Police response vehicles without Sirens, non response with

[paintman]

When I joined in 1979 most weren't fitted with sirens/two-tones. You couldn't drive any police vehicle - liveried or not - without having been through the in-force driving school & got the appropriate piece of paper. I'd been driving for some years prior to joining & it was a bit of an eye opener & I realised just how bad I'd actually got.
Blue lights on pandas/vans (Escorts/Transits) were only supposed to be on at the scene of road traffic collisions.
Liveried response vehicles were fitted with sirens & blue lights (ours were called 'area cars' & were Mk3 & 4 Cortinas) and traffic cars could only be driven by those who had passed the relevant courses.
As has been mentioned earlier, going to reports of burglaries in progress was done without use of sirens - usually advised at time as 'silent approach' - & blue light would be turned off when close esp at night. Consequently by the time the burglar realised we were there it was too late
Drive sensibly & you don't need to use them.
As things changed over the years & you only had to have a full driving licence to be given an authority to drive the smaller vehicles there was a marked increase in the number of police vehicle RTCs. Came as no surprise to most of us.

Edited by paintman on Saturday 5th September 13:41

[Pontoneer]

un1corn said:

Whether it's used for response work or not, if it's liveried with blues, it should have sirens.

In the Fire Service we have a lot of liveried vehicles with blue lights but no sirens : they aren't used for response work but are used for attending RTC's and therefore fitted with blues in case they need to be parked on a carriageway ; also used for recognition when entering cordons .

[HantsRat]

red_slr said:

Because its wrong. IMHO of course.

I would even go so far as to ask for radio logs to see if they have been listening to the car set, because you can bet your @ss they have acquired the pin number for it.

Why does it matter if they do? Everyone working for the police is vetted and signs the Official secrets act amount other things. PCSOs, Front office staff, IT, Vehicle technicians, Camera operators all have radios and can listen in. Trust me, listening to the police radio is extremely boring.

[Greendubber]

paintman said:

When I joined in 1979 most weren't fitted with sirens/two-tones. You couldn't drive any police vehicle - liveried or not - without having been through the in-force driving school & got the appropriate piece of paper. I'd been driving for some years prior to joining & it was a bit of an eye opener & I realised just how bad I'd actually got.
Blue lights on pandas/vans (Escorts/Transits) were only supposed to be on at the scene of road traffic collisions.
Liveried response vehicles were fitted with sirens & blue lights (ours were called 'area cars' & were Mk3 & 4 Cortinas) and traffic cars could only be driven by those who had passed the relevant courses.
As has been mentioned earlier, going to reports of burglaries in progress was done without use of sirens - usually advised at time as 'silent approach' - & blue light would be turned off when close esp at night. Consequently by the time the burglar realised we were there it was too late
Drive sensibly & you don't need to use them.
As things changed over the years & you only had to have a full driving licence to be given an authority to drive the smaller vehicles there was a marked increase in the number of police vehicle RTCs. Came as no surprise to most of us.

Edited by paintman on Saturday 5th September 13:41

To drive a vehicle in my force you must complete a driving examination before you can get behind the wheel of anything. Then after that its standard and advance grades etc.

Bobbies use sirens now because they dont want to end up in the st off the back of a polac. An officer I know was sadly involved in a fatal polac, he had his tones on but it would have been a very different outcome for him had he been on a silent approach. I wont risk my liberty and career to catch someone coming out of a window.

[Earthdweller]

My force is estimating that officer numbers will have dropped 50% by 2017 from 2010

It is creaking and on the very edge of breaking

Contrary to popular belief crime isn't down and neither is demand at all

We are increasingly relying on specials and pcso's to go to jobs as there are no regular bobbies to go

We are quite lucky at my nick that we have enough liveried vehicles and all have sirens .. Plain cars though are like rocking horse poo ... But then most of the fleet reduction has been targeted deliberately on plain cars

We are awaiting the budget figures in November to see just how bad it will get

It may well be that next year we wil have very few or no pcso's at all and massive culling of other civilian posts leaving just sworn officers

Staff and officers are leaving in droves of their own accord for example one of my friends left last week to retrain as a carpenter.

For example two weekends ago I was on lates at 5pm response paraded on 10 Pc's to cover the division .. Their minimum strength is 22

I had one PC on my area and the other areas 2 and 2

So the box is empty before we start .

