DVLA legal action advice.
Discussion
Vaud said:
Inept? Inefficient? Yup, probably.
Corrupt? "having or showing a willingness to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain"
No, disagree. No personal gain. No intent to deceive. No dishonesty.
They managed to lose the V5C new owner form I sent them. That's ineptitude.Corrupt? "having or showing a willingness to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain"
No, disagree. No personal gain. No intent to deceive. No dishonesty.
They then fined me for their failings. OK, so perhaps not corrupt, but it's certainly unscrupulous.
V8LM said:
jimmybobby said:
I sent plate transfer paperwork at the same time as change of ownership which I was advised by a member of staff was acceptable.
Staff of the DVLA?Transfer of reg and transfer of RK can't be done simultaneously - what reg is listed on the V5C that you signed? Who was named as the RK on the transfer document?
You can transfer reg online and is instant, the new V5 arrives a little time (days*) later.
- usually
Edited by V8LM on Thursday 3rd September 07:05
REALIST123 said:
jimmybobby said:
Roo said:
jimmybobby said:
Sadly I could not stall on the sale. I needed it gone before its MOT ran out.
Of course you could. It doesn't take long to do a retention. I was also advised I did not need to ask the buyer to wait as I could send both documents at the same time and the plate would be retained and the new owner issued a new V5 with a new plate. I now know this not to be the case.
Welcome to the DVLA. Inept and corrupt.
I am surprised that anyone, these days, would not know that it's by far the safest way to complete retention of a number before selling a car. It's been that way for years.
If the car was up for sale why not put the number on retention as soon as it was up for sale? It doesn't sound like you decided to sell and sold it that same day or even week?
No, in this case, you got what you deserved. Take responsibility for your own mistake.
As for thinking an eBay auction valuation is remotely accurate........that's your second mistake.
As for corrupt yes as far as I am concerned they are. Their argument that the car was not taxed from the moment I handed it over to the new keeper is absolutely flawed. 1 Until I send them documents stating I have sold it to someone they consider it to still be taxed as they are unware it has a new owner so if I fail to send them the change of notification docs they will continue to take payments from my account and will consider it taxed.
2 If i notify them I sold it on say the 15th of a month they will not refund the days it is no longer my car ergo they are keeping money to which they are not entitled or they are stating the car is taxed to the end of that month. As far as I am concerned their position is contradictory.
Edited by jimmybobby on Thursday 3rd September 17:16
Vaud said:
Inept? Inefficient? Yup, probably.
Corrupt? "having or showing a willingness to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain"
No, disagree. No personal gain. No intent to deceive. No dishonesty.
There is a gain in that they retain a sum of money to which they are not or should not be entitled as they are not providing anything for said sum of money if you sell the car midway through a month.Corrupt? "having or showing a willingness to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain"
No, disagree. No personal gain. No intent to deceive. No dishonesty.
paintman said:
You had the reg for sale on ebay.
For some reason it didn't actually sell.
What was the reason?
I put it on fleabay to get a more realistic value of the plate than the one I was getting from the websites but valued it a lot higher than I felt it would go as was unsure if I wanted to sell it.For some reason it didn't actually sell.
What was the reason?
jimmybobby said:
There is a gain in that they retain a sum of money to which they are not or should not be entitled as they are not providing anything for said sum of money if you sell the car midway through a month.
However, if that is enshrined in legislation then they are not, by definition, operating illegally?Vaud said:
jimmybobby said:
There is a gain in that they retain a sum of money to which they are not or should not be entitled as they are not providing anything for said sum of money if you sell the car midway through a month.
However, if that is enshrined in legislation then they are not, by definition, operating illegally?Vaud said:
jimmybobby said:
There is a gain in that they retain a sum of money to which they are not or should not be entitled as they are not providing anything for said sum of money if you sell the car midway through a month.
However, if that is enshrined in legislation then they are not, by definition, operating illegally?swerni said:
jimmybobby said:
Vaud said:
jimmybobby said:
There is a gain in that they retain a sum of money to which they are not or should not be entitled as they are not providing anything for said sum of money if you sell the car midway through a month.
However, if that is enshrined in legislation then they are not, by definition, operating illegally?"You must not sell or get rid of your vehicle until you receive a new registration certificate, as the new keeper will be entitled to keep the registration number if they want to."
If you can't follow simple instructions......
I spoke with the department that deals with private registrations to clarify this BEFORE sending the documents and it is THEM who told me I could send BOTH the change of keeper and registration plate retention paperwork at the same time. If they had said "No you need to send in retention docs first as car will be classed as untaxed from date on new keeper supplement then change of keeper" then amazingly I would not have sent both docs at the same time.THE DVLA registrations division is now claiming that the car was untaxed as from the date on the new keeper supplement so they could not allow me to retain the plate. Also bear in mind your cut and paste above makes no mention about road tax although I am sure you will dig up a statement about not being able to retain a plate on an untaxed car and so on.
Also interestingly just checked my accounts.
I sent the docs on the 3/4 of August and on the 3rd of August the DVLA debited my account for £20 or whatever it is for road tax and have not refunded it.
As such car tax was paid for full month in July and August yet they are claiming car was untaxed from date of sale which was about the 17th or so of July which is why they could not retain the plate. The fact they debited my account on 3rd of August means they considered the car taxed till the end of August.
swerni said:
jimmybobby said:
swerni said:
jimmybobby said:
Vaud said:
jimmybobby said:
There is a gain in that they retain a sum of money to which they are not or should not be entitled as they are not providing anything for said sum of money if you sell the car midway through a month.
