Advice on dispute with a private school please
Discussion
We had a similar situation when our eldest moved to senior school and we had a change of heart on school choice. We were stung for a terms fees. I tried negotiation as we were only a few days off a terms notice and I was very happy to reach a compromise but they weren't interested. What they failed to account for was that my youngest was still at their school. They ended up losing several years of her school fees. Doh! Dealing with the leaders of this school about the matter revealed how limited they were and that the decision to move both children was the correct one.......
Thanks all for taking the time to reply. The general consensus seems to be I am a numpty and I hold my hands up to that! I generally try to do the right thing by people and treat them like I would like to be treated but sometimes I do get it wrong! 
I guess the only real reason I've hesitated and not just paid up is the school has been in no particular hurry to resolve this. After their initial letter asking for the balance of fees I asked them if they had filled the place and they took forever to come back saying they had not and promptly tried to charge me 1.5% interest per month for the time I'd been waiting. Frankly that does grate, and seem unreasonable.
Anyway, thanks again, and to respond to a couple of the specific questions asked....
You went into it knowing the private school was only ever a back up and didn't bother to assess the downside.
Strange you should post a thread now you've been 'served', did you just think it would go away after their earlier letters?
Anyway, there's a lesson here for your child on decision making.Careful up there on your high horse, it's a long way down! I suppose you read every line of those endless license terms and assess the downside before clicking Accept when you download some software? While clearly I am a bad parent and you are a perfect one. And yes, I honestly believed they'd filled the place and were chancing their arm - so I did think it would go away!
As for being wealthy, compared to some I don't do too bad, while compared to others I'm a pauper - it's all relative. 
Thanks again for taking the time to all who have replied!
I guess the only real reason I've hesitated and not just paid up is the school has been in no particular hurry to resolve this. After their initial letter asking for the balance of fees I asked them if they had filled the place and they took forever to come back saying they had not and promptly tried to charge me 1.5% interest per month for the time I'd been waiting. Frankly that does grate, and seem unreasonable.
Anyway, thanks again, and to respond to a couple of the specific questions asked....
pork911 said:
You went into it knowing the private school was only ever a back up and didn't bother to assess the downside.
Strange you should post a thread now you've been 'served', did you just think it would go away after their earlier letters?
Anyway, there's a lesson here for your child on decision making.
Vixpy1 said:
On a slight tangent..
I'm not saying the OP did this because i don't know the circumstances, but it pisses me off when wealthy familes try to get their children into the top state schools, usually by buying expensive houses nearby, denying a child from a less affluant background a place at a good school when they can quite easily afford a good private school but want to spend all their money on champagne, cocaine and holidays in the Bahamas.
Don't disagree. I know you weren't saying I'm in that category but for the avoidance of any doubt I've lived in this area since I was 2 years old, have never taken cocaine or been to the Bahamas, but I am quite partial to the occasional glass of champagne! I'm not saying the OP did this because i don't know the circumstances, but it pisses me off when wealthy familes try to get their children into the top state schools, usually by buying expensive houses nearby, denying a child from a less affluant background a place at a good school when they can quite easily afford a good private school but want to spend all their money on champagne, cocaine and holidays in the Bahamas.
As for being wealthy, compared to some I don't do too bad, while compared to others I'm a pauper - it's all relative. Pagey said:
OP's daughter starting school....
So Private Primary School (reception Year)
I would hazard a guess that costs are circa £1500 - £2k per term
What area of South East OP ?
Not that it's relevant. Just my idle curiosity
I'm in Hertfordshire, and yes reception. £3k a term and rising from there is the going rate around here for an OK private school. Some of the better ones are considerably more. Hence why everyone loses sleep over catchment areas and getting into the good state schools.So Private Primary School (reception Year)
I would hazard a guess that costs are circa £1500 - £2k per term
What area of South East OP ?
Not that it's relevant. Just my idle curiosity
Thanks again for taking the time to all who have replied!
R2FU said:
As it stands I have been served with a claim by the school's solicitors and things are currently on track to go to small claims court unless I work something out.
What notice did you give them?Have they confirmed they were unable to place a "reserve" child or any other child in that place for the first term?
Some light reading.. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Also, the value of the claim is sub 3.5k correct?
PM me with a scan of your contract OP if you want me to see if you have any traction.
As I mentioned previously, you've only mentioned two terms of the contract and one is so ambiguously worded it may be unenforcible, and the interest certainly isn't.
My guess is that they have not actually taken any claim like this to a hearing, or, they would have been informed of at least the latter.
As I mentioned previously, you've only mentioned two terms of the contract and one is so ambiguously worded it may be unenforcible, and the interest certainly isn't.
My guess is that they have not actually taken any claim like this to a hearing, or, they would have been informed of at least the latter.
ORD said:
I agree with BV72. At this stage, there's no real upside for the school in reaching a compromise.
Oh, there is. The school will not be awarded 18% PA interest. The school will still need to prove their case, which may very well be not as watertight as they think. The school will still need to pay the solicitor £100 per hour or whatever to follow it through.
On the small claims track the OP will not be liable for the school's legal costs as long as he does not behave stupidly.
Justin probably means well but he is, I suggest, acting irresponsibly by offering to give legal advice when he has no qualifications to do so, and is not insured to do so. He is possibly the worst person to take advice from as he is, according to his anecdotes here, relentlessly litigious and almost always suing everybody for something (I exaggerate, but not that much). He is the typical well meaning but unreliable amateur. Lawyers are insured and regulated. People on the internet who base their advice on something that once happened to them are not insured and not regulated.
