Drink / Drive Position - Motorhome in Pub Car Park

[TooMany2cvs]

jith said:

Read the link I posted earlier; READ IT!!!

What, this one?

jith said:

Read this and weep :- http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

My take on the situation is still the same; it's an absolutely dreadful law wide open to abuse.

In other words, be very careful.

J

You might like to be a bit more explicit about which bit of that thread you mean, because I can't see any of it that really supports your position here.

Do you mean Black Duke's friend who was nicked asleep in the back of a loaded van with the engine running?
Or bunnysquasher's friend who got nicked whilst getting some CDs from a car whilst at a party (sat in the driver's seat and turned the ignition on to get a CD out of the player, by any chance?)
Or Jules360's mate kipping in a car in a pub carpark who would probably still have been over the limit in the morning when he drove home?

Oh, no, you probably mean your incident in Glencoe where nobody even got a warning, let alone charged, never mind prosecuted... So was that actually in a campsite? Or just wild camped somewhere? If it was in a campsite, what did the campsite management have to say about the Police coming in to the site?

jith said:

This happens constantly in campsites in the north of Scotland

You've told us of once it nearly happened, but didn't. I presume, since it's so "constant", that you can link to one - go on, just one - press report of such a case coming to court and being found guilty?

[gruffalo]

LoonR1 said:

gruffalo said:

Did it for many years in my youth when I went to a pub in the middle of no where and slept in the car, plod did come knocking and asked me where the keys were and why I was sleeping in the car, explained they checked over the car didn't find any keys and wished me a good night.

They did this a couple of times and then they just left me alone.

The landlady did a cracking breakfast:-)

A car isn't a motorhome though. They're probably right, if a little petty, to ask you in a car, but not in a motorhome.

I agree they were just checking all was OK with a lone car parked in a really rural pub car park, they checked the doors were locked before me sitting up, I was stretched out in the boot on an airbed.

[guindilias]

The Spruce goose said:

Give examples as I think it is rubbish.

Edited by The Spruce goose on Friday 4th September 12:56

Bug Jam - for the last 5 years in a row. Good enough?

[anonymous-user]

guindilias said:

Bug Jam - for the last 5 years in a row. Good enough?

Not really means nothing, please provide a link to the news story or court information of someone arrested whilst sleeping in a motorhome, not the next day(morning after).

[guindilias]

Err I was in the camper when the police knocked, the keys were in a mate's camper next to us, and both campers were locked up - that's how nobody got busted!

[anonymous-user]

guindilias said:

Err I was in the camper when the police knocked, the keys were in a mate's camper next to us, and both campers were locked up - that's how nobody got busted!

as much as you could be telling the truth there is nothing on google at all about this which i would be suprised for such a likely story.

[guindilias]

1. DPP v Watkins[1989] QB 821, [1989] 1 All ER 1126, [1989] RTR 324.
2. Haines v Roberts[1953] 1 All ER 344, [1953] 1 WLR 309.
3. Woodage v Jones (No 2)[1975] RTR 119.
4. DPP v Watkins above; DPP v Webb[1988] RTR 374.
5. [2004] EWHC 2811 (Admin), [2004] All ER (D) 333 (Nov).

All from a 30 second Google search.

[LoonR1]

guindilias]1. DPP v Watkins[1989 said:

QB 821, [1989] 1 All ER 1126, [1989] RTR 324.
2. Haines v Roberts[1953] 1 All ER 344, [1953] 1 WLR 309.
3. Woodage v Jones (No 2)[1975] RTR 119.
4. DPP v Watkins above; DPP v Webb[1988] RTR 374.
5. [2004] EWHC 2811 (Admin), [2004] All ER (D) 333 (Nov).

All from a 30 second Google search.

Wow and all so recent as well

Were they all motorhomes?

Edited by LoonR1 on Friday 4th September 15:38

[Devil2575]

ging84 said:

Steviesam said:

This country is completely fked up.

To even have to worry about this when they are trying to do the right thing is mental.

I would like to say he will be fine, but there have been stories where that is not the case-police just have no common sense and do their own thing depending what mood they are in.

I agree, this country has a strange fascination with making it almost completely impossible for anyone to wriggle out of a motoring conviction, often at the expense of the rights of millions of innocent motorists.

I think you are both well wide of the mark. People worry about all sorts of st, that doesn't mean it's likely to happen. Hundreds if not thousands of people clear off for the weekend in camper vans on a regular basis and don't worry at all about having a beer or two before bedding down in the back of the van.

I frequently drive to the pub and get a taxi home so I am technically in charge of a vehicle and indeed have the keys in my pocket why i'm in the pub and this has never crossed my mind once.

Just because people get worked up about stuff doesn't mean a thing.

[guindilias]

LoonR1 said:

Wow and all so recent as well

Were they all motorhomes?

Edited by LoonR1 on Friday 4th September 15:38

No idea, I just copied and pasted from the five-o forum!

[LoonR1]

guindilias said:

LoonR1 said:

Wow and all so recent as well

Were they all motorhomes?

