Merseyside policeman struck and killed by stolen vehicle.
Discussion
Scuffers said:
look, it;s all well and good for you wigged wonders to blame eeverybody else but consider for a moment, who is the cout?
Yes, it's more of you lot, Judges (and stipendiary Mag's) come from where?
yes, you know, that nice cosy legal profession.
for once, can you not just accept that YOU are part of the system?
Sentencing guidelines are overall controlled by government. Yes, it's more of you lot, Judges (and stipendiary Mag's) come from where?
yes, you know, that nice cosy legal profession.
for once, can you not just accept that YOU are part of the system?
As the government is selected by the people then you are also part of the same system.
Scuffers said:
look, it's all well and good for you wigged wonders to blame everybody else but consider for a moment, who is the court?
Yes, it's more of you lot, Judges (and stipendiary Mag's) come from where?
yes, you know, that nice cosy legal profession.
for once, can you not just accept that YOU are part of the system?
So what do you want to do? Keep everyone who may present a risk in prison forever? How big do you want the prisons to be and how much public money do you want to spend whilst we are still spending more, as a country, than we take in? Yes, it's more of you lot, Judges (and stipendiary Mag's) come from where?
yes, you know, that nice cosy legal profession.
for once, can you not just accept that YOU are part of the system?
JG5 said:
Sentencing guidelines are overall controlled by government.
As the government is selected by the people then you are also part of the same system.
so?As the government is selected by the people then you are also part of the same system.
where have I suggested they are not complicit?
asides that, one assumes they tale the recommendations of the attorney general at some point? is he/she not a member of the legal profession?
What I am getting at here is it's all well and good people going on about how bad this is etc, but how about doing something to change the situation?
I do not believe for one moment the current laws prevented him being dealt with previously in a more robust manner, just talking the last offence from March, please explain how the system dictated he would be inside for a matter of weeks?
La Liga said:
o what do you want to do? Keep everyone who may present a risk in prison forever? How big do you want the prisons to be and how much public money do you want to spend whilst we are still spending more, as a country, than we take in?
to some extent, YES!do you not understand the concept of deterrent?
IF we were much stricter and CLEARER, ie, you commit X crimes, you will be banged up for life (and I mean life, no exceptions) do you honestly think scrotes like this would carry on with their carefree criminal habits?
Now, I am sure some would (Dale Cregan for example), but so what?
Consider the numbers of people banged up for non-violent crimes, is that better use of our prison places?
Ask yourself this, which would you rather pay for, more prison places or more NHS costs (to deal with the victims), compensation payouts, insurance premiums, etc etc right up to widows pensions?
Scuffers said:
People like this should be un-acceptable to a civilised society, to keep banging on about their rights, due process etc
The PC died attempting to uphold the law & maintain a civilised society.Do you think it shows a great deal of respect that as a consequence you want us to disregard the law & act like an uncivilised mob?
I'm a very long way from being a police fanboy but on this occasion they have pretty firm tenure of the moral high ground. Your attempts to undermine this do not reflect favourably upon you.
Scuffers said:
Consider the numbers of people banged up for non-violent crimes, is that better use of our prison places?
Aren't the previous convictions you're referring to with this chap non-violent? Aren't they driving offences / acquisitive? Scuffers said:
IF we were much stricter and CLEARER, ie, you commit X crimes, you will be banged up for life (and I mean life, no exceptions) do you honestly think scrotes like this would carry on with their carefree criminal habits?
That approach doesn't deter lots of criminals in the US. They know if they murder a police officer they will face the death penalty or spend the rest of their life in prison, yet they still do it on a regular basis. The same with the 'three strikes' type laws. You're presenting simplistic pub-rant solutions to complex problems.
Rovinghawk said:
Scuffers said:
People like this should be un-acceptable to a civilised society, to keep banging on about their rights, due process etc
The PC died attempting to uphold the law & maintain a civilised society.Do you think it shows a great deal of respect that as a consequence you want us to disregard the law & act like an uncivilised mob?
I'm a very long way from being a police fanboy but on this occasion they have pretty firm tenure of the moral high ground. Your attempts to undermine this do not reflect favourably upon you.
What I am saying is it's about time our legal profession, police, Cps, etc took responsibility for doing their jobs properly.
They are there to serve and protect the public, not make excuses.
La Liga said:
Scuffers said:
Consider the numbers of people banged up for non-violent crimes, is that better use of our prison places?
Aren't the previous convictions you're referring to with this chap non-violent? Aren't they driving offences / acquisitive? he has a record longer than a long thing with a special reason to be long, from violence crime and drugs though theft, TWOC, etc etc etc...
he is not some first time offender with a spotless past.
Im not going to comment any further as it's clear some here simply refuse to accept that the system is broken and their responsibility for it's failures.
the police in question should be asking themselves what they could have done different so that one of their colleagues was not killed like this, forget the excuses, start looking for the solutions.
