiting recovery of his newly purchased car that has gone bang just after buying it, he's availing himself of KFC's free wifi and asking on some dodgy car forum what his options are. Clearly he's been advised to get in there with the scary email, making sure to use the phrase 'without prejudice' at least once so it makes it look as if he knows what he's talking about.
In this case the seller has shown genuine concern driven to meet the stranded buyer, I think he said it was over an hour away, presumably to see if it is a minor issue and then stayed with him until he is recovered and offered a partial refund as a gesture of good will.
If the seller had ignored the buyer or just said unlucky then you could understand the threats.
Fab32 said:
eccles said:
Fab32 said:
.
The issue here really appears to be his behaviour, the hand shaking to e-mail threats of legal action the same night, which is very odd.
Perfectly normal behaviour I would have thought. The issue here really appears to be his behaviour, the hand shaking to e-mail threats of legal action the same night, which is very odd.
Whilst sat for hours in the KFC car park awaiting recovery of his newly purchased car that has gone bang just after buying it, he's availing himself of KFC's free wifi and asking on some dodgy car forum what his options are. Clearly he's been advised to get in there with the scary email, making sure to use the phrase 'without prejudice' at least once so it makes it look as if he knows what he's talking about.
In this case the seller has shown genuine concern driven to meet the stranded buyer, I think he said it was over an hour away, presumably to see if it is a minor issue and then stayed with him until he is recovered and offered a partial refund as a gesture of good will.
If the seller had ignored the buyer or just said unlucky then you could understand the threats.
DanielJames said:
It was definitely my car, I haven't responded to any of the allegations of a scam as I don't think that is what has happened at all. As most have said, were it a scam, it's a pretty crappy scam.
With regard to the engine oil I changed it only about 500 miles ago. This engine didn't use any engine oil, unlike other Hondas (I've had a few). I checked it religiously as I do with my DC2 and it never used a drop.
I think it's more extremely bad luck, of which it would need to be VERY bad luck for one of these engines to just fail out of the blue, or that it was over revved. It's easy to do driving a new car especially one with such a tight gearbox, one of my friends destroyed another's DC2 at the 'ring by mis-shifting as he was used to a VAG gearbox.
I haven't really thought what I will do when this engineering report lands, if it does. Obviously it is going to tell me that the car is fked, but the fact remains that after his inspection and test drive he was happy with the car and made the purchase.
I don't see where the case for misrepresentation lies, though I am not trained in law, and I know it doesn't always follow the rules of common sense.
I kind of wish I had made this thread from the buyers perspective, to see if the replies were different.
I think if it was me at this point I'd wait to see what he comes up with and then send a final letter, offering the £250 as a gesture of good will but add that he continues to state you have acted dishonestly it will be withdrawn and you will cease any further communication with him.With regard to the engine oil I changed it only about 500 miles ago. This engine didn't use any engine oil, unlike other Hondas (I've had a few). I checked it religiously as I do with my DC2 and it never used a drop.
I think it's more extremely bad luck, of which it would need to be VERY bad luck for one of these engines to just fail out of the blue, or that it was over revved. It's easy to do driving a new car especially one with such a tight gearbox, one of my friends destroyed another's DC2 at the 'ring by mis-shifting as he was used to a VAG gearbox.
I haven't really thought what I will do when this engineering report lands, if it does. Obviously it is going to tell me that the car is fked, but the fact remains that after his inspection and test drive he was happy with the car and made the purchase.
I don't see where the case for misrepresentation lies, though I am not trained in law, and I know it doesn't always follow the rules of common sense.
I kind of wish I had made this thread from the buyers perspective, to see if the replies were different.
If it ever gets anywhere near court surely you can say;
Here is the original advert
I believed the car was as described in the advert
The buyer inspected the car before purchasing
The buyer test drove the car before purchasing
I am very sorry this happened but I believe it's his problem not mine
OP, the law more often applies common sense than is generally supposed. To summarise broadly, you would be liable for misrepresentation if you deliberately or carelessly made a false statement about the state of the car when sold. An allegation of fraudulent (deliberate) misrepresentation is hard to prove, as the allegation involves proof of a state of mind. This can be inferred from circumstances, but the party alleging fraud has a steep hill to climb.
btcc123 said:
scarble said:
btcc123 said:
The guy above scarble has a job as a powertrain engineer and that what he comes up with.
Admittedly the car switch idea is a bit out there, but not impossible, just very highly improbable (consider EVERY possibility, it's an engineer thing, we call it FTA or something?)
If you'd read the ad you'd know DJ changed the oil when he got back from Munich and doesn't use the car much because "There's also 3/4s worth of fuel that I forgot was in there" so it's likely not done many miles since that change, as DJ has confirmed.
Edited by scarble on Monday 31st August 15:06
Before going to Munich I did some preventative maintenance:
Engine Oil & Filter Change (Fuchs 5w-40 Fully Synthetic)
Then he did 3k miles in the next month and then sold his car.
Kinky said:
The OP has been around PH long enough to see similar threads of the same nature over the past few years and the eventual outcomes, considering the same threats from the buyers.
'nuff said.
Indeed, but when it happens to you, it is a shock.'nuff said.
I'm glad so many have taken the time to respond, even if they are repeating themselves.
Thanks chaps.
DanielJames said:
Kinky said:
The OP has been around PH long enough to see similar threads of the same nature over the past few years and the eventual outcomes, considering the same threats from the buyers.
