Merseyside policeman struck and killed by stolen vehicle.

Merseyside policeman struck and killed by stolen vehicle.

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Discussion

wc98

10,334 posts

139 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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i consider myself an arse at times,but sometimes i read comments on ph that are beyond even my comprehension,the strange response above would be one of them .
condolences to the family ,friends and colleagues of this officer,no one should ever lose their life doing their job. hopefully the pick up driver is caught soon.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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RIP PC David Phillips, Thank you for your bravery and service.



julian64

14,317 posts

253 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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Also thought t a little odd that the Chief con would come on TV last night and admit they have no clue who the driver was, and nothing to go on.

Surely thats quite an ill advised thing for him to do if true. If I were the perp and heard that I would now be making for the airport knowing I have no chance of being stopped on the way out.

If the Chief con is lying, thats also quite a precedent for him to appear on TV and lie, isn't it?

AB

16,969 posts

194 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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charltjr said:
I'm from Wallasey, I know that bit of road well. I can see that it would be a good place to try and deploy a stop stick but cars can hit some serious speeds along that stretch so it's always going to be risky.

Very sad to see frown
Assuming the car was travelling towards Birkenhead Docks and not away from it then it would be perfectly easy to hit 100mph down that stretch after you've come around the relatively tight corner at the top, even in a pickup.

Although if the incident occurred where the flowers are placed just before the roundabout then I'm not sure it'd be all that safe to have a pickup blow out it's tyres at that point.

(I'm relatively local, how have I not spotted your Clio or Alpina about the place!?)

Elroy Blue

8,686 posts

191 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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AB said:
Assuming the car was travelling towards Birkenhead Docks and not away from it then it would be perfectly easy to hit 100mph down that stretch after you've come around the relatively tight corner at the top, even in a pickup.

Although if the incident occurred where the flowers are placed just before the roundabout then I'm not sure it'd be all that safe to have a pickup blow out it's tyres at that point.

(I'm relatively local, how have I not spotted your Clio or Alpina about the place!?)
Stingers and stop sticks don't 'blow out' tyres. They are hollow spikes that give controlled deflation of the tyre. They can't be deployed from vehicles and should ALWAYS be deployed from behind solid cover. In the heat of the moment it's easy to let your desire to catch the criminal override safety. However, the only person responsible for this death is the person who stole the pick up and chose to drive at the officer

Nors

1,291 posts

154 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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Mr GrimNasty said:
Very sad etc. but please lets not go through the dangerous job, constantly laying their life on the line, rubbish again.

Policing is a pretty safe job, way down the list of dangerous occupations.
What an appropriate username!!

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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AB said:
(I'm relatively local, how have I not spotted your Clio or Alpina about the place!?)
I moved South many moons ago to be with my wife and for better job opportunities, I don't get back nearly as often as I'd like.

Garybee

452 posts

165 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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Interesting that the police are referring to this as murder. When cars are used as weapons against other road users would it not naturally follow that that would be attempted murder?

Sheepshanks

32,519 posts

118 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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Garybee said:
Interesting that the police are referring to this as murder.
Just emotive language. If they catch the guy it's pretty unlikely he'll end up being charged with murder.

No Bend

591 posts

121 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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Garybee said:
Interesting that the police are referring to this as murder. When cars are used as weapons against other road users would it not naturally follow that that would be attempted murder?
Really? Is the concept that hard to understand?

Murder - someone is killed by another intentionally. i.e. someone is now as a result dead from the actions of another.

Attempted murder - a person attempts to kill another intentionally. i.e. no-one is dead from the others actions despite the attempt.

No Bend

591 posts

121 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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Sheepshanks said:
Garybee said:
Interesting that the police are referring to this as murder.
Just emotive language. If they catch the guy it's pretty unlikely he'll end up being charged with murder.
I doubt he'll be charged with shoplifting.

Most likely will be charged with murder but convicted on manslaughter. Depending on circumstances though.

julianc

1,984 posts

258 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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Vandenberg said:
RIP PC David Phillips, Thank you for your bravery and service.
+1.

agtlaw

6,680 posts

205 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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No Bend said:
Really? Is the concept that hard to understand?

Murder - someone is killed by another intentionally. i.e. someone is now as a result dead from the actions of another.

Attempted murder - a person attempts to kill another intentionally. i.e. no-one is dead from the others actions despite the attempt.
Murder is intentionally causing serious harm to another person - and they die. The offender does not have to intend to cause death.

Attempted murder is harder to prove - as the prosecution must prove intention to kill.


Willy Nilly

12,511 posts

166 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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Baryonyx said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
Very sad etc. but please lets not go through the dangerous job, constantly laying their life on the line, rubbish again.