Our prisoner process unit is being dismantled and as such each oncoming shift is picking up most of the in custody prisoners sometimes 10/11 that need dealing with

I've seen a Sunday morning recently with 24 needing dealing with by the officers that are supposed to be responding to new jobs

Our divisions are merging .. For example my division is amalgamating with the other big division in our force .. But the projection is that the numbers policing the new division will only be what is currently policing half of it

Briefings are openly talking of "fire brigade" policing with cops having to across div boundaries and around the force to respond to jobs

The force will really really struggle .. and no I'm not scaremongering or bleating .. Just telling it how it is

[Derek Smith]

Earthdweller said:

My force is estimating that officer numbers will have dropped 50% by 2017 from 2010

It is creaking and on the very edge of breaking

Contrary to popular belief crime isn't down and neither is demand at all

We are increasingly relying on specials and pcso's to go to jobs as there are no regular bobbies to go

We are quite lucky at my nick that we have enough liveried vehicles and all have sirens .. Plain cars though are like rocking horse poo ... But then most of the fleet reduction has been targeted deliberately on plain cars

We are awaiting the budget figures in November to see just how bad it will get

It may well be that next year we wil have very few or no pcso's at all and massive culling of other civilian posts leaving just sworn officers

Staff and officers are leaving in droves of their own accord for example one of my friends left last week to retrain as a carpenter.

For example two weekends ago I was on lates at 5pm response paraded on 10 Pc's to cover the division .. Their minimum strength is 22

I had one PC on my area and the other areas 2 and 2

So the box is empty before we start .

Our prisoner process unit is being dismantled and as such each oncoming shift is picking up most of the in custody prisoners sometimes 10/11 that need dealing with

I've seen a Sunday morning recently with 24 needing dealing with by the officers that are supposed to be responding to new jobs

Our divisions are merging .. For example my division is amalgamating with the other big division in our force .. But the projection is that the numbers policing the new division will only be what is currently policing half of it

Briefings are openly talking of "fire brigade" policing with cops having to across div boundaries and around the force to respond to jobs

The force will really really struggle .. and no I'm not scaremongering or bleating .. Just telling it how it is

A friend who is still in the job said that a PC at his nick had enough of leave cancelled and home life - a couple of kids so no social life - ruined and went to train as an electrician. He said it was like briefing as there were two other officers there. Their little joke was that they mustered more than some divisions.

He said that most officers are looking for ways out. He knows of some opting for teaching and one a nurse.

Re your divisional amalgamations, my old town, now a city, had four divisions. It is now one and they are briefing less that the town centre briefed in my day, that's '97 I was last on division. As you say, early turns deal with prisoners that are left from nights (no overtime, or rather no paid overtime) and so they don't get out to arrest anyone for lates, so lates are cut to the bone.

On top of that, I supported the introduction of PCSOs to an extent, even writing a report on ways they should work. It is now a requirement for officers to be a PCSO for some years even to be considered for a permanent post. Now they have realised the 'two or three' they were promised is probably ten then are leaving. Not in droves, at least not in my old force, but they are struggling to keep experienced PCSOs who have a bit of gumption. There's no way of rewarding them.

Regarding minimum numbers, the minimum number of officers for mutual aid is never reached. Never.

Further, with the amalgamation of divisions, stations have been closed and so officers turn up at the 'central' station and then have a 40 minute drive to get to one of the old divisions. But it doesn't matter because no one goes there anyway.

It is, of course, an offence for police officers to tell the truth about how bad the situation is.

When policing is in need of major reform to just be able to cope, all the home sec wants to do is reorganise so that the figures look better. All she is worried about is becoming leader of the tories.

[Red Devil]

untakenname said:

This could easily be resolved by jailing those who are running around in emergency vehicles they aren't entitled to for either tax evasion or impersonating a Police officer and then sending the cars up north to officers that actually need them.

Geography 101.

BBC article said:

Devon and Cornwall, Merseyside, Humberside, South Yorkshire, West Yorkshire, Avon and Somerset, and Greater Manchester Police.

Last time I looked at a map of England those in bold are already there.
Or did you mean the cars should all be sent to Police Scotland?