Merseyside policeman struck and killed by stolen vehicle.

[AB]

I've been following this story pretty closely as I'm local. The lad was bragging about what he'd done and apparently has been out of prison a matter of weeks, his 'girlfriend' appears to be of the opinion he's now some gangster and that she'll 'wait for him as long as she has to'.

You're quite right about the family being known and the house having been subject to a fair few drug raids etc.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1000099873...
https://www.facebook.com/philly.stuartnew.3?fref=t...
https://www.facebook.com/kimberly.lomax.77?fref=ts

Look up the group Wallasey Gossip on Facebook and you'll fear for the future of humanity.

[Scuffers]

Rovinghawk said:

Not bothering with the trial & ascertainment of the facts, then?

AB said:

I've been following this story pretty closely as I'm local. The lad was bragging about what he'd done and apparently has been out of prison a matter of weeks, his 'girlfriend' appears to be of the opinion he's now some gangster and that she'll 'wait for him as long as she has to'.

You're quite right about the family being known and the house having been subject to a fair few drug raids etc.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1000099873...
https://www.facebook.com/philly.stuartnew.3?fref=t...
https://www.facebook.com/kimberly.lomax.77?fref=ts

Look up the group Wallasey Gossip on Facebook and you'll fear for the future of humanity.

so, another career scumbag who has already caused a lot of pain and suffering, now has killed a Police Officer, but no worries, we much not pre-judge him as he's just misunderstood?

on reflection..

I do wonder if the Police/CPS/courts who have already dealt with him for his previous are now looking at themselves and thinking maybe if they had just done their jobs a little better, he would not have been at liberty to kill this officer...

Edited by Scuffers on Thursday 8th October 07:57

[Sheepshanks]

battered said:

Whereas the prosecution will be arguing that Stinger or not driving at that speed and in that manner in a built up area is highly likely to cause a death. The defendant is manifestly reckless of this fact (which in English law is as good as intent) and so who dies is irrelevant.

Doesn't the above pretty well define Causing Death by Dangerous Driving?

[MrBarry123]

Rovinghawk said:

MrBarry123 said:

Whilst they absolutely deserve it and I hope they remain in jail for the rest of their lives.

Not bothering with the trial & ascertainment of the facts, then?

Preferably not but I think it's inevitable so, so be it.

[Rovinghawk]

Scuffers said:

so, another career scumbag who has already caused a lot of pain and suffering, now has killed a Police Officer, but no worries, we much not pre-judge him as he's just misunderstood?

I'm quite happy about him being nailed to the nearest wall if guilty.

However- If we want to be claim the moral high ground we have to act the part. I don't want to part of a society where guilt is presumed. I'm better than that & I'd hope that you are too.

[rewc]

AB said:

I've been following this story pretty closely as I'm local. The lad was bragging about what he'd done and apparently has been out of prison a matter of weeks, his 'girlfriend' appears to be of the opinion he's now some gangster and that she'll 'wait for him as long as she has to'.

You're quite right about the family being known and the house having been subject to a fair few drug raids etc.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1000099873...
https://www.facebook.com/philly.stuartnew.3?fref=t...
https://www.facebook.com/kimberly.lomax.77?fref=ts

Look up the group Wallasey Gossip on Facebook and you'll fear for the future of humanity.

The top one is now closed with the message "Sorry, this page isn't available. The link you followed may be broken, or the page may have been removed."

[Scuffers]

Rovinghawk said:

Scuffers said:

so, another career scumbag who has already caused a lot of pain and suffering, now has killed a Police Officer, but no worries, we much not pre-judge him as he's just misunderstood?

I'm quite happy about him being nailed to the nearest wall if guilty.

However- If we want to be claim the moral high ground we have to act the part. I don't want to part of a society where guilt is presumed. I'm better than that & I'd hope that you are too.

that's not the point I was making.

how many times has he been charged/tried/convicted already?

why was he still on the streets to kill?

it's pretty obvious from the last reported car crash he did not give a monkeys about running people over...

[Rovinghawk]

Scuffers said:

it's pretty obvious

Not. Good. Enough.

[Scuffers]

Rovinghawk said:

Scuffers said:

it's pretty obvious

Not. Good. Enough.

I'll let you tell that to his widow and children.

[Durzel]

He's got a point though, it's an emotive subject but that doesn't mean we should forgo the usual processes of Law.

I'm really hoping the CPS dot the i's and cross the t's on this one. Besides the fact that murder is a very serious offence that will require a high threshold of proof, one would imagine that the judge will be particularly sharp on this one given the public interest. It would be tragic if the case got messed up somehow due to chain of custody or other avoidable errors.