Sheepshanks said:
JustinP1 said:
It transpired that it was their policy to interpret that 'a term' meant that it was the whole term before the term in question, plus the additional holiday in between.
I'm not sure how a terms' notice could be interpreted any other way?If the Easter term is 7 weeks, if you want to give notice before the Easter term you give 7 weeks notice right? Or not.
The bottom line is if you are writing a consumer contract and you want to enforce a liquidated damages clause where the consumer is losing thousands of pounds, you need to be a hell of a lot clearer than that in what actions will be construed as a breach.
As I've said, in my case the school's solicitors saw my challenge as enough to say goodbye to £6000 without even trying to negotiate for a few hundred quid.
Edited by JustinP1 on Thursday 17th September 22:27
Sheepshanks said:
JustinP1 said:
It transpired that it was their policy to interpret that 'a term' meant that it was the whole term before the term in question, plus the additional holiday in between.
I'm not sure how a terms' notice could be interpreted any other way?
As Justin said, the devil is in the detail.
ETA: beaten to it.
Centurion07 said:
A single school term = X weeks. A single school term PLUS holiday between it and the next term = Y weeks.
Hmmm...to my mind the variability is taken care of by referring to it a term. You'd need to give notice before the start of the previous term.It's also the standard notice period for teachers above a certain level who want to leave.
For new pupil offers I suppose they could set a specific date, but clearly this wouldn't be feasible for existing pupils.
Breadvan72 said:
Justin probably means well but he is, I suggest, acting irresponsibly by offering to give legal advice when he has no qualifications to do so, and is not insured to do so. He is possibly the worst person to take advice from as he is, according to his anecdotes here, relentlessly litigious and almost always suing everybody for something (I exaggerate, but not that much). He is the typical well meaning but unreliable amateur. Lawyers are insured and regulated. People on the internet who base their advice on something that once happened to them are not insured and not regulated.
BV, as much as I like you and your advice, I don't think that's fair on a number of levels:You might want to retract the 'relentlessly litigious' comment, as I share your view that legal action is a 'final straw' when discussion fails. However, if the other party is clearly in the wrong, I am not afraid to stand up for my rights, because I am able to. Indeed, in this example, my family was on the brunt of someone litigious - not the other way around. For clarity, on average, I've taken legal action against another party once every 5 years of my adult life. I'd hardly call that 'almost always'.
You could pick put a handful of posts on PH and piece together a convincing argument about me as a person. On the other hand, I would be able to pick out some of your comments, or indeed other's responses and opinions about you and play you through with traits that do not accurately portray you as person. I don't believe either is correct, or fair.
If I do give advice on here, whilst I have some specific education in a couple of niches in law, especially if someone PMs me, the first thing I say is 'I am not a lawyer, but...' and put whoever that is in the right direction and ultimately advise that they take their own legal advice.
Indeed, as you will know personally, I am more than happy to defer to professional advice. My offer to the OP is to look over the contract to see the context of the terms. I'm more than happy to bring forward any issues back to the thread.
I'd rather help the OP that say 'pay up' because he has come here for help. If he wanted to 'pay up' he wouldn't have bothered. Call me 'community spirited' or whatever, but I do believe that it is impossible to assess the contractual situation without viewing the contract.
As I've mentioned, my sympathy to whose who don't read contracts they sign is limited, however, I don't believe that 18% per annum interest charge on a liquidated damages clause in such a contract is lawful.
If I've not brought up a legitimate point so far, than say, but I'd prefer it if rather than categorising or belittling me you'd play the ball rather than the man.
I've offered to help the OP with things that do seem unlawful, and I've offered to read the contract. Will you?
Edited by JustinP1 on Thursday 17th September 22:24
Sheepshanks said:
Centurion07 said:
A single school term = X weeks. A single school term PLUS holiday between it and the next term = Y weeks.
Hmmm...to my mind the variability is taken care of by referring to it a term. You'd need to give notice before the start of the previous term.It's also the standard notice period for teachers above a certain level who want to leave.
For new pupil offers I suppose they could set a specific date, but clearly this wouldn't be feasible for existing pupils.
JustinP1 said:
You might want to retract the 'relentlessly litigious' comment ...
...on average, I've taken legal action against another party once every 5 years of my adult life. I'd hardly call that 'almost always'.
Yikes, that is even worse than I thought. I certainly don't retract my comment. If it bothers you, sue me. ...on average, I've taken legal action against another party once every 5 years of my adult life. I'd hardly call that 'almost always'.
Breadvan72 said:
JustinP1 said:
You might want to retract the 'relentlessly litigious' comment ...
...on average, I've taken legal action against another party once every 5 years of my adult life. I'd hardly call that 'almost always'.
Yikes, that is even worse than I thought. I certainly don't retract my comment. If it bothers you, sue me. ...on average, I've taken legal action against another party once every 5 years of my adult life. I'd hardly call that 'almost always'.
No, it doesn't bother me. If you're down for personal digs, then so be it. Personally I think your skills are better used discussing the facts. If i'm incorrect in anything Ive asserted, I'm happy to be corrected, for the good of the thread, and ultimately helping the OP.
Your advice is that the OP is 'bang to rights', presumably about the 18% interest on the damages too?
Ultimately, you are clearly more qualified than me in helping the OP, but you've made it clear you don't want to. Fair enough.
Edited by JustinP1 on Thursday 17th September 23:29
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