Edited by LoonR1 on Friday 4th September 15:38

No idea, I just copied and pasted from the five-o forum!

Here's a copy amd paste from a legal forum that references those 5 cases. The last sentence is the key piece for me. I was asleep in my motorhome / I was in the back of my motorhome parked up on a campsite that I was booked into overnight / I was on a pub car park in the back of my motorhome asleep / preparing for bed etc are all totally valid defences.

Nobody gets bothered in their camper vans. We have a huge contingent on our bike race weekends where the partying goes on until the early hours quite often. Nobody has ever seen a single cop turn up to these, let alone nick all of us in camper vans / motorhomes.

Sheldrake v DPP [2003] EWHC 273 (Admin)
In Director of Public Prosecutions v Watkins [1989] QB 821, 829, Taylor LJ said, with reference to section 5 of the 1972 Act (the equivalent of section 4 of the 1988 Act):
"In regard to that section two broad propositions are clear. First, the offence of being 'in charge' is the lowest in the scale of three charges relating to driving and drink. The two higher in the scale are driving and attempting to drive. Therefore a defendant can be 'in charge' although neither driving nor attempting to drive. Clearly however the mischief aimed at is to prevent driving when unfit through drink. The offence of being 'in charge' must therefore be intended to convict those who are not driving and have not yet done more than a preparatory act towards driving, but who in all the circumstances have already formed or may yet form the intention to drive the vehicle, and may try to drive it whilst still unfit."

Sheldrake v. Director of Public Prosecutions [2004] UKHL 43 (14 October 2004)

[guindilias]

Bug Jam has it's own temporary police portakabin on site - they don't need to "turn up", they are already there.

[LoonR1]

guindilias said:

Bug Jam has it's own temporary police portakabin on site - they don't need to "turn up", they are already there.

How many people were charged? Where are the court cases? Must be hundreds of them to link to. Seriously, if it's rife, then where are the details?

[IN51GHT]

From my experience and investigation with our camper van it stands as follows.

If the bed on the camper is made up in the back & we are not in the front (therefore unable to drive), we are OK to have some bevvies, not sure what the standing is on a motorhome, think any judge in the land would be daft to prosecute or DIC if the alleged drink driver is tucked up in bed in the motorhome.

[mattmurdock]

LoonR1 said:

guindilias]1. DPP v Watkins[1989 said:

QB 821, [1989] 1 All ER 1126, [1989] RTR 324.
2. Haines v Roberts[1953] 1 All ER 344, [1953] 1 WLR 309.
3. Woodage v Jones (No 2)[1975] RTR 119.
4. DPP v Watkins above; DPP v Webb[1988] RTR 374.
5. [2004] EWHC 2811 (Admin), [2004] All ER (D) 333 (Nov).

All from a 30 second Google search.

Wow and all so recent as well

That last one involves a drunk bloke getting into his Ford Focus in a pub car park - classic festival camping activity, that.

[Cat]

jith said:

This happens constantly in campsites in the north of Scotland

No it doesn't.

jith said:

it's an easy target

Clearly it's an easy target, that's why the police in the north of Scotland do things like this when they could just charge people for being DiC or DD. Utterly ludicrous

Cat

[TooMany2cvs]

mattmurdock said:

That last one involves a drunk bloke getting into his Ford Focus in a pub car park - classic festival camping activity, that.

...and that's the only one from the last 25 years...

http://high-court-justice.vlex.co.uk/vid/-52634202
Seen to walk out of a pub, stumbling, and get into the driver's seat of his car - parked on the road - with his keys in his hand...

One of 'em is 62 years ago, ffs.

[anonymous-user]

The thing is you go on these forums and it is the same story.

A mate of mate got done for drink driving after he lent on a car to tie his shoe laces... et al

[LoonR1]

TooMany2cvs said:

mattmurdock said:

That last one involves a drunk bloke getting into his Ford Focus in a pub car park - classic festival camping activity, that.

...and that's the only one from the last 25 years...

http://high-court-justice.vlex.co.uk/vid/-52634202
Seen to walk out of a pub, stumbling, and get into the driver's seat of his car - parked on the road - with his keys in his hand...

One of 'em is 62 years ago, ffs.

That's as my point. It really is incredible how paranoid people are. We're just missing Fred Flintstone getting done for it leaving the Bedrock Summer Festival and we've got a full set.

[jith]

Cat said:

jith said:

This happens constantly in campsites in the north of Scotland

No it doesn't.

jith said:

it's an easy target

Clearly it's an easy target, that's why the police in the north of Scotland do things like this when they could just charge people for being DiC or DD. Utterly ludicrous

Cat

Yes it does; frequently in Glencoe. And I'm not going to waste any further time arguing with you in particular. You are an intensely irritating pedant who seems to delight in contradiction for the sake of it.

I have climbed in Glencoe for over 40 years and have personally witnessed some bloody minded stupidity from traffic police in the Glen and the campsites.

If you want to contradict that you will have to call me a liar, and quite frankly I really don't care what you think.

J