However, if that is enshrined in legislation then they are not, by definition, operating illegally?"You must not sell or get rid of your vehicle until you receive a new registration certificate, as the new keeper will be entitled to keep the registration number if they want to."
If you can't follow simple instructions......
I spoke with the department that deals with private registrations to clarify this BEFORE sending the documents and it is THEM who told me I could send BOTH the change of keeper and registration plate retention paperwork at the same time. If they had said "No you need to send in retention docs first as car will be classed as untaxed from date on new keeper supplement then change of keeper" then amazingly I would not have sent both docs at the same time.THE DVLA registrations division is now claiming that the car was untaxed as from the date on the new keeper supplement so they could not allow me to retain the plate. Also bear in mind your cut and paste above makes no mention about road tax although I am sure you will dig up a statement about not being able to retain a plate on an untaxed car and so on.
Also interestingly just checked my accounts.
I sent the docs on the 3/4 of August and on the 3rd of August the DVLA debited my account for £20 or whatever it is for road tax and have not refunded it.
As such car tax was paid for full month in July and August yet they are claiming car was untaxed from date of sale which was about the 17th or so of July which is why they could not retain the plate. The fact they debited my account on 3rd of August means they considered the car taxed till the end of August.
You also can't transfer tax.
Therefore the car ceases to be taxed on the day YOU put on the form as being sold.
You can also only get tax back based on full months ( rightly or wrongly so, it's the way its)
Why is all that so difficult to comprehend?
The DVLA REGISTRATIONS DEPARTMENT TOLD ME ON THE PHONE I could SEND ALL DOCUMENTS TOGETHER.I did not read instructions. I ASKED THE PEOPLE WHO DO THE PROCESSING OF THE DOCUMENTATION THEMSELVES. I did as I was advised by the very people who process the paperwork and they have now turned around and told me they were wrong. How f
king hard is it to comprehend that detail.Shaw Tarse said:
If you were selling your 'plate why hadn't you put it on retention?
Not only that, he was also selling the car.You've had offers on the plate above the valuations by reg plate companies but still didn't put the reg on retention. You didn't read the bit about retaining the plate first and sent both sets of paperwork to one address when they're dealt with by different departments.
jimmybobby said:
Oh FFS Swerni are you being deliberately stupid.
The DVLA REGISTRATIONS DEPARTMENT TOLD ME ON THE PHONE I could SEND ALL DOCUMENTS TOGETHER.I did not read instructions. I ASKED THE PEOPLE WHO DO THE PROCESSING OF THE DOCUMENTATION THEMSELVES. I did as I was advised by the very people who process the paperwork and they have now turned around and told me they were wrong. How fking hard is it to comprehend that detail.
No he isn't. You chose to believe what a fallible human being at the DVLA told you verbally over and above what is clearly stated in writing on the government website and in Section C of the Guidance notes of the paper based form V317.The DVLA REGISTRATIONS DEPARTMENT TOLD ME ON THE PHONE I could SEND ALL DOCUMENTS TOGETHER.I did not read instructions. I ASKED THE PEOPLE WHO DO THE PROCESSING OF THE DOCUMENTATION THEMSELVES. I did as I was advised by the very people who process the paperwork and they have now turned around and told me they were wrong. How f
king hard is it to comprehend that detail.Did you get as far as actually reading them? - https://www.gov.uk/put-registration-number-vehicle
People make mistakes. It's not the first time a DVLA employee has screwed up and it certainly won't be the last. When such contradictory information is provided the sensible thing to do is query it with the person giving it. If they still maintain they are correct ask them to confirm it in writing.
As I have already explained a cherished plate retention/transfer is dealt with by a different section/department from a straightforward transfer of RK. So when you speak of DVLA REGISTRATIONS DEPARTMENT, in which part of Swansea Towers does the person you spoke to work in?
jimmybobby said:
The DVLA REGISTRATIONS DEPARTMENT TOLD ME ON THE PHONE I could SEND ALL DOCUMENTS TOGETHER. I did not read instructions.
Anybody else would have decided it was a heck of a lot easier, as well as a heck of a lot more likely to get an authoritative and correct answer, to read the published documentation than fight half an hour or more of the seven circles of phone menu and hold music hell...jimmybobby said:
I ASKED THE PEOPLE WHO DO THE PROCESSING OF THE DOCUMENTATION THEMSELVES.
No, you didn't. You asked the customer service phone team who answered on a specific number and/or menu option. And, even then, going by your performance in this thread, you heard what you wanted to hear.Roo said:
Not only that, he was also selling the car.
You've had offers on the plate above the valuations by reg plate companies but still didn't put the reg on retention. You didn't read the bit about retaining the plate first and sent both sets of paperwork to one address when they're dealt with by different departments.
No i had offers below valuations by registration companies which was fine in principle as i was unsure whether i wanted to sell the plate. I did not put it on retention as i didn't feel the need to do so as i hadn't decided whether to keep it.You've had offers on the plate above the valuations by reg plate companies but still didn't put the reg on retention. You didn't read the bit about retaining the plate first and sent both sets of paperwork to one address when they're dealt with by different departments.
I had a look online to see if i could send both docs at the same time and all i found was comments from people saying you could do. I decided that wasn't good enough so called the DVLA to ask if it was possible to send both at once. The simple reality is i did not have time to waste trying to go through all the DVLA website garbage to find out if i could send both docs at once hence my calling the dvla which i could do while driving to a customer
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