Edited by Scuffers on Thursday 8th October 18:15
Scuffers said:
Countdown said:
Scuffers said:
I know we are now using the privilege of hindsight, but I am pretty sure the local PC's know he's a complete low-life degenerate that was going to kill somebody sooner or later.
I know exactly what you mean. But for some strange reason CPS and the Courts won't accept the evidence of the Psychic Police at face value....
Countdown said:
Don't pick on me, I'm agreeing with you! I don't think you're a complete nutter. It's blatantly obvious to the Police and sensible people like me and you who (in our society) needs locking up. But point it out and you get labelled as swivel-eyed UKIP voting frother!! Its the corrupt judicial system with it's "evidence" and "witnesses" that needs fixing.
sorry, picked up on the wrong quote!and yes, you are right.
Scuffers said:
the police in question should be asking themselves what they could have done different so that one of their colleagues was not killed like this, forget the excuses, start looking for the solutions.
Why should they? All the apparently convictions you can find from Google are a product of the police gathering evidence for the CPS to present to a court. What should they do differently about that? Your great solution is to throw money at the problem the country hasn't got.
We don't have a problem with police officers being murdered in this country. Thankfully it's a rare event because of the 'system' you're keen to criticise.
Scuffers said:
it's clear some here simply refuse to accept that the system is broken
|http://thumbsnap.com/YrBm2jU9[/url]Scuffers said:
where have I suggested ignoring the rule of law?
What I am saying is it's about time our legal profession, police, Cps, etc took responsibility for doing their jobs properly.
They are there to serve and protect the public, not make excuses.
Hold on, you'e got me genuinely confused here. What have the police got to do with it? The police nick 'em and hand the case on to CPS or whoever, after that they're done. It's simply not the job of the police to be judge or jury, nor to set the laws or tariffs.What I am saying is it's about time our legal profession, police, Cps, etc took responsibility for doing their jobs properly.
They are there to serve and protect the public, not make excuses.
Willhire89 said:
If you really believe that the graph there represents the reality of today then you are deluded.
Because it doesn't show what you want / expect to see it's me who is "deluded". What are you basing your conclusions on? Anything scientific or just your opinion? Willhire89 said:
I would claim that those figures are massaged...
And I would claim you have no idea what you are talking about because you have no idea of the methodologies of things the the CSEW. La Liga said:
Willhire89 said:
If you really believe that the graph there represents the reality of today then you are deluded.
Because it doesn't show what you want / expect to see it's me who is "deluded". What are you basing your conclusions on? Anything scientific or just your opinion? Willhire89 said:
I would claim that those figures are massaged...
And I would claim you have no idea what you are talking about because you have no idea of the methodologies of things the the CSEW. Willhire89 said:
La Liga said:
Willhire89 said:
If you really believe that the graph there represents the reality of today then you are deluded.
Because it doesn't show what you want / expect to see it's me who is "deluded". What are you basing your conclusions on? Anything scientific or just your opinion? Willhire89 said:
I would claim that those figures are massaged...
And I would claim you have no idea what you are talking about because you have no idea of the methodologies of things the the CSEW. If it's not the case we had a peak of crime in the mid-1990s and it has declined ever since, show it to be the case. You surely can't be the only astute observer to dismiss data you don't understand, surely someone else has uncovered the truth i.e. dismiss it because it doesn't show what you want.
I am with scuffers on this one but the police have no blame whatsoever. They have done their job by nicking this scum time and time again and putting him before the courts. The judges are the ones who have failed in executing their duties.
In his last criminal endeavour he stole a car, took the police on a chase and crashed the car almost taking out innocent bystanders. Why was he out in a matter of weeks when he committed a violent crime?
Type fraudster jailed in Google and you'll find many stories of 1st time offenders convicted for financial fraud against big organisations and sentenced to up to 2 years in prison whilst this scum, a violent repeat offender was locked up for only weeks. Hell! A woman who received a stolen pair of shorts from the 2011 riots got 5 months.
It seems the government and judges in this country value money more than lives.
In his last criminal endeavour he stole a car, took the police on a chase and crashed the car almost taking out innocent bystanders. Why was he out in a matter of weeks when he committed a violent crime?
Type fraudster jailed in Google and you'll find many stories of 1st time offenders convicted for financial fraud against big organisations and sentenced to up to 2 years in prison whilst this scum, a violent repeat offender was locked up for only weeks. Hell! A woman who received a stolen pair of shorts from the 2011 riots got 5 months.
It seems the government and judges in this country value money more than lives.
We were discussing crime figures at work today - my force is currently recording around 2/3 of what we were recording 9 years ago thats despite recording everything that moves at the moment and forces were fiddling figures like hell all those years ago. We are currently over 20% up over last years figures but still well down on figures in the past. The makeup of crimes being recorded has changed - we are recording more fraud, harassment, communications (Internet, phone based crime) and sexual offences than ever before. Those figures arent as wrong as you may think not that this has any bearing on the subject of this post
Edited by Bigends on Thursday 8th October 19:54
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