[battered]

Eclassy said:

Does this law also apply to people who kill while driving fast in a built up area as part of their job?
.

If you mean the emergency services, yes it does. They are given discretion to break speed limits if necessary in order to carry out their duties and if driving within the speed limits would expose vulnerable people to danger, but they are still accountable to the traffic laws. I know of one policeman who had an attempted prosecution for breaking a speed limit on a blue light run. Apparently he was doing about 95 on the M25, in a marked car with everything switched on, when he was pulled over by a trafpol. He got off, but not until a thorough investigation had taken place.

[battered]

Sheepshanks said:

battered said:

Whereas the prosecution will be arguing that Stinger or not driving at that speed and in that manner in a built up area is highly likely to cause a death. The defendant is manifestly reckless of this fact (which in English law is as good as intent) and so who dies is irrelevant.

Doesn't the above pretty well define Causing Death by Dangerous Driving?

That's for the courts to decide after the CPS has assembled the case.

[Scuffers]

Durzel said:

He's got a point though, it's an emotive subject but that doesn't mean we should forgo the usual processes of Law.

I'm really hoping the CPS dot the i's and cross the t's on this one. Besides the fact that murder is a very serious offence that will require a high threshold of proof, one would imagine that the judge will be particularly sharp on this one given the public interest. It would be tragic if the case got messed up somehow due to chain of custody or other avoidable errors.

no, he hasn't.

if the Police/CPS/etc had done their jobs properly in the past, this event would simply not have happened.

it's all well and good going on about due process, the problem is when said due process is royally f**ked up on a regular basis with the end result being peoples increased misery and in this case death.

how about we start raising charges against the incompetent idiots that have dealt with this individual before?

Maybe if the CPS/Police are subject to prison terms for incompetence, they just might start to actually do their jobs RIGHT in the first place.

[Rovinghawk]

The solution to perceived past problems is not to abandon due process in the future.

[Scuffers]

Rovinghawk said:

The solution to perceived past problems is not to abandon due process in the future.

yup, and let's see how that pans out shall we?

best case senario is he get's sent down for what? 20 years?

So in reality he will be out before he's 30, and in the meantime, will have cost us all a medium sized fortune, just to start it all over again when released.

I would love to think Justice will be done, but I have no faith in that happening.

[agtlaw]

Scuffers said:

yup, and let's see how that pans out shall we?

best case senario is he get's sent down for what? 20 years?

So in reality he will be out before he's 30, and in the meantime, will have cost us all a medium sized fortune, just to start it all over again when released.

I would love to think Justice will be done, but I have no faith in that happening.

Actually, life is his worst case scenario - life being the only possible sentence for murder.

[agtlaw]

Scuffers said:

no, he hasn't.

if the Police/CPS/etc had done their jobs properly in the past, this event would simply not have happened.
...
Maybe if the CPS/Police are subject to prison terms for incompetence, ...

What exactly did they do wrong in the past in the instant case?

We don't have enough prisons for that.

[Scuffers]

agtlaw said:

What exactly did they do wrong in the past in the instant case?

We don't have enough prisons for that.

you tell me?

Last time back in March he stole a car, and ended up crashing it, almost wiping out several people, yet he is back on the streets in a matter of weeks to do one better.

It takes just a few seconds on Google to get a long list of previous, he's quite clearly a career criminal scumbag.

Please, tell me how what went on before is right?

[agtlaw]

Scuffers said:

you tell me?

Last time back in March he stole a car, and ended up crashing it, almost wiping out several people, yet he is back on the streets in a matter of weeks to do one better.

It takes just a few seconds on Google to get a long list of previous, he's quite clearly a career criminal scumbag.

Please, tell me how what went on before is right?

You're the person making the accusation. I just wondered in a case where the police arrested a suspect, investigated the offence, then charged a defendant who was prosecuted by the CPS leading to a conviction, where the incompetence was?

[anonymous-user]

agtlaw said:

Scuffers said:

you tell me?

Last time back in March he stole a car, and ended up crashing it, almost wiping out several people, yet he is back on the streets in a matter of weeks to do one better.

It takes just a few seconds on Google to get a long list of previous, he's quite clearly a career criminal scumbag.

Please, tell me how what went on before is right?

You're the person making the accusation. I just wondered in a case where the police arrested a suspect, investigated the offence, then charged a defendant who was prosecuted by the CPS leading to a conviction, where the incompetence was?

He can't tell you because he has no idea, he's just going to dig a big incoherent hole.