Policing is a pretty safe job, way down the list of dangerous occupations.
Ha, you must be joking. I'm guessing you missed the part where he was murdered whilst doing his job?

Perhaps your car will be stolen, would you rather the police did nothing to get it back if they had the chance to? We're lucky to have braver sorts than you looking after us, at least.
Go and do some research on dangerous jobs and have a look where being a police officer is. My job is in the Champions League every year

No Bend

591 posts

121 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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Willy Nilly said:
Baryonyx said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
Very sad etc. but please lets not go through the dangerous job, constantly laying their life on the line, rubbish again.

Policing is a pretty safe job, way down the list of dangerous occupations.
Ha, you must be joking. I'm guessing you missed the part where he was murdered whilst doing his job?

Perhaps your car will be stolen, would you rather the police did nothing to get it back if they had the chance to? We're lucky to have braver sorts than you looking after us, at least.
Go and do some research on dangerous jobs and have a look where being a police officer is. My job is in the Champions League every year
That may be the case, but do people actively seek you out to cause you harm? Is it your job to run towards dangerous situations rather than run away?

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
quotequote all
julian64 said:
Also thought t a little odd that the Chief con would come on TV last night and admit they have no clue who the driver was, and nothing to go on.

Surely thats quite an ill advised thing for him to do if true. If I were the perp and heard that I would now be making for the airport knowing I have no chance of being stopped on the way out.

If the Chief con is lying, thats also quite a precedent for him to appear on TV and lie, isn't it?
The press statement will have consideration for the investigation strategy. They are only ever going to be thinking of saying things which will benefit the investigation.

Willy Nilly said:
Go and do some research on dangerous jobs and have a look where being a police officer is. My job is in the Champions League every year
Again, the HSE captures but a fraction of policing injuries, which is where the data to define dangerous is primary from.

I know three people in the past couple of months. Two have had torn tendons resulting in surgery and 6 months off, and the other who has damaged his cartilage in his knee, meaning it won't ever be right again. All from arrests / assaults and these injuries that aren't captured by the HSE.

If we're defining 'dangerous' as purely fatalities, then yes, policing is not as dangerous as quite a few occupations. But then that's a slightly too-narrow-a definition since in some years that would show estate agents as an occupation being more dangerous than policing.

It's not a pissing contest, but it's important to realise the limitations of the data I've posted about twice now.

Garybee

452 posts

165 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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No Bend said:
Really? Is the concept that hard to understand?

Murder - someone is killed by another intentionally. i.e. someone is now as a result dead from the actions of another.

Attempted murder - a person attempts to kill another intentionally. i.e. no-one is dead from the others actions despite the attempt.
You have failed to understand a post and then tried to start an argument based on that failure to understand. Please direct your arguing at someone else, I'm not interested.

Sheepshanks

32,519 posts

118 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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No Bend said:
That may be the case, but do people actively seek you out to cause you harm?
We don't know that happened in this case. The thief saw the stinger and tried to drive around it - not an unexpected occurrence. The Officers probably weren't wearing hi-viz in an effort to conceal the stinger's deployment.

This seems to be a gross failure of management. In a world where police officers can't do all manner of things for health & safety reasons who on earth thought putting them unprotected in front of stolen vehicles was a good idea?

No Bend

591 posts

121 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
quotequote all
Garybee said:
No Bend said:
Really? Is the concept that hard to understand?

Murder - someone is killed by another intentionally. i.e. someone is now as a result dead from the actions of another.

Attempted murder - a person attempts to kill another intentionally. i.e. no-one is dead from the others actions despite the attempt.
You have failed to understand a post and then tried to start an argument based on that failure to understand. Please direct your arguing at someone else, I'm not interested.
Yeah, why would I want to argue with a fool. Jog on.

No Bend

591 posts

121 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
quotequote all
Sheepshanks said:
No Bend said:
That may be the case, but do people actively seek you out to cause you harm?
We don't know that happened in this case. The thief saw the stinger and tried to drive around it - not an unexpected occurrence. The Officers probably weren't wearing hi-viz in an effort to conceal the stinger's deployment.

This seems to be a gross failure of management. In a world where police officers can't do all manner of things for health & safety reasons who on earth thought putting them unprotected in front of stolen vehicles was a good idea?
That wasn't referring to this particular case, was in reply to this belter's claim …

Willy Nilly said:
Go and do some research on dangerous jobs and have a look where being a police officer is. My job is in the Champions League every year
I don't think getting in front of a stolen car in in the health and safety manual. Like someone said earlier, in the heat of the moment it's possible the rule book isn't remembered as it should be.

As it stands, some young bloke went to work and didn't make it home. Yes, other jobs may have higher rates of injury or deaths, but this was a direct result of someone breaking the law and trying to evade police. So whatever you think of police or how they do their job a young family has lost their father/husband.