'nuff said.
Indeed, but when it happens to you, it is a shock.'nuff said.
I'm glad so many have taken the time to respond, even if they are repeating themselves.
Thanks chaps.
And the temptation (as a decent and respectable chappie) is to do as you've done. But the reality is that you've no real exposure, if everything is as it is.
Good luck with it, but don't engage in further communications with the person. And do keep us up to date on what happens. If anything, it will be helpful/useful for the next person this same thing happens to
eccles said:
Perfectly normal behaviour I would have thought.
Whilst sat for hours in the KFC car park awaiting recovery of his newly purchased car that has gone bang just after buying it, he's availing himself of KFC's free wifi and asking on some dodgy car forum what his options are. Clearly he's been advised to get in there with the scary email, making sure to use the phrase 'without prejudice' at least once so it makes it look as if he knows what he's talking about.
Sounds more than plausible, in which case I'd suggest a response along the following lines. Perhaps BV could help fine tune it?Whilst sat for hours in the KFC car park awaiting recovery of his newly purchased car that has gone bang just after buying it, he's availing himself of KFC's free wifi and asking on some dodgy car forum what his options are. Clearly he's been advised to get in there with the scary email, making sure to use the phrase 'without prejudice' at least once so it makes it look as if he knows what he's talking about.
Google Lawyer said:
Without prejudice
Dear Mr <insert name here>,
Re: Purchase of vehicle xx yy zz under private contract of sale, dated xx yyy 2015 AD, governed by the Sale of Goods Act 1979 [1979 c.54] (as amended) and the common law principle of Caveat Emptor
Further to our correspondence to date: whilst I have every sympathy for your situation, I maintain that the condition of the vehicle, at the time of purchase, was in accordance with the descriptions provided by me, in both the written advertisement and subsequent oral discussion, and that the price agreed and paid was commensurate with that condition. That being the case, I hereby deny and repudiate all and any claims by you for rescission of the contract and also for compensation for any subsequent and incidental losses that you may accrue.
Notwithstanding the above, and without prejudice nor admission of liability, I have previously offered to make a voluntary donation of two hundred and fifty pounds, Sterling, (£250.00) as a contribution towards your recovery costs. I am prepared to stand by that offer for a period of seven (7) days from receipt by you of this letter which, in accordance with s. 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 [1978 c.30], shall be deemed to take place one (1) working day after it is posted, being the normal delivery time for first class letter post. I shall additionally allow a further two (2) days for you to write and deliver your response should you wish to reply by post. Beyond that time limit my offer of assistance shall be withdrawn and I shall consider the matter closed. Should you decide to take any further action I shall defend my position to the full extent of the law.
I must further advise you that, aside and apart from acceptance of my offer or the issuance of court papers, I shall consider any further attempt by you to contact me, about this or any other matter, to be harassment as defined by s.7(1)(2) of The Protection from Harassment Act 1997 [1997 c.40] in that it is causing me alarm and distress.
Such harassment shall not be tolerated and will be reported for consideration of prosecution for the offence of harassment under s.2 of the same Act, as well as forming the basis for civil action under s.3 including, but not limited to, damages for the anxiety so caused to me.
I look forward to hearing from you and trust that this matter can now be put behind us.
Yours sincerely,
Another Google User.
eta: For the avoidance of doubt (following BV's genuinely useful post): OP, please, whatever you do, do NOT use this letter Dear Mr <insert name here>,
Re: Purchase of vehicle xx yy zz under private contract of sale, dated xx yyy 2015 AD, governed by the Sale of Goods Act 1979 [1979 c.54] (as amended) and the common law principle of Caveat Emptor
Further to our correspondence to date: whilst I have every sympathy for your situation, I maintain that the condition of the vehicle, at the time of purchase, was in accordance with the descriptions provided by me, in both the written advertisement and subsequent oral discussion, and that the price agreed and paid was commensurate with that condition. That being the case, I hereby deny and repudiate all and any claims by you for rescission of the contract and also for compensation for any subsequent and incidental losses that you may accrue.
Notwithstanding the above, and without prejudice nor admission of liability, I have previously offered to make a voluntary donation of two hundred and fifty pounds, Sterling, (£250.00) as a contribution towards your recovery costs. I am prepared to stand by that offer for a period of seven (7) days from receipt by you of this letter which, in accordance with s. 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 [1978 c.30], shall be deemed to take place one (1) working day after it is posted, being the normal delivery time for first class letter post. I shall additionally allow a further two (2) days for you to write and deliver your response should you wish to reply by post. Beyond that time limit my offer of assistance shall be withdrawn and I shall consider the matter closed. Should you decide to take any further action I shall defend my position to the full extent of the law.
I must further advise you that, aside and apart from acceptance of my offer or the issuance of court papers, I shall consider any further attempt by you to contact me, about this or any other matter, to be harassment as defined by s.7(1)(2) of The Protection from Harassment Act 1997 [1997 c.40] in that it is causing me alarm and distress.
Such harassment shall not be tolerated and will be reported for consideration of prosecution for the offence of harassment under s.2 of the same Act, as well as forming the basis for civil action under s.3 including, but not limited to, damages for the anxiety so caused to me.
I look forward to hearing from you and trust that this matter can now be put behind us.
Yours sincerely,
Another Google User.
Edited by Variomatic on Monday 31st August 17:28
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